Netjets Gv Pay

[gutshotdraw]

Just for a little clarification, NJI does not offer the "Reserve" schedule only 7-7 so that second number quoted for the NJA Category 4 pay scale has no relevance at NJI. Overtime rules are quite different as well.

 

[Spyguy]

No, it ain't rocket science. Why, then, is it so difficult to understand the advantages of being represented by a union? An NJA pilot who transfers to NJI makes 120k/142k in the first year, depending on regular or reserve schedule. That same pilot makes 167k/198k in year 10. That applies to the GIV and GV. That ain't rocket science either. Even if you're opposed to unions, the math makes it worth it to consider the change, I would think.

Pervis,
I love how a lot of NJA guys lot to throw out yearly wages and not take into factor the union dues. Once you subtract those, the wages are farely similar for captains. I know, some will say that they get more in grievances in a year to make up for the dues, but you can't count on that and you can always count on paying dues.

 

[Pervis]

Spyguy, I pay $1726/yr union dues as PIC in my sixth year. My overtime, extended day, grievance and holiday pay totals over $9000 to date, more than $1850/month average. Per diem adds another $400 plus/mo. Now do you think the dues reduce my salary to match yours? I doubt it. I mention this only to provide some accurate info to provide all some hard data. I am not unique in this category. In fact, some have seen huge class action grievance awards that I was not party to.

Wolfpack, I believe all should have the facts in order to weigh the pros and cons of being a member of IBT1108. If single carrier becomes an issue in the near future, I for one will support the fair integration of our ranks. There are some radical folks on NJA side as well as NJI though. What I mean by that is some with NJI are radically opposed to union shops, possibly because of bad or missinformation. On the other side of the coin, some with NJA strongly believe the staple factor applies if you guys aren't dues paying members once integration happens. If it happens, I for one do not want to see any friction between us.

I certainly will not be one to threaten or intimidate, and I think most of us feel the same way. However, you can see the anymosity created by a few on this board. In fact, I wouldn't be suprised to see this cordial discussion turned in the near future by one or more of those few. For the time being, though, we are able to continue in a civil dialect. This is what we need more of.

 

[old*art]

It may have been smoke, but I had an NJI G IV captain tell me one of his major complaints at NJI was no published salary scale and he was sure some pilots junior to him were paid higher.

 

[WGFP48]

It may have been smoke, but I had an NJI G IV captain tell me one of his major complaints at NJI was no published salary scale and he was sure some pilots junior to him were paid higher.

It sounds more like paranoid to me...the guys in the office have worked very hard to make sure that pay scales are fair and equitable...there are always some people who think some one junior is making more...and then there are some who think that some one is flying captain below them in seniority too...but by and large the situation is fair and un-biased....if one of these old G4 guys thinks they are getting screwed then they need to go to the source and ask a chief pilot to look into the deal and see...there certainly is not enough ammo here to give rise to a union....

 

[gutshotdraw]

It may have been smoke, but I had an NJI G IV captain tell me one of his major complaints at NJI was no published salary scale and he was sure some pilots junior to him were paid higher.

Although rare, there are pilots on both the G-IV and G-V who make different salaries despite equivalent "longevity" with the company (we don't use the S word). Starting salaries have changed over the years and first year Captain pay has also risen although not always retroactively to Captains promoted just a few months before. In the past, Management has used the "merit raise" program to try and smooth out the bumps in the graph with varying degrees of success.

The recent wholesale change in salary structure (yes, yes, thank you IBT 1108) reportedly equalized many of the disparities. Nevertheless, NJI DOES NOT have a fixed salary "scale" and also does not promote every pilot to Captain even though their date of hire might indicate their "right" to a Captain seat.

By and large, some of the NJI policies are considered "head-scratchers" but not enough to cause wholesale discontent. It would be a tall order to convince even a quarter of the pilot group that they might be better off as part of the Brotherhood.

 

[wafu39]

WOW!

I thought I asked a pretty simple question!!!!!!!!!!

 

[RNObased]

Pervis,
I love how a lot of NJA guys lot to throw out yearly wages and not take into factor the union dues. Once you subtract those, the wages are farely similar for captains. I know, some will say that they get more in grievances in a year to make up for the dues, but you can't count on that and you can always count on paying dues.

Spyguy,
I make enought that I don't even look at how much the union is taking out of my check, until the end of the year when I get the number for my taxes.

As pervis said, the amount of holiday pay the overtime and etc more than makes up for the dues, without counting grievences. So to bottom line it for you, dues aren't a issue.

 

[RustyFan]

However, you can see the anymosity created by a few on this board.

Yeah, that would be me. But I like your attitude Pervis and you do present your case with a high level of professionalism. For that you can be proud, and your union should be proud of you.

So lets say NJI pilots decide to "unionize" on their own before the petition. it would save your union millions in legal fees and put an end to this whole thing basically overnight. While many NJA pilots see us as company stooges, we actually hold the golden key to what you want, and it could happen a whole lot easier and quicker if NJI pilots decide to make it happen. But nothing is free in this game. If NJI pilots joined the 1108,

In return would the 1108 honor the following:

• Pay rate protections for all NJI pilots if the CBA would result in a lower pay scale.
• Give all NJI FO's hired prior to 7/1/06 the right to upgrade in a Gulfstream aircraft.
• Grant seniority number positions to all NJI pilots based on their DOH.
• Grant seniority number positions to all NJI pilots who worked for EJA/EJM based on their original DOH. (basically excusing their resignation letters).
• Install fence protections for all NJI pilots for a period of 6 years.
• Grant Management a 12 month working committee to integrate the operational control of NJI.

I'm going to retire in a few months, but I want to see our young guys taken care of. I don't speak for anyone but myself, but I'm interested in what you think.

Take Care,

RustyFan

 

[Hogprint]

Rustyfan posted:

In return would the 1108 honor the following:

• Pay rate protections for all NJI pilots if the CBA would result in a lower pay scale.
• Give all NJI FO's hired prior to 7/1/06 the right to upgrade in a Gulfstream aircraft.
• Grant seniority number positions to all NJI pilots based on their DOH.
• Grant seniority number positions to all NJI pilots who worked for EJA/EJM based on their original DOH. (basically excusing their resignation letters).
• Install fence protections for all NJI pilots for a period of 6 years.
• Grant Management a 12 month working committee to integrate the operational control of NJI

Rusty,
I'm not privy to the inner workings of the union, but IMHO, this would be somewhat of a fair compromise.

I don't see pay protections as the scale is already set in the contract. I would agree with upgrade rights on Gulfstreams for FO's and fence protection or grandfathering of NJI pilots.

The staple and DOH issue will be the sticky situation. Precedent from other mergers have resulted in some kind of formula for the mix (2:1, 5:1, ect...). As you can expect, someone will get hosed and not everyone is going to be happy with the outcome.

Whatever the outcome I hope it is fair and equitable for all. I have talked to several NJI crews out on the road and to the man they have all had a wait and see attitude. They seemed to think it would work out and I haven't seen any bitter folks from either side.

 

[Pervis]

Rusty, I don't have a problem with any of your concerns except EJM. They are even more separate than NJA/NJI. Pilots there have individual deals with the actual owners of the a/c. That would be like granting seniority integration rights with GE pilots who come to work for either of us. I don't think anyone currently employed at Netjets would agree with that.

I can't speak for NJI, but when EJM dumped the Falcon 50s, most of those pilots were put out to pasture, and those that came to work for NJA were selectively interviewed and started at the bottom of our list. The union had nothing to do with that-it was a management thing. Management never approached the union for any accommodations for those left to find new jobs.

Based upon my extremely limited brain cell capacity, I would think the work rules and CBA salaries would make NJI pilots more agreeable to union membership, assuming that FOs would be accommodated. I would not agree to a pay cut for anyone. I agree the most serious issue would be for FO protection in many areas. As posted above, not all will be happy. Hopefully we can come to some understanding that impacts most if not all in a possitive way. Of course, like all companies, you could pay a guy a million bucks to work one day/yr and he'd bitch because it was the wrong day.

 

[Pervis]

Rusty, congrats on your upcoming retirement. I agree with your concern for those still left to wallow in the trenches, but there is one big item that would affect you in the new CBA that has not recieved a lot of attention.

After ten years of service, company continues to provide full health/dental/vision coverage at a prorated cost to the employee which decreases to zero cost after twenty years of service. That is a huge benefit that applies to most pilots, regardless of where they stand in their career.

I know it means a lot to me, even though I have a few years left to retire myself. A friend of mine working at NJI that you probably know saw that and was extremely impressed, which implies you don't have that bennie right now. Just more food for thought.

 

[old*art]

And PLEASE remember - this is a fight between NJA pilots and the broken promises of an unnamed individual. It is not about G envy, no matter how many times that smoke screen is floated here. The NJI pilots have been used as pawns in the game and are just caught in the crossfire. From my first hand experiences at NJA, I can assure you 1108 has more compassion for the NJI pilots than the Great One they think will save them.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Rusty, your compromise plan seems a good start but a fence of only 6 years? Sorry, we all will have a nit to pick with any compromise idea and this is it for me. In the event of an integration (although unlikely in my opinion, I don't view it as a catastrophic event as some do), any future award of a seat in any fleet should be based on seniority (however integrated) but exisiting equipment and seat should be LOCKED until that pilot elects to bid another position or leave the company. There are many reasons to prohibit displacement both economic and ethical. IF the petition is approved, NJI pilots will have to rely on the NMB supervised IBT 1108 integration committee creating a fair plan regardless of NJI pilots' input or actions in the interim.

 

[crashpad]

Just wanted to see what you fractional guys were up to?.............yawn........