NetJets Integration

[RustyFan]

And how about your actions of posting this individuals name on a public message board?.

Negative. Olsen is a member of management and should have made a better judgment call. When he uses an "old neighbor" to spread his blab, he exposes himself to everyone.

Montgomery sent those emails to 50+ pilots knowing full well they would circulate, and they did. With names and dates right on them! So let the chips fall where they fall, and let the people who sit in power know when they speak to neighbors before they speak to their employees, it PISSES US OFF!

 

[CastofThousands]

Wow. This was a short honeymoon. A little longer than Obummer, perhaps, but short nonetheless.

And, BTW, I don't think I've ever seen most of these communications.

No, sir - no honeymoon and wouldn't want one. Same group of people I had differences with in my previous role. Some will eat their young, it's just the way it is. We do what's best for the masses and press on.

The point is to highlight even in these times they don't get it - never will and the rest can't wait for them to catch up.

That's always been the case. Point was made - moving on.

Respectfully,

.

 

[BeeDubya]

I'm waiting for NJASAP to rip into this circle jerk and set the record straight.

I'm not sure what part of this you want NJASAP to wade into. We were happy to work with GPAC. Now that they have dissolved, we will be announcing a new NJI working group to accomplish, basically, the same thing. If you have any other specific questions, please ask.

NJASAP is still working to develop a comprehensive contact list for NJI pilots. In the meantime, the Integration Team is happy to answer any questions NJI/NJA/NJLA crewmembers may have. Contact information can be found on njasap.com. Additionally, we encourage NJI pilots to complete the contact information form found in the Integration Section of the website.

Sincerely,
Brian Ward
NJASAP Integration Team Leader

 

[RNObased]

All,



With all due respect, if anyone believes NetJets (or any other company for that matter) has an ounce of fat to spare for too long – they are disconnected from the brutal realities. Every company is fighting to retain existing jobs (NetJets has done exceptionally well), forget about new job creation – for now. While the market is shrinking, what’s important is the gain in existing/available market share. It's more competitive (pricing and service) than ever. In essence gaining in market share as the market shrinks. This requires business adjustments and a cohesive, dedicated, and enthusiastic/optimistic workforce. Economy of scale has pros and cons; the purchasing power can be significant. But, to change course is much more than turning an aircraft carrier, it’s like turning a fleet. We have many “ships” at NetJets, but with challenges come opportunities.

Well Cast,
I will try and make this as simple as possible after wading through the piles of commas and sentances that were this post. This isn't the time for dancing around the facts.

First of all maybe we won't be having this conversation if we didn't hire so may MANGEMENT people into NJA?? Is that something you have thought about??

I'm waiting for your response, you may think we are dumb or don't know what you know, that would be a mistake.

 

[RustyFan]

A quick study of the RLA will show how rediculous what you wrote is.

Who said anything about the RLA. NJI pilots will comply fully with the tenants of the RLA and the NMB which oversees it. A quick study of anti-union tactics will show how you're playing the game. Sat nothing in public and leak everything behind the curtain. Who around here is going to believe anything you say... You left NJASAP as the President to work for the CEO? Go to bed Bill, you've played pilot monopoly for the last time.

NJASAP IS the certified bargaining agent and a letter campaign can't/won't change that.

Once again, your total lack of inside knowledge concerning the NJI pilots and our will is hilarious. NJI pilots never tried to start a new union, its jus the opposite, we're trying to get into NJASAP as fast as we can.

I have always answered every email and phone call from every pilot - openly and honestly! That will never change - nothing to hide from. I've lived this stuff for too long. Simple stuff,

Good for you Olsen, keep blabbing that hole of yours and lets see how long it takes RTS to cut your golfballs off.


Obviously one of two things is happening here.

1. Your arrogance extends beyond our solar system and NetJets senior managmement has no clue of your stupidity here on Flight Info. You couldnt keep a secret if your life depended on it.

-OR-

2. NetJets senior managment does know what you are doing and are therefore telling what to say and when to say it... Thus showing you're a puppet getting the strings pulled for a little extra cash and showing we NetJets pilots can once again, NEVER TRUST A COTTONPICK'N THING MANAGEMENT SAYS.

 

[squonk]

Well Cast,
I will try and make this as simple as possible after wading through the piles of commas and sentances that were this post. This isn't the time for dancing around the facts.

First of all maybe we won't be having this conversation if we didn't hire so may MANGEMENT people into NJA?? Is that something you have thought about??

I'm waiting for your response, you may think we are dumb or don't know what you know, that would be a mistake.

Notice the difference between the "decoder" posts and the personal email's tone. Quite telling.

I agree, now is not the time to beat around the bush (oh god, now I've gone and done it) but time to get everyone informed about what the current outlook is for the short term.

 

[Diesel]

When will the term synergy be thrown around? Or maybe we can use some other corporate speak that makes us sound better.

I find it interesting now that we are being told to contact BO instead of NJASAP with our integration concerns. Hmmmm someone trying to run an end game?

I thought this place was too desperate housewives? Oh well I guess its like a car crash that you just can't look away from. Hell I want to drive into a god damn bridge abutment.

This whole process is starting to pile up on the freeway. (I've decided using automobile references instead of whipped mules is more current) From the GPAC breakup, to little information coming out of both sides, to people telling us we know whats good for you. Hold on boys we're going for a ride. We might be kicking the tires on a lot of this stuff but once and a while the bumper falls off when you do. (Sorry I couldn't use a mule analogy)

Respectfully,
D
(An excellent pilot and a better used car dealership owner)

 

[realityman]

A quick study of the RLA will show how rediculous what you wrote is.Why? I don't think Gruman was claiming that GPAC would do any BARGAINING for NJI. Couldn't anyway. But they would have been a voice for the NJI pilots to communicate with NJASAP and management. I think all Gruman meant was that it's important to have a voice that speaks directly for the NJI pilots, one that ISN'T management, no matter how well management may have gotten along with them before. In the end, management has management's best interests in mind, not the pilots'.

I met Dave once for a cup-o-joe in the winter of 2007 - good conversation.A totally useless comment to deflect attention from the real issue brought up. Did you write those emails to Dave Montgomery? If so, it sure looks like it was meant to be read by more than a good friend. The structure and prose are very appropriate when addressing a group. It certainly lacks the informality and brevity that you'd expect when one is informally answering a question posed by a curious neighbor. Interestingly enough, those emails were far more readable and understandable than the "transparent" emails you used to write to the membership of NJASAP, although still full of useless hyperbole.

NJASAP IS the certified bargaining agent and a letter campaign can't/won't change that.I don't get the impression that anyone was trying to change that. GPAC was trying to make sure the NJI pilot's concerns were heard in the process. A reasonable request. I never heard anyone here say they wanted to bargain for anything. So again, another deflection.

I have always answered every email and phone call from every pilot - openly and honestly!Riiiight. Sort of like we had all thought you'd gone back to flying the line after IBB. Admittedly, I don't think anyone had thought to ask you directly if you were, in fact, back on the line, so can't really say you lied about that. But you sure weren't open and forthcoming in volunteering any info about what was going on with your status in the months following IBB. And not one little peep about any imminent move to management. Yep. Very open and honest. That will never change Exactly! Which is why I think you'll find fewer people trust you these days than used to. - nothing to hide from. Maybe not anymore. That remains to be seen. I've lived this stuff for too long. So why keep doing it? "Too long" implies it's time to give it up. Come on back to the line! After all, how many people can claim to have virtually personalized LOA's that allow them the full benefits of being in management AND a line pilot?

Simple stuff, It's certainly getting to be that way.

It is what it is......

 

[FLYLOW22]

Pathetic broken record... for the record.

It is what it is... a turncoat.

 

[BeeDubya]

This whole process is starting to pile up on the freeway. (I've decided using automobile references instead of whipped mules is more current) From the GPAC breakup, to little information coming out of both sides, to people telling us we know whats good for you. Hold on boys we're going for a ride. We might be kicking the tires on a lot of this stuff but once and a while the bumper falls off when you do. (Sorry I couldn't use a mule analogy)

Respectfully,
D
(An excellent pilot and a better used car dealership owner)

Diesel,

The wheels are not coming off the bus (sticking with your autos metaphor ). I cannot speak for the company or disclose what they are doing publically, but I know they are working the project. At the same time, so is NJASAP. The breakup of GPAC caused a bit of a glitch that required some re-thinking and re-planning. As I mentioned earlier, we are on the cusp of announcing the result of that adjustment. Some of the other projects have also hit speed bumps. No big deal, we are adapting, modifying and pushing forward.

All the while information is being sent to those who have current information with the Union (e.g., short, bi-weekly information pieces), the website is being updated in repsonse to pilot input, email questions are being answered, three major communication projects have been intiated (two are planed for roll-out next year as we get close to the "final integration notice" the other in the next 2 months), etc. Two of the biggest impediments to our communication with NJI pilots is not having all NJI pilots' contact information and not having direct, in-person contact (like the Monday night meetings in CMH). Both are being addressed.

Keep the faith, my friend.

Fraternally,

Brian

 

[fob727]

a simple question

BW, as an outsider looking in, I have one simple question. Why won't management provide the contact information?

 

[jppt2000]

impending ICOM

All (tic),
In the next few days, I would not be surprised to see an ICOM, telling us: please do not argue with known members of the OFFICE OF THE CHAIRMAN, or NJASAP union officials on anonymous internet message boards.
IMHO are we getting close to ethics violations here?
All the best (tic)

Cast should know this better than anyone else, facts are very stubborn things.

 

[CastofThousands]

A righteous labor word from a few who aren't all that righteous. Interesting.

Almost comical to those who know better.

Thankfully there are many who look at the totality of the issues and in a few short years the group as a whole went from near bottom, to the top.

Of course that was because of a few 'righteous' players I see here? Not exactly.

So far what's clear is that many of the same people are ignoring reality, again. That won't change. Many of the few embrace management/managers when mangagement/managers can serve their interests and labor/lavor leaders when they can serve their interests. I watch it every day - watched it years ago and I still see it now. They know who they are - they are known to managers and labor leaders. But as I've said, they can continue to pretend.

The righteous indignation going on here and the issues that have been raised here - are you serious? It isn't about me or you, it's about the group as whole. Get over it/yourself; move on. It's the few people who missed all the progress that was made for the many. The good news is they usually get there. The bad news is they tend to get their late.

90% and growing see what has been accomplished over the past 5 year as exceptional. The goal is to keep preserve it and do what we can over the next 5 years - especially with all that's at risk. But, read the thread and look at what's on the mind of the few... Not worth too many calories - I might have at least given this stuff a courtesy listen a few years ago. Botton line - I know better than 90% don't associate with the snap shot here. I know them well. I talk to them constantly. I stay in touch as always. But some feel the louder they get the more progress they make - not true, but they just keep yelling.

Yes. That's the reality - the righteous aren't all that rightious. And, who cares about you and me?

Best Regards,

.

 

[BeeDubya]

BW, as an outsider looking in, I have one simple question. Why won't management provide the contact information?

The company isn't required to and since NJASAP does not become the bargaining agent for NJI pilots until the end of the process, the company could encounter other problems by distributing pilot information to third parties without the pilots' consent. Additionally, we do not conduct Union business via company communication channels (e.g., email accounts) to protect both parties.

Good question, though, fob727.

Brian

 

[CastofThousands]

All (tic),
In the next few days, I would not be surprised to see an ICOM, telling us: please do not argue with known members of the OFFICE OF THE CHAIRMAN, or NJASAP union officials on anonymous internet message boards.
IMHO are we getting close to ethics violations here?
All the best (tic)

Cast should know this better than anyone else, facts are very stubborn things.

Nothing wrong with a healthy discussion. No question it should be "respectful discourse."

As long as the facts are the facts, no concerns here. What has been posted here falls in the "not exactly." No need for me to argue about it here, most know better. We can't all agree or be friends - that's life.

I would think people would want to focus on the important stuff - like how do we keep as many pilots flying as possible for the short and long term. Clearly not on the minds of a few. Very directly, it never was on their mind.

Respectfully,


.

 

[BeeDubya]

All (tic),
In the next few days, I would not be surprised to see an ICOM, telling us: please do not argue with known members of the OFFICE OF THE CHAIRMAN, or NJASAP union officials on anonymous internet message boards.
IMHO are we getting close to ethics violations here?
All the best (tic)

Cast should know this better than anyone else, facts are very stubborn things.

I have no problem with healthy and respectful discourse. Nor do I object to differring points of view. I do feel that respect and courtesy are important.

Fraternally,

Brian

 

[Diesel]

hteous' players I see here? Not exactly.

So far what's clear is that many of the same people are ignoring reality, again. That won't change. Many of the few embrace management/managers when mangagement/managers can serve their interests and labor/lavor leaders when they can serve their interests. I watch it every day - watched it years ago and I still see it now. They know who they are - they are known to managers and labor leaders. But as I've said, they can continue to pretend.

I guess its called being cynical and knowing that you can only serve one master. You answer two someone else now, no big deal and you did what you had to do. You don't have my best interests in mind anymore. Its that simple. You answer to the boss man and if he doesn't like what you're doing you'll change your stance, not the same if the pilots don't like what your doing. Please don't tell me any different I'm not that naive.

As long as the facts are the facts, no concerns here. What has been posted here falls in the "not exactly." No need for me to argue about it here, most know better. We can't all agree or be friends - that's life.

Not exactly was the limbo time you spent between the contract being finished and your movement over to the office of the president. It was a grey area that timed up perfectly during the elections. At least you got on and said you were thinking of going, your partner just packed up in the middle of the night and left.

I question everything. So I really perk up when all of a sudden you're on the FI spreading the word of BO.... you gotta wonder.

Super Respectfully,

D

 

[RNObased]

Nothing wrong with a healthy discussion. No question it should be "respectful discourse."

As long as the facts are the facts, no concerns here. What has been posted here falls in the "not exactly." No need for me to argue about it here, most know better. We can't all agree or be friends - that's life.

I would think people would want to focus on the important stuff - like how do we keep as many pilots flying as possible for the short and long term. Clearly not on the minds of a few. Very directly, it never was on their mind.

Respectfully,


.

You know Cast, I'm all for keeping pilots flying as much as possible, all of us are and painting us in any other light is wrong.

However my issue is with CMH, and the people that kept hiring and hiring, when it was apparant to most that we weren't flying as much as normal. If a pilot screws up he/she has to answer for it, no one ever answers for anything in CMH.

 

[squonk]

Diesel posted;

I question everything. So I really perk up when all of a sudden you're on the FI spreading the word of BO.... you gotta
wonder.

Why yes I do wonder?

Nine posts by CofT in this thread and not one communique' via Blackberry...

From him or anyone else in the brain trust the last two months for that matter.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Many are begining to realize that the "golden calf"
may have actually been made of wood, stuffed with sawdust and covered in very, very thin gold leave.

This doesn't diminish my sincere appreciation of what was accomplished in the past. It just makes me realize that we are all human.... for better of for worse.

 

[CastofThousands]

You know Cast, I'm all for keeping pilots flying as much as possible, all of us are and painting us in any other light is wrong.

However my issue is with CMH, and the people that kept hiring and hiring, when it was apparant to most that we weren't flying as much as normal. If a pilot screws up he/she has to answer for it, no one ever answers for anything in CMH.

No disagreement here. I made it clear I have/had concerns with the recruiting, interview, hiring process and the numbers/timing. It was as clear then as it is now.

As far as screw ups - I am all for higher standards and more accountability. That's what every healthy organization needs.

As for the period between May and August - it's fair to say I offered a lot of stability to an unavoidable and very unstable situation.

So here we are - it's about where we go from here. Some tend to sit on the sidelines and throw stones, others roll up their sleeves.

Again, it's where we go from here - after the economy "fell off the cliff" that concerns me/many. We need to keep pilots flying, accross the industry.

We need stability and recovery. Crew Integration and Operational Excellence efforts underway will go a long ways. I am sure there is more that can be done.

As for serving masters - some are comfortable just serving an idea/vision/goal - and don't serve any masters. I respect that may be hard for everyone to understand.

Best,

 

[fischman]

You know Cast, I'm all for keeping pilots flying as much as possible, all of us are and painting us in any other light is wrong.

However my issue is with CMH, and the people that kept hiring and hiring, when it was apparant to most that we weren't flying as much as normal. If a pilot screws up he/she has to answer for it, no one ever answers for anything in CMH.

Are you talking about those in the interview rooms, or the ones who said we need to hire 400 pilots?

 

[RNObased]

Are you talking about those in the interview rooms, or the ones who said we need to hire 400 pilots?

What do you think?? If you don't know it is the later.

 

[fischman]

What do you think?? If you don't know it is the later.

If there is anyone who is aware, it is me.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

As someone who held the office of "Union Servant" I can speak with personal history as I express my thoughts on this wildly twisting thread.

Appearance and impression are quite possibly the cornerstones of any leadership position if one wishes to have a positive effect on "moving" people. In obtaining this level of success all leaders must know their own limits and be submissive to the "protocol factor". While we wish we could say this or that because we feel that way... we must learn to keep quiet.

I cannot speak to Bill Olsen's personality or his abilities to perform in the position he has been appointed too as I have no personal knowledge of this man. But what I can say as a soldier on the front line that has access to radio, he has made a clear blunder in choosing to communicate with NJI pilots in this manner. And as such has created an air of uncertainty about who he is and what his goals are.

It goes beyond reason why someone in his position would choose to make his first and official contact with NJI pilots through a personal email. And then to use the terms like "spoon feeding slowly and deliberately" (very insulting to a professional pilot). Before any pilot at NJI knew anything about the LOA, Bill Olsen or the union... We get an email circulating around the water tank that basically describes his whole playbook for the game. And not once, but twice! All the while still no official statements from our management team or Bill Olsen himself. Then again here on Flight Info, the most notorious grenade throwing chat board on the planet (this place is the National Enquirer of Pilot Websites). The average line guy is simply going to question these tactics because they themselves wouldn’t choose them. Its really that simple.

And here in lies the image issue I described above. While his intentions may be sincere (I’m not saying otherwise), his actions go contrary to standard business protocol leading the average pilot to believe something other than what he is stating is really happening.

I personally believe for this integration to have positive effects for the pilots, NJI pilots need to say “adios Okatie management, we appreciate the good times and good memories” and NJASAP needs to take full control of the integration and set the tone.

If there ever was a more appropriate quote for NetJets Pilots during this integration its “Divided we Fail”.

 

[jppt2000]

Wolfpack,
I have a few questions,
How long have you been at NJI?, don't be specific but how many years?
Did you know before you came to NJI that there was a possibility that a single carrier might evolve?
I keep reading about the voice NJI pilots want in the integration.
In your opinion, what is the major point the NJI pilots want to make?
Respectfully,
NJA line pilot

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Wolfpack,
I have a few questions,
How long have you been at NJI?, don't be specific but how many years?

4 years this month.

Did you know before you came to NJI that there was a possibility that a single carrier might evolve?

Absolutely not. I was hired prior to 2005 contract coming into play.

In your opinion, what is the major point the NJI pilots want to make?
Respectfully,
NJA line pilot

I dont think there is any one particular point we want to make, but rather we have the desire to participate in the process. I have and will continue to advocate for NJI pilots the need for NJASAP to work with NJI pilots outside of the LOA in preperation for the final integration notice. We have internal issues which need to be address (and can be). This can prove to be a very very positive thing for NetJets pilots. If NJI pilots are going to be dues paying members of NJASAP, we need to be proactive about the process and make the tranisition smooth. I like to think of this time as being available to "pre-position" people so when the curtain goes up... everyone is in place and knows their lines.

 

[jppt2000]

4 years this month.



Absolutely not. I was hired prior to 2005 contract coming into play.

Thanks for your candid answers.
Please don't take this as flame bait,
but if I may ask a few more questions

So you're saying you didn't know that there was 300+ non union folks and 1800 + union folks working for the same company?

You didn't notice the EJA folks parked next to you, and wonder why we were all so upset?

It never occurred to you the union folks would want to close the scope issue you could drive a G-550 through?

Not to mention the incredible waste and inefficiencies of TWO ops centers, along with the fantastic management teams that went along with both of them?

Did the G-200 coming to EJA cause you any concern?
I airlined on an RJ and sat next to an NJI crew that went on and on about the G-200 coming to EJI, because it was a Gulfstream product.


I don't think there is any one particular point we want to make, but rather we have the desire to participate in the process. I have and will continue to advocate for NJI pilots the need for NJASAP to work with NJI pilots outside of the LOA in preperation for the final integration notice. We have internal issues which need to be address (and can be). This can prove to be a very very positive thing for NetJets pilots. If NJI pilots are going to be dues paying members of NJASAP, we need to be proactive about the process and make the tranisition smooth. I like to think of this time as being available to "pre-position" people so when the curtain goes up... everyone is in place and knows their lines.

Were the pilots at NJI approached to join the union? pre 2005, 2006?

Stick with me here, you essentially want representation without paying any dues?


I have to agree with Cast, it seems he's warning us the house is on fire and we're occupied with leveling the pictures on the walls.
We all need to close ranks and eat the sandwich made for ALL of us to enjoy (tic).

 

[BeeDubya]

Stick with me here, you essentially want representation without paying any dues?

You have to remember that the Union's position in a representational dispute (single carrier) is that we are or should have been the bargaining agent for the whole (single) carrier. Additionally, at the end of the process, we will all be under one roof (Union). I do not see anything wrong with involving the NJI pilots in the process. Of course, the Union has a Duty to represent its membership and will not place greater weight on future members than it does on current ones.

Sincerely,
Brian Ward

 

[FL510GV]

This thread is amazing!

As the Dread Pirate Roberts said to the Sicilian in the midst of a game of wits, to the death, "truly, you have a dizzying intellect!"

PS: ______ is one of the lower 48 (47), so I truly understand his bitterness, but not his unprofessionalism.