Netjets Gv Pay

[TurboJetCpt]

I am glad NJA pilots have a very good deal, by the way. I also feel they would have gotten a good deal years ago if the union had not been hanging spectre-like over the procedings. Just my opinion, and I am not always right.

And once again, you don't have a single clue. Get educated before spewing your ignorance...you know nothing.

 

[RTRHD]

And once again, you don't have a single clue. Get educated before spewing your ignorance...you know nothing.

And same to you.

 

[Majik]

I also feel they would have gotten a good deal years ago if the union had not been hanging spectre-like over the procedings. Just my opinion, and I am not always right.

Is that just something you pulled out of your butt or do you actually have an argument to back up that opinion?

 

[G4dude]

Is that just something you pulled out of your butt or do you actually have an argument to back up that opinion?

I just pulled it out of my butt, as you so eloquently put it. Years of studying economics and decades of observing union and non union shops, and the differences in how disputes are handled have convinced me that unions are the wrong answer to the right question, which is "how do we accomplish a better workplace?" The right answer being management's desire to avoid attrition and keep a motivated, productive workforce which will allow the company to change as the market changes. Unions just coerce and obstruct, and tend to feed into the most negative feelings of the biggest complainers, which tend to be the least productive employees anyway. Unions reward sloth and mediocrity, which means long term malaise and death to a company. See Delta and Pan Am and Eastern and...
Maybe if I become informed, instead of vaporing kneejerk opinions, I will become a union guy! If I do, you will be the first to know.

 

[old*art]

Just be thankful you have never been where you needed a union. Before NJA I was charter with an owner who stated often "pilots are a dime a dozen and I have fifty cents in my pocket."

 

[Majik]

I just pulled it out of my butt, as you so eloquently put it. Years of studying economics and decades of observing union and non union shops, and the differences in how disputes are handled have convinced me that unions are the wrong answer to the right question, which is "how do we accomplish a better workplace?" The right answer being management's desire to avoid attrition and keep a motivated, productive workforce which will allow the company to change as the market changes. Unions just coerce and obstruct, and tend to feed into the most negative feelings of the biggest complainers, which tend to be the least productive employees anyway. Unions reward sloth and mediocrity, which means long term malaise and death to a company. See Delta and Pan Am and Eastern and...
Maybe if I become informed, instead of vaporing kneejerk opinions, I will become a union guy! If I do, you will be the first to know.

I used to have the same view as yours until I came to work for NJA (my first union job). It only took me about a year to realize (from direct observation) that I was previously wrong in my assumptions.
In a past non-union job I've seen how disputes between a rogue manager and a good employee were handled. The rogue manager won and the good pilot was shown the door. I've seen a manager's friends get bereavement leave granted in excess of the minumum and I've seen those that were not in management's pockets have to jump through hoops and fight to get the minimum. In my non-union experience I've learned that those that suck up to management tend to skate through the rules and those that question management's decisions tend to get treated harshly.

Here's an example of a 15 pilot, non-union flight department I was with. John was 4th in seniority and was one of the best pilots in the group. John joined a Navy Reserve unit flying a G4. After the military drawdown John's unit needed him to fly more. The company told John that he needed to reduce his reserve time or they would terminate him. John showed them the congressional paperwork that prevented employers from terminating employees because of military reserve committments. A few weeks later John was told that the company had decided to reduce the number of pilots from 15 to 14 and, that to be fair, they had randomly drawn a name from a hat to see which pilot should be terminated. You guessed it - John just happened to be the unlucky pilot. He hired a lawyer and lost. He quickly landed a better job but it sucked for us to watch a good pilot get shafted.

 

[G4dude]

Good arguments, both from Old F and Majik. I have worked for many bad employers, and it was rough. I did not put up with it, changed jobs, and ended up at a great place. I did not try to change a bad employer's behavior, I just found a better employer.
To reiterate, it is very nice seeing a much happier bunch at NJA. We just differ on how it could have been achieved. I could still be convinced you are correct, so keep trying.

 

[old*art]

G IV I am truly happy for you that your work experience has never had a need for a union. We all just do the best we can and do not always have the luxury of being able to pick up and leave a job - or are willing to fight to try to make it better for the ones who come behind. There are definite pros and cons to every scenario, but bad management is usually the root cause - Delta being the classic example.

 

[RustyFan]

Well I must admit there seems to be some common ground here. Perhaps there is a solution. As for the EJM issue, I do see the point.

My very vague bullet points are based on the NJI pilots, (not NJA) putting an end to this issue by unionizing before the possible NMB issue. While it wouldn't be pleasant for quite some time at NJI, our pilots hold cards at the moment. And for that reason and that reason only, we would put forth a proposal for a fair and equitable integration. In the end it will ultimately depend on what our younger pilots want to do. None of this will affect me regardless.

That being said, if we're going to end the war, we want the spoils equally divided.

 

[gunfyter]

If I were an employer or management... I would like to be able to sh!tcan anyone I wanted and promote anyone I wanted without messing with union work rules....


I'd like to have an A-team.