Netjets New Payscale

[Diesel]

You want to take pot shots at us which is easy to do all day long when you're not doing your own job.

Let's see this week i had a release to an airport that was closed and an airport that had a closed runway which means we had to use the short runway which we didn't have the numbers for.

Guess who caught the mistakes?

 

[hydrarkt]

Cmon Diesel... they're doing their job. I mean, all I had to do was jump the fence at a closed FBO after landing late at night. I only had to call the company to arrange for the limo because the company arranged rental car for the owner was unavailable due to the closed rental office. I only then had to jump the fence to get back to the airplane and then again to get off the field... That's not too bad, is it? But it's ok to the dispatcher because he got to walk down to his car and drive home to his wife and kids and sleep in his own bed and not have to deal with an irrate owner because somebody else who was "doing his job" screwed up.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Whats up dsptchrNJA? No response to my post! I don't see you offering up part of your salary to help out poor old Netjets. How about you working more days for RTS to help out the bottom line. You love to make determinations on what is fair for the pilots. I believe you and everyone else at netjets should be paid market wages. I really don't want to see a worn out post about fractional wages comparisons or that netjets isn't profitable.

From monster.com:
Columbus, OH Dispatcher

50% percentile $34,688
75% percentile $41,196

Columbus, OH Small Jet Captain

50% percentile $96,749
75% percentile $115,096

5th Year Netjets Captain $60,984
63% of what a 50 percentile small jet captain makes
53% of what a 75 percentile small jet captain makes


How does that look for a dispatcher at netjets?
63% of $34,688 = $21,853 or
53% of $41,196 = $21,833

I really hope you are making more than 21k a year. If you don't my apologies.

The new pay proposal still doesn't come close to these values, even working 30 plus days more than we do now. I really hope you can see the smoke and mirrors that the company is pushing.

Sun Tzu - I noticed that you pulled your Dispatcher statistics off of the truck driver section at monster.com. Why didn't you disclose that piece of information when you posted it?

For the record, here's the job description that matches the salary data you posted:

[font=Verdana,arial]Dispatcher[/font]: [font=Verdana,arial]Assigns drivers and vehicles to convey freight or passengers. Coordinates drivers according to customer requests in compliance with DOT regulations and company rules; communicates with customers to determine driver needs and schedules and notifies drivers of assignments; enters assignment data in computer database. Requires a high school diploma with 2-4 years of experience in the field or in a related area. [/font]

[font=Verdana,arial]Do you really think this is an accurate description of what the Dispatchers do in the flight center?[/font]
[font=Verdana,arial][/font]
[font=Verdana,arial]As for your Pilot salary data, IMO a better choice for reference would be airlinepilotpay.com, which yields the following data for a 5 year captain:[/font]
[font=Verdana,arial][/font]
[font=Verdana,arial]NetJets...............60,984
CitationShares..... 63,996
FlightOptions....... 66,372
FlexJet............... 70,737

Delta................ 115,440
American........... 112,128
United................ 93,600
Continental........ 116,640
US Air............... 100,224
America West..... 115,128
JetBlue.............. 101,640
ComAir................ 61,200
Pinnacle.............. 55,800
[/font]

 

[BoilerUP]

Pretty sure the numbers he used for 5 year CA were NBAA numbers for pilots based in CMH.

I would say they are pretty relevent for that reason, and the fact NJA compensation should not be based upon an RJ driver, but that of a pilot flying similar class aircraft out of a similar (or same) city.

 

[dsptchrnja]

You want to take pot shots at us which is easy to do all day long when you're not doing your own job.

Let's see this week i had a release to an airport that was closed and an airport that had a closed runway which means we had to use the short runway which we didn't have the numbers for.

Guess who caught the mistakes?

... But it's ok to the dispatcher because he got to walk down to his car and drive home to his wife and kids and sleep in his own bed and not have to deal with an irrate owner because somebody else who was "doing his job" screwed up.

Nice job on catching the mistakes.

Diesel, Why do you criticize me for taking so called "pot shots" and then in the following sentence make condescending remarks?

Either of you, name one post where I have criticized your job as a pilot. I could point out some very serious errors, that I caught as early as this morning, but I will not stoop to your level and try to demean the NJA flight crews whom I respect. If you want to be paid as a professional start acting like one instead of making school yard insults to people who serve you at work. Last I knew grown-ups can disagree on issues without making it personal.

 

[FamilyGuy]

First off let me say I "don't care" if NJ has the money to pay me or not. If they can't pay they should not be in business. Owners will fly these aircraft somewhere, and it is already happening to some degree.

The question whether NJ has the money to pay is relevant. You may not be interested in flying for the current wages or whatever is agreed upon in the new contract, and you are free to leave if you dont feel it meets your satisfaction, but the hard truth is that there are 8,000+ pilots on furlough right now that would probably be very interested in flying for the current rates or the new ones. The fact that NetJets rates are not that far from the other fractionals and many airlines and they have a proposal for raises between 23-40% shows that they are being competitive for pilot talent.

That being said, I am still here fighting because I believe the money is there...here are a few examples:

1) We pay more for FSI classes then Jet Aviation does
2) The whole Oil thing in HPN
3) Every owner is insured for the full hull on the aircraft even though they only own a share. Who is the owner of the insurance compnay? BH.
4) A 5% increase in owner fees in Oct 2001 would of paid for ADJUSTED NBAA pay with 100% retro. It wound generate about 150 mill a year, or about 7.5% of the 2 billion in revenue....the company is not going to give up 7.5% of return without a fight.

#1 - Dont make claims and not back it up with facts. I've asked in other posts for someone to show me our FSI rates vs someone else that gets a better rate. In this case, what is our rate, and what does Jet Aviation pay?

#2 - I've seen so many references to this oil thing in HPN that I decided to do a little research. It looks like we did about 7000 flights into HPN last year. If every single flight took a quart of oil (unlikely, IMO) then at most EJM would generate $350,000 in revenue (not profit), given the claimed price of $50/qt.

This seems like a lot, but then I asked a simple question....what does it cost to run our facility in HPN? What's the total cost, when we start thinking about wages for staff, utilities, insurance, mortgage (or lease) cost, etc? I dont know what that cost is, but I dont think it would be cheap in New York.

The next question is how many things can NetJets charge for to try and recoup all those expenses?

I dont know the answer to all these questions, but after thinking about it, I dont think EJM is making much money, if any, at HPN.

#3 I didnt think BH was doing aviation insurance, but its possible. What BH company is insuring the aircraft? General Re? Certainly not Geico....

#4 seems like you've got a lot of pricing info for someone who hasnt looked at the company books. What's your source?

Like it or not, even the fractional world is competitive. We are already the most expensive provider....would our owner base support an additional 5% premium without going somewhere else?

 

[FamilyGuy]

Pretty sure the numbers he used for 5 year CA were NBAA numbers for pilots based in CMH.

I would say they are pretty relevent for that reason, and the fact NJA compensation should not be based upon an RJ driver, but that of a pilot flying similar class aircraft out of a similar (or same) city.

The Monster.com website says that their salary info comes from Salary.com, not the NBAA.

And I agree that NJA compensation should be based on pilots flying similar class aircraft out of a similar (or same) city, which is why I posted the rates for Citation Shares, Flight Options, and FlexJet, which is the best comparator out there for our market niche.

 

[Sun Tzu]

Familyguy, you missed the point I was making! It doesnt really matter how much a dispatcher makes at netjets. The point of the demonstration was to see the comparison between percentages. I have not bad mouthed the dispatcher profession, flight managers, or anyone else at netjets. I think it takes a complete team to make things work! I'm am sorry that I missed the truck dispatcher reference, it was not an intentional dig. We are teamsters you know LOL!

 

[Some Dude]

United employees did serve on the board but I believe the pilots did NOT have a voting right on the board.

 

[hydrarkt]

NJA non-bargaining employees tend to be more content with their pay and benefits, do not suffer greatly from false hopes and expectations, and generally don't have bitter feelings towards the company from a sense of being underpaid, or cheated - all resulting in greater satisfaction and QOL.

Dude, you're the one pointing out your better QOL, not me. You brag about non-bargaining employees being all happy and love their QOL. Well, while you non-bargaining employees are happy, it's us bargaining employees that are dealing with and being held responsible for the mistakes of the non bargaining employees... you don't get it and never will. It's not your fault. You just have no idea what goes on on the road.

 

[Diesel]

Dispatcher- Sorry i re read my post and realized i came across to strong. I apologize. My anger was more at family guy and you got caught in the middle.

I do believe the dispatchers at NJA are being overworked. That's why their are mistakes. They are few and far between but we are human. If dispatchers were fleet specific and also had a lot more of them we would be better off.

 

[Some Dude]

Dispatch is overworked so are most of the departments in the casino. I really do feel sorry for most of them. This management team is a wreck.

 

[GVFlyer]

United employees did serve on the board but I believe the pilots did NOT have a voting right on the board.

The Chicago tribune article that I posted eariler in this thread said that they had two voting directors on the board and more importantly:

Under United's ESOP, the pilots and machinists unions had veto power over major decisions--[and] most important, who ran the place.

GV

 

[VmaxFlyR]

Who is Netjets?

The question whether NJ has the money to pay is relevant. You may not be interested in flying for the current wages or whatever is agreed upon in the new contract, and you are free to leave if you dont feel it meets your satisfaction, but the hard truth is that there are 8,000+ pilots on furlough right now that would probably be very interested in flying for the current rates or the new ones. The fact that NetJets rates are not that far from the other fractionals and many airlines and they have a proposal for raises between 23-40% shows that they are being competitive for pilot talent.[End-Quote]


Question:
Why did Netjets atttempt to raise newhire pay, outside (above) current rates, if these 8,000+ furloughed pilots SHOULD have been more than glad to get any flying job, as you state?

What kind of employee should Netjets want to attract, and keep? Committed, long term employees, or those just looking to wait out their furloughed time? Stable companies need stable employees, no?

I thought Netjets preferred "career employees"...if not at least be honest enough at face value, like the commuters were, to represent that Netjets is just a "stop along the way."

 

[Sun Tzu]

8000+ out of work pilots??? Where are they? Last I heard there was only 116 new hires for the year. Netjets must be real picky or they just can't find new hires that want to work 17 day a month for 27k with no upgrade in sight. I have 3 friends that are former airline pilots, that will not come to work at Netjets for the money they are offering. They say they can stay home and make more money and be home every night. Yes, we could leave and go to work somewhere else. Most of us are waiting to see what the contract ends up being. If it doesnt meet what we are looking for, then I'm sure there will be alot of people leaving immediately and a bunch more over the next year. It's easier to find a job if you already have one! This whole contract mess is just business, nothing more, nothing less. If you take it personally then you have no business working for a company that uses Union labor. For all the casino employees that feel threatened by the Union, I'm sure you could go work for CS or Flops!

 

[dsptchrnja]

Heard this week from a training Capt. that we are getting an influx of United pilots and the interview classes are full. Many of these pilots are 16,000+ hour retired guys who are just itchin to fly. Welcome!

 

[VmaxFlyR]

Heard this week from a training Capt. that we are getting an influx of United pilots and the interview classes are full. Many of these pilots are 16,000+ hour retired guys who are just itchin to fly. Welcome!

What a "pleasure" it would probably be to fly with a "retired" (disgruntled?) United guy, whom after a long career, with plans of a nice retirement, foiled by pay and pension cuts, is forced back into the cockpit after age 60...I'm sure they'll be thinking: "this is sure some retirement I got..."

 

[Sun Tzu]

More hearsay from a casino worker. I really doubt there are very many 16000+ hour united guys coming to work here at netjets. If it is true then all the better. We have some of the most active union volunteers that are retired United Captains. They know what they are worth and have been through union busting tactics again and again and are not scared easily. I would rather see 500 retired United pilots than 500 first time CFI's that are just happy to be in the right seat of a shiny new jet. The seniority list will show the facts in the coming weeks.

 

[G4dude]

More hearsay from a casino worker. I really doubt there are very many 16000+ hour united guys coming to work here at netjets. If it is true then all the better. We have some of the most active union volunteers that are retired United Captains. They know what they are worth and have been through union busting tactics again and again and are not scared easily. I would rather see 500 retired United pilots than 500 first time CFI's that are just happy to be in the right seat of a shiny new jet. The seniority list will show the facts in the coming weeks.

Yep! They ruined United, now they can help ruin NJA, jumping off the ALPA broken down nag onto the Teamsters' equally destructive bunch of hooligans.

 

[Sun Tzu]

G4dude, you should move to management if you are not there already. Thinking like that has put the aviation industry in the toliet. Blame labor, blame the pilots, blame this, blame that. When management points a finger at pilots for causing a company to fall they have 3 fingers pointing back at themselves. Unions and organized pilots are not the problem! Last I checked, Southwest Pilots and Flight Attendents were unionized and I don't see their management blaming them for the current situation. There are more examples of poor leadership and bad management decisions than there are of Unions ruining an industry or company. It is real easy to make labor the vilian, while hiding mismanagement of resources and poor decisions.