Netjets New Payscale

[dsptchrnja]

Who gives a SH1t if the company is profitable or not.

The pilots cost X amount of dollars. That's the cost of doing business. We want our X amount of dollars. The company can figure out how to pay for it.

Did you tell the company that in your interview? Or did you change your mind after you agreed to work for X amount of dollars?

 

[FAcFriend]

You are absolutley correct about the company spinning and having an agenda. You are also correct about the Union having an agenda, however, its agenda is the mandate given it by the Member/Pilots.


x- This is right out of the pilot union hand book. "mandate, transparency." etc. Please, evaluate the situation a little better than this.

"I want my husband to work. I hate that he has to pass up a 25% raise because union bullies won't allow him to make another choice. But everytime a union family comes out and says "hey, this is not my first choice" we are slammed and threatened personally."

Few union people know that you have to belong to the union but you do not have to pay ALL the dues. You have choices. They are scary choices because I know that if you chose to pay reduced dues that do not include the ad budget, then everyone will know and you will be subject to the mob mentality.
But a few families are stepping up, saying settle this, and lets take what we can right now and work on the next contract.

Unfortunately, your transparent, mandated union won't give them a voice.

 

[FAcFriend]

When determing the proper pay raise for crews, the union doesn't need to see any financials from EJM, NJI, NJE,

I don't agree. The negotiating team does need to consider the profits of all of Netjets in order to effectively determine pay wages for the pilots.

The pilots do have the clout and ability to look beyond. That is the beauty of a union shop. There are many drawbacks to a union, this is one of the upsides.

Ford has MOPAR, their parts and service division, even fast food groups- European Divisions pay US divisions for things like Accounting fees etc.

What we havent seen here is what NJE pays NJA or NJS -
The pilots negotiations team needs all the information to make sound judgements- Give it to them and move on-

 

[dsptchrnja]

I don't agree. The negotiating team does need to consider the profits of all of Netjets in order to effectively determine pay wages for the pilots.

I could agree if "all of Netjets" included EJM, NJI, NJE and FLIGHT SAFETY, ETC. But they are not NJA Companies, they are BH. So isn't Dairy Queen and Geico. I agree they are relevent only to the degree that cash is coming or going from them directly to and from NJA - but all that shows up on NJA financial balance sheets.

Each BH company must survive on it's own - even NJE (eventually). NJA's expectation is to provide an annual 7% return to BH. Pilots salaries are based off NJA financials alone. Are you saying that if Flight Safety has a boom year that NJA salaries should be affected? I realized there is a conspiracy theory out there that NJA is charging it's sister companies more to funnel money into them so they can cheat the pilots out of more pay. As far as I'm concerned it is just that - a theory with an agenda.

 

[BoilerUP]

As far as I'm concerned it is just that - a theory with an agenda.

I have no dog in this fight (other than knowing a couple NJA pilots and a couple flight followers) - but if the company would allow the union access to the books they want to see, we would TRULY see if it was "just a theory with an agenda". What does NJA have to hide from their "valued" crewmembers?

Anything less than NBAA average is unacceptable, IMO.

 

[Sun Tzu]

Let's tell EJM we can't pay the price for ramp fees, oil, O2.

Let's tell the catering vendors we can't pay the prices because we are not making any money.

Let's tell Cessna, Raytheon, Gulfstream, Dassault that we can't pay those prices for those expensive jets because BH needs his profit.

Let's tell Signature, Altantic and other FBO's we can't pay for ramp fees and fuel because we are not profitable.

Doesn't make sense! Why then would the pilots agree to the same BS!
It's the cost of doing business

 

[dsptchrnja]

I have no dog in this fight (other than knowing a couple NJA pilots and a couple flight followers) - but if the company would allow the union access to the books they want to see, we would TRULY see if it was "just a theory with an agenda". What does NJA have to hide from their "valued" crewmembers?

Yah, I think it could come to that. But then there is the issue of the union to sign a non-disclosure that has to be delt with. Not to mention the time it takes for a third party to obtain, and fully prepare reports for not 1 company - but now at least 5 companies... it's going to be a long year

 

[VmaxFlyR]

FamilyGuy:

Now you sound like Rick Dubinsky.....gonna wring the last golden egg out of the goose...that paid off in the long run...

If you believe that United's, or for that matter Delta's or American's, current financial situation is a result of "pilot wages" you probably need to spend a little less time on this board, and a little more time doing your union busting research. United's losses/total debt are in great excess of TOTAL pilot compensation.

I guess Mr. Dubinsky is also responsible for the underfunding of the now defunct United pensions, eh? Ya, he probably had something to do with that pension plan over at USAirways, too!

The only clear comparison here is both company's often near-sighted, wasteful (mis)management and disregard for their passengers/owners. Because of the "contract based" relationship with its owners, this will be allowed to happen more slowly at Netjets than it did at United.

Hopefully the folks in Columbus will wakeup (at Buffet's and Santooli's guidance?) and turn it around before it's really too late. Once customers/owners are lost, all will be lost...

 

[FAcFriend]

[B]But then there is the issue of the union to sign a non-disclosure that has to be delt with.[I - dispatcher

First- the only person not to sign the non disclosure was the mec chair. The negotiating team did sign.

If the MEC chair doesnt feel comfortable (for any reason) participating in the negotiations, that is ok. He understands he cannot dictate the work of the negotiation team and only have part of the information, otherwise he would not be a good leader.

I am sure in the coming weeks the MEC chair will get out of the negotiation process and let his team do their best work or get fully vested in the process and know his pilots will trust his work.


Ps we both know that the relationship between NJE and Dairy Queen and the pilot union are not the same-

 

[FamilyGuy]

FamilyGuy:

If you believe that United's, or for that matter Delta's or American's, current financial situation is a result of "pilot wages" you probably need to spend a little less time on this board, and a little more time doing your union busting research. United's losses/total debt are in great excess of TOTAL pilot compensation.

I guess Mr. Dubinsky is also responsible for the underfunding of the now defunct United pensions, eh? Ya, he probably had something to do with that pension plan over at USAirways, too!

The only clear comparison here is both company's often near-sighted, wasteful (mis)management and disregard for their passengers/owners. Because of the "contract based" relationship with its owners, this will be allowed to happen more slowly at Netjets than it did at United.

Why are you blaming management for all of United's troubles when the airline was 55% employee owned, and largely controlled by the unions...to the extent that the unions had seats on the board of directors?

The unions used that control to give themselves the highest wages in the industry, why didnt they use that control to make sure the pensions were adequately funded?