Netjets Gv Pay

[Hogprint]

Spyguy posted:

....why doesn't the union try to go for Home basing now instead of waiting three years???

Yeah, this was the turd in the punchbowl from the contract. No doubt about it. It was the issue that kept me waiting to vote until the bitter end.

The way I understand it is management floated this stinker in at the last minute (as a wedge issue for now or later?) and it was presented to us to vote on. The good out weighed the bad and we have what we have now. Is it perfect? No.

My gamble was the HBA would not work and the company would ask for relief. We still have stacks of resumes and people lined up to come to work here. Looks like that hand may not pay off. Time will tell.

In answer to your question though, the ball is in managements court on this one.

 

[Majik]

Delaying the contract another year may have permanently crippled NetJets. We fought over 4 years and both sides were getting bloodied. In the end it was my hope that not enough pilot applicants would be willing to move to one of the 5 domiciles or would not be willing to commute long distances. If the company could not attract enough pilots, they would be forced to expand the choices for new hires.

So far it appears there are plenty of qualified applicants that are willingly choosing to take the job under the conditions offered. If they're happy then I'll accept their decision to take the job. We'll address this issue in about 4 years unless the applicant pool dries up before then.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

We (NJA pilots)Let's just stop all of the chest thumping and let the courts decide. I promise to live with the decision if you will.

That's the most wise statement you've ever made. I agree.

Im off to fly the world and screw up the radio calls in Europe.:nuts:



Hog,

I dont know the numbers for this year, but its under 15.

 

[Majik]

Here was my original post:

We (NJA pilots) feel that NJI was formed as a separate company specifically to avoid unionization (letting the pilots have a choice). Let's let the courts determine if that's true. Santulli promised that they would later be combined. He lied. We would like all of our pilots to have the same ability to fly from home like NJI. Santulli says fly from home is too expensive.

Again, it's not some stupid vendetta on NJI although I understand why you want to try to spin it that way. I have a choice and I choose to pursue the single carrier thingy. You don't have a choice. You chose not to have a choice. You brag about not having a choice. Let's just stop all of the chest thumping and let the courts decide. I promise to live with the decision if you will.

Here's what you cut and pasted to make it look a quote:

We (NJA pilots)Let's just stop all of the chest thumping and let the courts decide. I promise to live with the decision if you will.

I was tempted to type something out of context and misquote you in return but I think it serves a better purpose to point out that you intentionally falsified my original post. Now why would you do that? Couldn't debate the issue on merits so you made something up? How does that make your side look? You must be taking a page out of Santulli's playbook - Lie when the truth doesn't suit your purpose...

 

[ghostrider64]

SPy who is this "NTS" you keep speaking of? I'm confused...

 

[Guitar rocker]

I think spy himself is confused.

 

[Spyguy]

If you were a new hire at NJA (and you did a little research) you would know that NJA pilots had a choice of a significant raise OR HBAs for all. You may not have come to NJA if we hadn't achieved a significant raise but it would have been a choice YOU made. So now every new hire has to make a decision. Do I accept the job knowing that I have to use one of the 5 domiciles? You say if you were a new hire and made the decision to accept the offer you would be pissed??? At yourself for making the decision or at the pilots that fought to increase wages? We can't go after changing the domicile thingy until 2010 because we signed the contract. The single carrier thingy is totally different and the only part of single carrier that we agreed to in the contract was to not take it to court until Nov 2008. Totally different animals. We will pursue HBAs for all when the Railway Labor Act allows us to. I wish we could always pick and choose which rules to follow but it doesn't work that way Sport.

So the question boils down to this - Will the court rule that NJA and NJI are similar companies within the same corporation and was NJI created separately from NJA to avoid unionization?

Majik,
Again I will piont out that the NMB AND the next contract will use a lot of money. The 1108 is not that big and limited in money. Again, I will bring up the Big Brothers at national Teamsters. The NMB will not gain you that much as far as dues are concerned. Why would the national Teamsters waste their money to help a local with a Vendetta that will not gain that much? I was not referring to new guys getting pissed now, I was referring to the two seperate (but coming from the same pot of money) battles that will take place within a couple of years of each other. I would be pissed if I were a new guy and you guys went whole heartedly after NJI and not have enough left over for a solid contract fight.

On a seperate note, RTRHD that was funnier than heck. I laughed my butt off.

 

[Spyguy]

Sorry, I was tired and can't type well to boot. I meant RTS, Mr. Santulli.

SPy who is this "NTS" you keep speaking of? I'm confused...

Sorry, I was tired and can't type well to boot. I meant RTS, Mr. Santulli.
And no Majik, I am not confused.

 

[DO-82 driver]

SPY...Thanks for the post. It only confirms that you are offering your opinion as fact. I truely believe you will be proven wrong.

I have been through 2 NMB mergers.....both of them have had the pilot groups merge on a ratio basis. The relationship betweem NJA and NJI is the closest I have seen in the mergers I have experienced.

Everytime I get a brief that states the owners are Gulfstream owners I save it as evidence. I have quite a few in my files. So do alot of other guys.

Can a Flex Jet owner call NJA and request an Ultra for one of their trips?....NO Freaking Way!!!

Can a NJI GV owner request an NJA X to take them across the pond if only 1 person is one board?.....every day.

I vote for a fair and financially responsible merger.

 

[Majik]

And no Majik, I am not confused.

I never said you were. You must have confused me with someone else.

 

[RTRHD]

On a seperate note, RTRHD that was funnier than heck. I laughed my butt off.

Glad you liked the song I wrote.

I was just a little joke.

Don't Worry, Be Happy.

O Crap I can't stop.

 

[Spyguy]

SPY...Thanks for the post. It only confirms that you are offering your opinion as fact. I truely believe you will be proven wrong.

I have been through 2 NMB mergers.....both of them have had the pilot groups merge on a ratio basis. The relationship betweem NJA and NJI is the closest I have seen in the mergers I have experienced.

Everytime I get a brief that states the owners are Gulfstream owners I save it as evidence. I have quite a few in my files. So do alot of other guys.

Can a Flex Jet owner call NJA and request an Ultra for one of their trips?....NO Freaking Way!!!

Can a NJI GV owner request an NJA X to take them across the pond if only 1 person is one board?.....every day.

I vote for a fair and financially responsible merger.

I have only been stating my opinion on any of this. I don't mean to imply or read anything on this board as 100 percent factual. As far as your point that Gulfstream owners fly with NJA, ok. There is a subtle distinction. There is money changing hands everytime it happens, from NJI to NJA. If you will allow an analogy, something like code sharing on major airlines. Obviously the rules are different, but they are decided on by NJA and NJI on who can request what. Like Delta passengers flying on Aeromexico (or whoever is part of their group these days). The passengers by one ticket but fly on different company's planes and money changes hands. The rules are set by the respective companys. Until the NMB happens everyone has an opinion on what might happen. I just don't see why the importance on this fight for your union when you could be worrying about other pressing QOL issues.

 

[Spyguy]

I never said you were. You must have confused me with someone else.

lol I give up, I guess I am, or maybe I am not.

 

[DO-82 driver]

I just don't see why the importance on this fight for your union when you could be worrying about other pressing QOL issues.

Why do we have to choose Single Carrier over QOL????

I am confident that both issues, and many more, can be addressed at the same time.

 

[old*art]

Nice try Spyguy with the codeshare analogy, but you do not see Delta airplanes in the Aeromexico literature, you do not see Delta pilots coming to fly Aeromexico airplanes, you do not see Aeromexico pilots getting the benefits negotiated by Delta pilots, and the list goes on and on ....

 

[Spyguy]

old*art,
Good point on the literature. The pay doesn't mean a hill of beans. The entire industry's wages went up, and NJI's pay is different just ask a new hire or older captain. The pay also comes from an entirely different pot of money controlled by NJI. And lastly, and I may have misread this, I believe that the LOA where it was negotiated for NJA guys to fly w/ NJI, states that nothing in that portion of the LOA can be brought up at the NMB. So, that arguement goes away too. And the list goes on.

 

[old*art]

I did not say pay .. I said benefits. You share in numerous areas that were part of or obtained by NJA. And I would bet my hat some of what you get is just to irritate NJA pilots. Case in point, if the domiciles are such a money saver, why wasn't NJI put on it when the idea first came up ?

 

[Ultra Grump]

old*art - you're wasting your time arguing with Spyguy - he doesn't work at NJI. In April he was whining that he couldn't get hired at NJI because he doesn't meet the mins - and that's 1108's fault! He's just here talking out his ass:

No, I have a friend who has worked there basically since they started. The "plan" was to interview soon. Basically, before this you could get hired below their published mins, now, they are putting out that they can't touch anyone below mins period because of the 1108 grievances.

 

[batsky2000]

I work at NJI and spy guy does spew some BS now and then, and I can't say wheather he works here or not, I look at it this way, I disagree with spyguy, NJI,NJA,NJE,ETC.. all are under the same dome, money comes from the same pocket, we share everything, from stock lockers to passengers, you guys fly our pax, and we fly yours now and then, there are some benefits that we would like to see, like your overtime/holiday pay, and retirement medical/Dental plan, we don't have that, we get overtime, but it is very useless program, you guys would like to have our home basing and crew meal policy, I have many friends who work at NJA, and when I see NJA pilots at the hotel or FBO, I strike a pleasant conversation and like wise, This bickering back and forth is pointless, what ever the outcome after 3 years, I am sure it will benefit both sides

Lets just get along in the mean time, we all do the same job for the same owners

 

[Fozzy]

Batsky,
Well said.

Spy,
How much money do you think this will cost? I am just curious. The next question, how much money do you think we have in the bank already?
Serious questions, I would just like to know what you think.