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Netjets Casino employees

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Dispatcher--

You said, "PLEASE... stick to flying planes. That's all they need you for."

If that is what you truly believe and not something said out of frustration, then you really don't know my job......nor, I suspect, do most employees in the Casino....

Flying the airplanes is the "EASY" part of my job....once that door closes, and I hit the GO button, I relax.....

Let's see...what else do they "need" me for?

Well, when I show up, I do the following and more:

I gotta pre-flight the airplane to make sure that it's airworthy....and if I find something wrong, I have to write it up, fax it in, confer with the APC on duty and call maintenance.

I gotta check the interior for the proper equipment, documents and paperwork---have to call the APC on duty if something is missing or amiss with any of that stuff.

I have to check the fuel load and see if I agree with what YOU think I should carry for fuel based on weather, traffic, the airport of departure, the airport of arrival, pax load, taxi time, diverting to an alternate, runway requirements ad nauseum.....(By the way, what they have you fuel us to is usually too low.....I don't know how many times I've added extra fuel that saved my butt....no criticism of you personally, but the fuel loads are sometimes downright dangerous and do not take into account what experience on the road has taught.)

Oh, and I have to check the weather, runway requirements, maintenance MEL's, and aircraft maintenance and service history to see if there are any trends that might bite me in the butt.

Am I at the right FBO? Is the plane here or at the one on the other side of the field and someone forgot to tell me? Is the van going to be on time this morning? Where is the crew food that we ordered?

Is tha pax cattering here? No? Gotta call the company....

Oh, the pax are gonna be late? Better check on the clearance void time, the arrival slot time and customs.

Have to fill out the customs forms.

Gotta load the bags.....golf clubs, a dining room chair set (did that the other day), enough clothes for a month at the Breakers in PBI....but they're only going for a long weekend.....

Where's the catering? Is everything here? What? No Dom? Call CMH and get a rush on a half-dozen splits.....

Is there coffee, water and ice? Papers? The pax want WHAT paper? Momma Warbucks wants all the candy and cookies taken off the plane when here kids on board? OK, gotta get that taken care of.

Did the fuel get put on correctly? What they filled the wings AND the main? OH, great.....We're overweight now....gotta call CMH on that one. Where's the ramp people? Seen anyone this morning? The FBO doesn't open 'til when and we're do out WHEN?

IS the carpet clean? How about the lav....that working? How about the water tank? How's the stock? What? haven't been to a locker in three days and there aren't any more Macadamia nuts? Or Diet Cokes? Or?????????

Hey, what's with the 20 minute turn in MCO dropping off pax and then picking up pax? And they're EARLY! OK< I'll go explain that one, you get the fuel, ATIS and clearance.

Oh, there is a change in the pax manifest? Call CMH....change the release....change the FMS per init....Everyone got their ID"s and passports for clearing customs?

We gotta divert WHERE? Is customs notified? Do we have the fuel? What's with those thunderstorms over the island? Oh, great can't hear a thing on the HF today.......

Oh, and take care of the pax...be ready for those who treat you something worse than their maid and those that look down upon you like a dirty load of laundry because THEY are rich and powerful and you are not.....

There are plenty of nice ones....some want to be left alone...others want loads of attention and talk.....gotta make sure you don't do one when the other is wanted.....Watch what you say to them. If they ask you questions about the comapny be careful, you might get called to CMH and get fired.

Ooops, these people are scared of flying and "bumps"...better go back and chat with them and reassure them that it's OK.....

OK, they're bringing their dog....better line up a carpet clean at SFO......Oh, THREE dogs?

Ooops, dispatch filed us over the ocean...I guess the pink slip didn't catch up to them yet.

Ooops, OS messed up the destination and we're at the WRONG airport?

OS blamed us for WHAT????? Are you kidding me?????? It's blowing 28 gusting 42 with blowing snow and they're wondering why we're not going to TEB? Huh? Gotta call the ACP......The pax want to know why XYZ company is taking off in this junk but we're not? Gotta explain NJA's standards.....OK, they're ticked but I got them settled down.....

Ooops....the FMS/radio/pressurization/gear/engine/APU/anti-ice just died.....oh, great......(sorry, that has to do with flying the airplane)

Where's the pax limo? Wrong airport? Oh, no the RIGHT airport but someone else took their limo? Oh, great....better get that worked on......

Where's the van/taxi limo to the hotel? Oh, we don't have hotel info yet? We've been on duty for 14 hours and have a show at legal and there's no hotel info yet? And we have to get up at 4? Again?

What? No non-smoking rooms? Only double beds near the elevator/wedding reception/pool area/cheerleading competition? OK....I'm too tired....just gimme a room....I gotta get up in a few hours and do it all over again.....

So, Dispatcher....please don't tell me that all's they need me for is to fly the airplanes.....

I've been here a number of years.....It takes more than a few months to get truly GOOD at this job...more like a few years to really have a handle on it and to be able to anticipate what MIGHT MESS UP.....As Murphy says, "If it can go wrong, it will"....My job entails SO much more than flying and a LOT of it has to deal with anticipating what might go wrong and how to fix it so the owners don't notice a thing.....And it ALL comes down to the pilots making sure that it works and making sure that it's safe.

The buck stops with us and I can't tell you the number of times each day the pilots at Net Jets make it WORK despite what happens.....

And that's why we are worth a WHOLE LOT MORE THAN WE ARE BEING PAID.
And that's why they need us for more than "flying the airplanes".....

Man, it'd be a piece of cake if all's I had to worry about was flying the airplanes....
 
abenaki said:
Dispatcher--

You said, "PLEASE... stick to flying planes. That's all they need you for."

If that is what you truly believe and not something said out of frustration, then you really don't know my job......nor, I suspect, do most employees in the Casino....

Flying the airplanes is the "EASY" part of my job....once that door closes, and I hit the GO button, I relax.....

Let's see...what else do they "need" me for?

Well, when I show up, I do the following and more:

I gotta pre-flight the airplane to make sure that it's airworthy....and if I find something wrong, I have to write it up, fax it in, confer with the APC on duty and call maintenance.

I gotta check the interior for the proper equipment, documents and paperwork---have to call the APC on duty if something is missing or amiss with any of that stuff.

I have to check the fuel load and see if I agree with what YOU think I should carry for fuel based on weather, traffic, the airport of departure, the airport of arrival, pax load, taxi time, diverting to an alternate, runway requirements ad nauseum.....(By the way, what they have you fuel us to is usually too low.....I don't know how many times I've added extra fuel that saved my butt....no criticism of you personally, but the fuel loads are sometimes downright dangerous and do not take into account what experience on the road has taught.)

Oh, and I have to check the weather, runway requirements, maintenance MEL's, and aircraft maintenance and service history to see if there are any trends that might bite me in the butt.

Am I at the right FBO? Is the plane here or at the one on the other side of the field and someone forgot to tell me? Is the van going to be on time this morning? Where is the crew food that we ordered?

Is tha pax cattering here? No? Gotta call the company....

Oh, the pax are gonna be late? Better check on the clearance void time, the arrival slot time and customs.

Have to fill out the customs forms.

Gotta load the bags.....golf clubs, a dining room chair set (did that the other day), enough clothes for a month at the Breakers in PBI....but they're only going for a long weekend.....

Where's the catering? Is everything here? What? No Dom? Call CMH and get a rush on a half-dozen splits.....

Is there coffee, water and ice? Papers? The pax want WHAT paper? Momma Warbucks wants all the candy and cookies taken off the plane when here kids on board? OK, gotta get that taken care of.

Did the fuel get put on correctly? What they filled the wings AND the main? OH, great.....We're overweight now....gotta call CMH on that one. Where's the ramp people? Seen anyone this morning? The FBO doesn't open 'til when and we're do out WHEN?

IS the carpet clean? How about the lav....that working? How about the water tank? How's the stock? What? haven't been to a locker in three days and there aren't any more Macadamia nuts? Or Diet Cokes? Or?????????

Hey, what's with the 20 minute turn in MCO dropping off pax and then picking up pax? And they're EARLY! OK< I'll go explain that one, you get the fuel, ATIS and clearance.

Oh, there is a change in the pax manifest? Call CMH....change the release....change the FMS per init....Everyone got their ID"s and passports for clearing customs?

We gotta divert WHERE? Is customs notified? Do we have the fuel? What's with those thunderstorms over the island? Oh, great can't hear a thing on the HF today.......

Oh, and take care of the pax...be ready for those who treat you something worse than their maid and those that look down upon you like a dirty load of laundry because THEY are rich and powerful and you are not.....

There are plenty of nice ones....some want to be left alone...others want loads of attention and talk.....gotta make sure you don't do one when the other is wanted.....Watch what you say to them. If they ask you questions about the comapny be careful, you might get called to CMH and get fired.

Ooops, these people are scared of flying and "bumps"...better go back and chat with them and reassure them that it's OK.....

OK, they're bringing their dog....better line up a carpet clean at SFO......Oh, THREE dogs?

Ooops, dispatch filed us over the ocean...I guess the pink slip didn't catch up to them yet.

Ooops, OS messed up the destination and we're at the WRONG airport?

OS blamed us for WHAT????? Are you kidding me?????? It's blowing 28 gusting 42 with blowing snow and they're wondering why we're not going to TEB? Huh? Gotta call the ACP......The pax want to know why XYZ company is taking off in this junk but we're not? Gotta explain NJA's standards.....OK, they're ticked but I got them settled down.....

Ooops....the FMS/radio/pressurization/gear/engine/APU/anti-ice just died.....oh, great......(sorry, that has to do with flying the airplane)

Where's the pax limo? Wrong airport? Oh, no the RIGHT airport but someone else took their limo? Oh, great....better get that worked on......

Where's the van/taxi limo to the hotel? Oh, we don't have hotel info yet? We've been on duty for 14 hours and have a show at legal and there's no hotel info yet? And we have to get up at 4? Again?

What? No non-smoking rooms? Only double beds near the elevator/wedding reception/pool area/cheerleading competition? OK....I'm too tired....just gimme a room....I gotta get up in a few hours and do it all over again.....

So, Dispatcher....please don't tell me that all's they need me for is to fly the airplanes.....

I've been here a number of years.....It takes more than a few months to get truly GOOD at this job...more like a few years to really have a handle on it and to be able to anticipate what MIGHT MESS UP.....As Murphy says, "If it can go wrong, it will"....My job entails SO much more than flying and a LOT of it has to deal with anticipating what might go wrong and how to fix it so the owners don't notice a thing.....And it ALL comes down to the pilots making sure that it works and making sure that it's safe.

The buck stops with us and I can't tell you the number of times each day the pilots at Net Jets make it WORK despite what happens.....

And that's why we are worth a WHOLE LOT MORE THAN WE ARE BEING PAID.
And that's why they need us for more than "flying the airplanes".....

Man, it'd be a piece of cake if all's I had to worry about was flying the airplanes....

Good post, but I don't think you went quite enough in detail to get through thick heads...

C
 
Great post Abenaki!

You forgot the CMH 1 arrival for "the dance" because they moved up our T/O time to 4am, but forgot to order b-fast and water for the plane (2 1/2 hr ferry by the way), no release or brief sheets. Delayed the flight 1hr till I had everthing. Went out to resume mission and and plane broke.

Meanwhile back at the "Death Star", an intrepid Ultra crew was up talking to an ACP. When the call came in that 395 was down, nineteen yr old, pimple faced, scheduling storm troopers went ape sh*t. Crew observed said storm troopers saying "this crew is going to come in and talk to GL....we've had enough of their sh*t!".

When ACP tried to explain that this was an on going maint. issue, and any issues with the crew were seperate from the write up, pimply faced storm trooper basically blew off the ACP, and went directly to GL!

We turn Ultra into maint and get AL info on Southwest to TUL. Get the redirect to CMH an hour later. Cost to company:

$1200 in airline tickets to CMH

1 crew off line for 2 1/2 days to "talk" about this

more $ to fly another crew to TUL to pick up the plane we were going to get.

All of this could have been cleared up with a phone call, but we had to do it the HARD WAY!

Obviously this was pre-91k, and the early calls are gone, but whose side are you guys on in the Death star anyway?

I can remember a time here when we were all on the same team. I hope we can get back to that when this mess is over.
 
Excellent post, abenaki.:) Indeed, the flying is the fun part. The rest is work.

I remember a quote from a pretty well-known musician who said that on tour, he'd play music for free - what he wanted money for was all the other stuff that happens for the 22 hours per day that he wasn't on stage. I think there's a certain analogy to the fractional job there.
 
Abenaki nailed it

Yep, thats the way it is.

For the Casino people, this person has given an accurate discription of how things are on a daily basis. Even if you take out any reference to any problems that occur.

There is alot more then just getting in and "driving" away.

We do not not want anybody to lose their jobs.

We want this to be a great place to work.
 
Not only a great place to work, but a CAREER that pilots can stay at. I have heard that wish expressed by pilots and spouses many times.

Everyone is aware of the good things that can be accomplished by a motivated, workforce. Certainly, the professional pilots of NJ will continue to do their jobs. I'm talking about going the extra mile that builds a top notch reputation. I know the NJ pilots have already done that and I'm suggesting that it wouldn't be wise for the company to think they can "rest on their laurels" now. If they're smart, they'll re-motivate the pilots by keeping the promises that were used to motivate them to begin with.

Nice to see you posting, Semore! :)
NJW
 
abenaki said:
Dispatcher--

You said, "PLEASE... stick to flying planes. That's all they need you for."

If that is what you truly believe and not something said out of frustration, then you really don't know my job......nor, I suspect, do most employees in the Casino....
>>>

....

My friend, I'm sorry you took my comments the wrong way. The fact that you felt you had to go to such great lengths to tell me everything I already knew tells me you missed the point.... which was in response to 750 driver arrogantly acting as though he should be making financial decisions for the company based on his limited knowledge and understanding rather than doing what he was hired to do - fly (which includes all the territory that goes with it - - between two long-term NJA employees that just goes without saying).

Your work here for NetJets is appreciated and I don't intend to devalue that. Everyone at BWY sees how you get the job done everyday. So no need to preach to the choir. Casino folk are the last people you need to convince.

I'm really getting tired of saying this but since every other response seems to debate the only issue that no one is disagreeing with you about - that NJA pilots pay should increase. No one says it shouldn't and the relentless posts about why you should get a pay increase aren't even the issue. The real issue is how much, and to what destructive end you are willing to go to get it.

Fact is, none of us can even have a reasonable discussion about how much the company can afford to increase your pay because none of us know the facts. They say the lost 6 million in the first quarter of this year. Who knows where that number came from and how it was spun? Chances are, if you already mistrust the company you're not going to believe it from the get-go. Fine. So we speculate to no end about 57 dollar quarts of oil and drool over WB's personal wealth and cry "it's not fair". Your not going to convince too many people that way. At least it does nothing for me. And that's 90% of what I'm hearing. So it's neither here-nor-there for me.

My issue is with your union and with the growing attitude of the pilots that is destructive to this company.

Yes, I came to this company knowing there was a union and the territory that goes with it. I can handle the consequences of that. But the employees here have had a front row seat to a real-life civic lesson on unions. Why on earth would any non-union Netjets employee want to side with the Teamsters when they can see for themselves the pros and cons when compared to NJI and other non-bargaining employees including ourselves. I feel for NJA pilots because sometimes I think you don't get what you deserve BECAUSE of the union. If you weren't represented by a union you would be better paid and more content. NJI is undeniable proof. Unions aren't needed at Netjets. The union is only a threat to the comany's welfar - and possibly your career. They were meant for a time when workers needed to be protected from unhealthy workplaces and irresponsible employers. Seriously, what have they done for you other than Pi$$ off RTS?

Objectively speaking, if NetJets is guilty of coorporate greed than they need to suffer the consequences. But we can't even have that discussion objectively until a third party opens the books and we even know what we are talking about. And when the books are opened you should expect a non-disclosure - that's how its done. So you and I will probably never know for sure. So continue to speculate but don't think it sounds persuasive to anyone with any objectivity.

You can expect that Casino employees will pull for you the whole way (whether or not your demands are reasonable).... that is, all the way to the picket line - that is where I get off. We expect you will want to strike. But don't expect us to like it or motivate you towards that end. We like you but we like our families more. I really don't take your intentions personally, I honestly believe you are doing what you feel is best. But don't expect me sit by contently or withhold my opinion just because you belong to a union.

I'm thankful that you aren't even allowed to strike without permission. The company really needs to show some fault or neglect in the bargaining process before you can be released to strike. So far, your union is seeing to it that they are the ones that can't have good-faith negotiations and I doubt the mediator is impressed. I could be wrong of course, we will see. But if you are not realeased to strike and go into a deep freeze - either get rid of the union or find a place you can be happy with. Waiting and worrying about the next fat check is making you guys miserable.
 
Hogprint said:
Great post Abenaki!


I can remember a time here when we were all on the same team. I hope we can get back to that when this mess is over.

Me too. But who walked away from who?
 
abenaki said:
To the Casino Employees and the Dispatcher--

One of the problems here is that you are all being fed the information as management wants you to hear it. There is no "balancing" on the company website, is there? Every wonder why that is? Ever wonder why management doesn't open up the company website to the union's position? If they are so open and honest, then why wouldn't they openly invite the opposing viewpoint?

Mr. Abenaki (are you a descendent Native American from Maine? - very cool)

I don't believe the company owes me an explanation as to why you don't like your pay.


abenaki said:
Well, one reason is so that they can sow seeds of fear, doubt and uncertainty and make fairly blatant attempts at prodding one employee group against another. That is all part of union busting 101. If you don't believe me, read I WAS A UNION BUSTER...you will find that every tactic that management is employing coming right out of that book.

1. I don't feel any fear. So if you are right about this company tactic, they aren't doing a very good job at it.
2. Passing along their information hasn't served to cause me to doubt either.
3. Union Busting? Are you aware of the company succeeding in converting one union member? If you were referring to non-union employees in the Casino - it's tough to bust a union that your not part of - wait - make that impossible.

abenaki said:
While you may not choose to acknowledge it nor believe that it is true, attempts are being made to manipulate each and every one of you into being scared and taking out your blame and frustrations on the pilot group. This tactic has been employed many times over the years by various management groups at various aviation and non-aviation companies.

1. Still not scared.
2. Still not playing the blame game.
3. I've only reacted the the pilots own words and assertions. The company only reacted to the 6S propaganda they passed out at a company meeting. Before that they were mute on the subject. Sounds fair to me.

abenaki said:
And you know what? I don't blame you for being scared. This is scary stuff. Our actions are made to appear to threaten YOU! So why wouldn't you be scared? And what is the result of fear? Anger usually. And who does management want you to be angry at? THE PILOTS!!!! Of course!!!!

1. Still not scared.
2. Your actions, if carried through, do threaten me point blank. Are you denying that?
3. Still not scared.
4. Not angry yet, but I'll let you know.
5. Management has not told me to be angry at you, sorry.


abenaki said:
It's beautiful! Instill fear! Hope for anger!!! And make sure that anger is targeted at the employee group you are negotiating with. Make THEM out to be the bad guys and spin any event in order to make your case. **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**! It's brilliant! Evil, but brilliant!

1. Still not scared
2. Not angry
3. Management said your doing a good job and they like you.


abenaki said:
And some of you have taken the bait and run with it...one example? The reasoning behind the chairman of the MEC leaving the meeting once it was announced that the negotiating team and the chairman would have to sign a confidentiality agreement in regards to the "financial information" that the company was about to present.

Any good chairman ENTRUSTS his negotiating team with information. He (the MEC Chairman) CANNOT have his hands tied in regards to communication with his membership by any "confidentiality agreement". That's not how it works AND it's why there is ALWAYS supposed to be a negotiating team SEPARATE from the MEC so one group CAN have it's hands tied while the other can be freely open with it's membership.

The chairman of the MEC discussed his position with the Mediator and the Mediator agreed with his decision to leave the meeting prior to the presentation.....

So, FracFriend.....did the Chairman of the MEC institute some kind of confrontation as you suggest? Or did NJA management set him up to look bad by doing something that they KNEW he couldn't participate in?

Couldn't or Wouldn't - that's a little fuzzy.

abenaki said:
You really have to ask yourselves, "Who's zoomin' whom here?"......

Good question.
 
Last edited:
Waiting and worrying about the next fat check is making you guys miserable.

Shows your true feelings.

Me too. But who walked away from who?

Just goes to show you still don't understand about what happened in negotiations. Nobody walked away from anything.

Here's a question if you're such a long term employee did you feel the same way about the mechanics strike? Or did you just not tell them because you had to see them everyday?
 

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