Netjets New Payscale

[Hogprint]

I think you answered your own question Vmax. The company tried to raise the newhire rate, no strings attached, because it was the right thing to do and they want committed, long term employees here.

The right thing to do is negotiate in good faith on a new CBA that raises ALL employees rates...no strings attached.

You will then return to long term committed employees.

 

[dsptchrnja]

The only thing misleading on this forum is you familyguy. A 5th year captain is only going to see about a 8.2% raise. Even at 40% an new FO will only be at $37,800 with no upgrade in sight. I didnt see anything in the proposal that gave a 40% raise. A 10 year Captain will never make what a new JB captain makes. It is not a bunch of Union militants that are making misleading and disparaging attacks. That is coming from you. We are just telling our side of the story to counter the lies being spread here. You have no credibility and you never will.

In all fairness FC employees don't see all the details of the negotiated contract. Just what the company has posted. And the company is held accountable by you, the pilots for that information that we see. If there were false statements they would readily show up in places like this forum. All this to say the 23-40% figure came from one of your fellow pilots in this post. If it is incorrect you have the right to refute it. No one really did when he posted it:

Yes, it was two different offers. The first had six figures in it but we lost all of the bennies, insurance 401k etc...afraid not...

Second was the one they sent out to all. It was somewhat lower with the bennies back in, looked like a step in the right direction to me, except for no bidding of schedules AT ALL. I guess you just start your 6 on 6 off or 6 on 4 off and work it for the rest of your Netjet career. Doesn't work for me. Pay wise looked like a 23% increase for 6n6 and around 40% if I want no life on the 6n4.
Mute point though, this has turned into a battle of egos for both sides and neither will agree to anything just to spite the other...JMHO.

NJA Non-bargaining employees probably should stay away from initiating or responding to debates about what is meant to be between the company and union since we generally don't have all the information to make informed statements. But if crews are going to post information such as the quote above in a public aviation forum, be prepared because people are going to use it.

 

[FAcFriend]

we generally don't have all the information to make informed statements. -dispatcher


OMG- Are we supposed to be making informed statements here??
No wonder noone likes my posts!!

 

[dsptchrnja]

we generally don't have all the information to make informed statements. -dispatcher


OMG- Are we supposed to be making informed statements here??
No wonder noone likes my posts!!

LOL

 

[dukeofdub]

"How many times do we have to tell you people that we refused to look at the books that they offered. THE COMPANY REFUSED TO SHOW US THE BOOKS THAT WE REQUESTED TO LOOK AT. Why don't you ask the company what they have to hide by not showing US the books we want? I will tell you......A SH!T LOAD OF HIDDEN MONEY THAT THEY DON'T WANT US TO KNOW ABOUT. That is why we will strike.

So instead of being pissed at us, why don't you direct some of that anomosity towards the company, for they are the reason we will strike. Ergo, their fault.

MORONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I swear!!!!!!!!!!! It is not that difficult!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK, I vented, now.......

There is nothing you can do to change OUR minds. We are fighting for OUR pay, OUR families, OUR lives, because this is what right in OUR hearts. Not YOURS. Someday you will figure this out. What we are doing is not personal towards you. But we have taken this personal from the company, ie RTS, because we can see past the company BS and the propoganda they put forth. Unfortunatley you either choose not to or do not have the abililty to.

It amazes me that the bickering between us is even an issue. We know what solidarity is and would support you without question if you decided to be paid an AVERAGE wage for what you do.

We are not asking to be the highest paid, just in the AVERAGE range for what we fly and what we do. I could understand your point if we demanded to be paid THE premium wage for which everyone else wanted to attain.

This will be over someday, hopefuly soon. In the end though, we will still be working together as co-workers, we will still have to talk to each other and deal with each other. We are professionals as are you. We need to remember this because when it is said and done we are still on the same team.

Respectfully, ce750drvr"

It is good to see the Union coming back to the Bargaining table. The Company has offered to show you all the NetJets Inc. books and has tried to communicate their position quite clearly. So lets all hope that we are getting closer and that there will be an agreement in the near future. Nobody likes all the bickering and we are still on the same team. If you believe that everything from the Company is propoganda then you have to understand that everything the Union says is propganda. It is and you know it. You just don't want to hear anything except what you think is right.

It will be over someday and the tone will become more civil. It does no good to call each other names, and it does no good for pilots to go on a campaign of damaging the company. That will lose the respect of everybody, and you know it.

Everybody wants fair wages, but you have to decide what is fair, what is right and where you want to work. Do you expect anybody to believe your statement about the books you asked for? I think not. I would have expected more from a professional.

 

[VmaxFlyR]

My understanding is that the current proposal has raises ranging from 23% to 40%, depending on seniority and position, with the larger number going to the new hires. If 23% is the minimum raise, then I think that meets the definition of 'sizable'.

Do your figures account for the 7-12% raise pilots get every year? Everyone knows no pilot is making the same amount he or she was making in 1998 just because a new contract hasn't gone through.

You're missing the point...unless 5 year, or what ever year pay you want to talk about , is Indexed, in REAL Dollars, the pay, and standard of living for that pilot receiving that pay will decline...get it?


http://www.aier.org/cgi-aier/colcalculator.cgi


Again:
Then that guy who will be a 5 year Captain 3 years from now will be looking at probably a -3% (decrease) to a +14% (increase) in Real Wages in 2008...

Is that same guy going to have to work more days for that raise? How about working any more hours in a day?

What about the status of his benefit package?


The devil is often in the details--could be a reason the netjets pilots aren't too excited about that latest proposal!

 

[FAcFriend]

You're missing the point...unless 5 year, or what ever year pay you want to talk about , is Indexed, in REAL Dollars, the pay, and standard of living for that pilot receiving that pay will decline...get it?

I think we all get the point. BUT- you are missing the point as well-
unfortunately you have not had a pay raise other than the raise for seniority for years-

So now you are living on pitiful pay-

30% will raise your standard of living. today. real money - real dollars.

 

[VmaxFlyR]

You're missing the point...unless 5 year, or what ever year pay you want to talk about , is Indexed, in REAL Dollars, the pay, and standard of living for that pilot receiving that pay will decline...get it?

I think we all get the point. BUT- you are missing the point as well-
unfortunately you have not had a pay raise other than the raise for seniority for years-

So now you are living on pitiful pay-

30% will raise your standard of living. today. real money - real dollars.

Your statement is true, but you ignore 2 facts:

1) Contracts and wages are comparisions that are also historical--the comparison here is to a (old) 1998 pay scale. If the goal is to simply keep pace with the standard of living from 1998, then the proposal would be sufficient. I think that what the pilots want is an increase in their standard of living from where they were in years past--hence the NBAA comparisions.

2) Again, what ever you pay a 5 year captain today, call him Capt. A, if in 3 years you pay that same amount to a guy who is TODAY 3 years junior to today's 5 year guy (currently 2 years seniority, following me?), call him Capt. B,
poor Capt. B's standard of living will be less than what Capt. A's was when he was a 5 year captain, today. $100k won't buy the same livestyle in 2008 as it will today, get it?

I realize you may not have the benefit of years of experience in the aviation industry, but I'm surprised that you don't know that unionized crew member's salaries ARE generally indexed, as well as including annual "aniversary" increases...of course if Netjets can get away without protecting the standard of living of Capt. B, more power to them, but I don't think that the current union seems as "green."

 

[nerdpilot]

just wondering how many guys at net jets told management they love to fly so much that they will work for crappy wages and pay for there job????

 

[FAcFriend]

I realize you may not have the benefit of years of experience in the aviation industry, but I'm surprised that you don't know that unionized crew member's salaries ARE generally indexed, as well as including annual "aniversary" increases...of course if Netjets can get away without protecting the standard of living of Capt. B, more power to them, but I don't think that the current union seems as "green."

Agreed, again on all the above points.

Key points- generally.

Plus we must remember the entire business climate is different today then a couple of years ago- It is a better time for pilots to negotiate. three years ago we were in a recession- five years ago a new industry. Now investors are wondering can NetJets cross the chasm to long term viability.

It is interesting to watch.

 

[FamilyGuy]

I realize you may not have the benefit of years of experience in the aviation industry, but I'm surprised that you don't know that unionized crew member's salaries ARE generally indexed, as well as including annual "aniversary" increases...of course if Netjets can get away without protecting the standard of living of Capt. B, more power to them, but I don't think that the current union seems as "green."

Vmax - you really should make up your mind as to what group you want to compare yourselves to.....

Is it going to be the unionized airlines or the non-unionized NBAA jobs?

It appears that you want to cherry pick the best attributes of both areas and also retain your current advantages that may not be present in the other areas....

 

[Some Dude]

Family Guy being the company mole again.

 

[ce750drvr]

It is good to see the Union coming back to the Bargaining table. The Company has offered to show you all the NetJets Inc. books and has tried to communicate their position quite clearly. So lets all hope that we are getting closer and that there will be an agreement in the near future. Nobody likes all the bickering and we are still on the same team. If you believe that everything from the Company is propoganda then you have to understand that everything the Union says is propganda. It is and you know it. You just don't want to hear anything except what you think is right.

It will be over someday and the tone will become more civil. It does no good to call each other names, and it does no good for pilots to go on a campaign of damaging the company. That will lose the respect of everybody, and you know it.

Everybody wants fair wages, but you have to decide what is fair, what is right and where you want to work. Do you expect anybody to believe your statement about the books you asked for? I think not. I would have expected more from a professional.

Not really sure which direction you are coming from. You are correct, I shouldn't call people names. That is what being cooped up in a cockpit will do to you sometimes. For that I apologize. My post is from the source. I have a friend who is on the negotiating team. He has been a long time "brother figure" to me. What he tells me is truthfull. I trust him with my life and he feels the same. I don't expect anyone to believe me. I was ranting because of the "inside" privilage that I have.

Don't really understand the "more from a professional" either. Again, it was just an irritated rant that I have since cooled off from.

Look, this is business. I wouldn't expect anything less from the company. Get us for as cheap as they can. We will try to take as much as we can. The negotiating team understands this as well. Unlike most of the pilot group, the negotiators are NOT taking this personally. They know that this is how the game is played. True professionals they are for understanding that. They have the ability to keep emotions out of it. I, on the other hand, couldn't do what they do. I would have beat the crap out of someone across the table already. I know it is not right, but I would have a hard time keeping the emotions out. That is why they are there and I am here.

Still confused though about where you are coming from.

 

[FAcFriend]

That is what being cooped up in a cockpit will do to you sometimes. For that I apologize.

Sorry I dont buy it. Most men and women who are cooped up in a cockpit understand how to have basic manners when they get out.

Poor manners are just that and it has nothing to do with your profession. It has everything to do with choice.

 

[Lie_n_wait01]

Schrode do i know you

The "new pay scale" that is being negotiated will provide a benefits package and pay that will allow a pilot to attain a quality of life and security for his/her career at NetJets without jeopardizing the financial standing of NetJets or Berkshire Hathaway. It will also provide a good working enviornment where safety and stability is a key factor in providing Service Excellence to our owners, passengers, their guests and families. With this "new pay scale" NetJets will be the leader in Fractional Ownership for the long term, and will become "the place" for pilots to aspire to be for an aviation career.

Without the "new pay scale", NetJets will become just another place to work, until you can go somewhere else. Much like the Regional Airline Industry is today.

Hey Schorde way to go on the "New Pay Scale" Question. I have to say that you sound a little managerial in your response...so i know you?? perhaps a name change is in order. Your cover is blown!!!! BANG

 

[Dixon Cider]

That is what being cooped up in a cockpit will do to you sometimes. For that I apologize.

Sorry I dont buy it. Most men and women who are cooped up in a cockpit understand how to have basic manners when they get out.

Poor manners are just that and it has nothing to do with your profession. It has everything to do with choice.

I think it was tongue-in-cheek on his part. I think you are too stupid to realize that.

 

[Lie_n_wait01]

Are you talking to me

I think it was tongue-in-cheek on his part. I think you are too stupid to realize that.

I assume your talking to me...im stunned.

 

[DBCOOPER]

Boy am i glad i don't work for Netjets. Sounds like a complete mess by the sounds of all of you.

Good luck gentlemen.

 

[Lie_n_wait01]

You know i have to ask one simple question.....and yes im pissed! What is a standard of living???? Since when is ti the Companys responsibilty to "Provide you with a standard of living"? I always under the impression that it was the workers job to provide his own "Standard of Living". In other words saving money, investing, etc. If ya cant manage 30, 000 boys trust me youll never manage 50, 60, 70 or hundred..enough said!!!

 

[DBCOOPER]

I have nothing to do with Netjets, I mostly read these threads for the humor factor once in a great while....but the above post is the stupidest darn thing I've ever heard. Boy - you're either really young and dumb, or you haven't been in the working world very long.

Now before you fire back, don't waste your time b/c the last thing you'll get from me is a back and forth argument.