Netjets Casino employees

[HiSpeedFlyer]

Flyer,
I can only speak for myself, but I don’t hate your guts. In practice when I get treated with respect and professionalism, I return it in kind. Unlike you, I have been here years not months. I have seen the change in the relationship between the crews and the casino workers first hand. Right now, it’s the worst I’ve ever seen it and don’t think it stems from how the non-bargaining guys are acting.
-Good, I haven't given you a reason yet.....but it seems the rest of 135/91 has got my number cause I wear a gold tie. The change in attiude is twofold, the strain of a bad situation hitting both sides.... once again, both of us point fingers at each other. Management 1, employees 0.

I have worked in freight, legacy and charter, and I can agree with you that this place is light years ahead of many others. It was never more in evidence when not one employee, pilot or otherwise laid off after 9/11. That’s pretty special in any industry, but it’s downright unheard of in aviation.
- No arguement there.
The company owes you an industry (fractional) leading wage. As near as I can tell that’s pretty close to what’s being offered. I don’t think that because you or I work for BH that there is an unlimited bag of money for either of us.
- No, NO, NO....its about a close as a whale is to a cat. Please red what we were to give up.. just on that alone it put us at a substandard level... but I wont beat a dead horse.. look it up.

As far as the line goes, BB can take the highroad and claim nothing is going on, but the rework created by the increased DNIFs, bogus write-ups and feet dragging is pretty obvious. The crap on this board and in the press has caused many of us who supported you in the beginning to do a 180.

-as for those, there are no woirk actions taking place.. and I'm insulted that someone would consider a bogus write up.....if its broke, and your family is behind me, do you want me to wait till its convinient to fix it?? Not me, Bubba.

Please dont drag us all down, man.. as I had stated before.

 

[transpac]

I have worked in freight, legacy and charter, and I can agree with you that this place is light years ahead of many others. It was never more in evidence when not one employee, pilot or otherwise laid off after 9/11. That’s pretty special in any industry, but it’s downright unheard of in aviation.

If you're implying that no layoffs was due to Santulli's generosity, you've got to be kidding. Business absolutely boomed at EJA following 9/11. They needed more employees, not less.

 

[FamilyGuy]

If you're implying that no layoffs was due to Santulli's generosity, you've got to be kidding. Business absolutely boomed at EJA following 9/11. They needed more employees, not less.

WRONG. Even some of the pilots have stated (Grizz for one) that NetJets was long 150-200 pilots in 2002-2003. Did any of these pilots get laid off? NO.

Would they have been laid off at almost any other aviation company? Probably.

You may not want to acknowledge Mr. Santulli's generosity, but there are hundreds of people in the casino (and probably the flight line if they dont get their arms twisted by the teamsters) that can vouch for it.

I'm sure that the old timers havent forgotten how Mr. Santulli paid payroll out of his pocket when the company was in trouble during the early 90's as well.

 

[Diesel]

Yes there was a time when we were fat 150 or so pilots.

Don't think that santulli kept them on to show what a great guy he was. He knew it would be a PR nightmare if NetJets was the only one to furlough while FLOPS wasn't. At the time NJ and FLOPS where at each others throat. Furloughing was a sign of weakness neither could afford to show.

Yes the old timers remember how RTS paid out of his own pocket. Does he remember all the sacrifices the pilots have made since then?

A key point to remember is the Teamsters are the Pilots. We have our own local and have spent a lot of time setting it up and running it by the pilots for the pilots. You can bash the teamsters all day long but our local is stronger than any time in the past.

So twist it any way you want. You can either believe the company and that BB is the second coming to Jesus or you can believe the pilots who are working the line every day keeping this company afloat.

Accept it.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Yes there was a time when we were fat 150 or so pilots.

Don't think that santulli kept them on to show what a great guy he was. He knew it would be a PR nightmare if NetJets was the only one to furlough while FLOPS wasn't. At the time NJ and FLOPS where at each others throat. Furloughing was a sign of weakness neither could afford to show.

Yes the old timers remember how RTS paid out of his own pocket. Does he remember all the sacrifices the pilots have made since then?

And defering aircraft deliveries isnt a sign of weakness? NetJets did a lot of that in 2002-2003....if we were in such a struggle with Flops then why would we show that weakness?

Why dont you just acknowledge Mr. Santulli's generosity of carrying 150-200 pilots for 2+ years while we waited for the economy to take off again? In case you want to calculate that number it's in the neighborhood of $20+ million dollars of carrying cost. If Mr. Santulli is as ruthless as you seem intent on implying then I dont think he would hesitate to pick up $20 million...regardless of PR impact.

A key point to remember is the Teamsters are the Pilots. We have our own local and have spent a lot of time setting it up and running it by the pilots for the pilots. You can bash the teamsters all day long but our local is stronger than any time in the past.

So twist it any way you want. You can either believe the company and that BB is the second coming to Jesus or you can believe the pilots who are working the line every day keeping this company afloat.

Accept it.

Another key point to remember is that Mr. Santulli signs all of our paychecks....not Jimmy Hoffa Jr.

Its entrepreneurs and companies that create jobs, not unions.

So it doesnt matter how strong your union is.....It doesnt create a single job....except maybe all those Teamster leaders whose pay can be found here:

http://www.tdu.org/HoffaWatch/Club2004/club2004.html

 

[Diesel]

Now you're saying we were fat for 2 plus years. Nice just keep adding up crap and you still get crap.

We were fat for a couple of months. I'm not sure it can even be proven we were fat because I still flew my arse off during that time.

Remember during this time that we were "fat" the comapny and the union were in negotiations. Being fat on pilots was a nice way to scare the pilots. I do think there was some truth in both sides. We might have been fat on pilots but not for 2 plus years.

Before you say we didn't hire any in 2 plus years and therefor we were fat during that whole time i say NUtS. We didn't hire any pilots because the company thought they could do fine with what they had. They thought that they could show that they were in a downturn when every chief pilot was screaming they needed more pilots

They looked at the 10,000 resume's on their desk and said we can start hiring anytime we want and there would be a line at the door. So they waited and waited. They had told the old MEC that only 300 pilots would be hired over the life of the contract. Now they say 500 this year.... That's fuzzy math. finally the CP's had enough and planes weren't being crewed all over the country. They said lets hire.

And nobody showed. They called all the pilots back and people by that time had found other jobs or didn't want to put their eggs in a Netjets basket. And still nobody shows.

Accept it your on the outside looking in.

 

[Diesel]

Actually you're wrong again. The owners pay our paychecks.

If we forget that we're doomed to fail. Owners and customer service are job 1.

Too bad BB will never understand customer service.

 

[FredGarvin]

If you're implying that no layoffs was due to Santulli's generosity, you've got to be kidding. Business absolutely boomed at EJA following 9/11. They needed more employees, not less.

You obviously weren't working there at the time, or you're on a different planet. I think even the hardcores will agree that Santulli showed a lot of class when he could have, and probably should have furloughed people.

Whatever, I'm sure there's no argument that the next time the economy takes a dive he won't be in that kind of mood when it comes to the IBT.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Actually you're wrong again. The owners pay our paychecks.

If we forget that we're doomed to fail. Owners and customer service are job 1.

Too bad BB will never understand customer service.

YOU'RE THE ONE THAT'S WRONG AGAIN DIESEL. Go back and look at what I said, better yet, let me copy it for you:

Another key point to remember is that Mr. Santulli signs all of our paychecks....not Jimmy Hoffa Jr.

If you want to go farther back up the chain, then yes, the owners ultimately pay our wages, but my statement is true - Mr. Santulli signs our paychecks and nowhere in the process does Jimmy Hoffa Jr. have anything to do with it.

The fact that you and your peers choose to fund Hoffa's lifestyle just makes me feel sad for you....

 

[FamilyGuy]

If you're implying that no layoffs was due to Santulli's generosity, you've got to be kidding. Business absolutely boomed at EJA following 9/11. They needed more employees, not less.

You obviously weren't working there at the time, or you're on a different planet. I think even the hardcores will agree that Santulli showed a lot of class when he could have, and probably should have furloughed people.

Whatever, I'm sure there's no argument that the next time the economy takes a dive he won't be in that kind of mood when it comes to the IBT.

Very true....especially when the union chooses to try and embarass and humiliate Mr. Santulli as a negotiating tactic rather than trying to bargain with Facts, Logic, and Reason.

 

[x402]

If you're implying that no layoffs was due to Santulli's generosity, you've got to be kidding. Business absolutely boomed at EJA following 9/11. They needed more employees, not less.

You obviously weren't working there at the time, or you're on a different planet. I think even the hardcores will agree that Santulli showed a lot of class when he could have, and probably should have furloughed people.

Whatever, I'm sure there's no argument that the next time the economy takes a dive he won't be in that kind of mood when it comes to the IBT.

They accomplished everything they needed by not hiring, with the attrition in the pilot group. In fact they were late in firing up the hiring to take care of 91k,Ooooops. If they though furloughs were needed, believe me, they wouldn't think twice. No matter what they say at the Big Events downstairs.

 

[Some Dude]

Fred you don't know crap about NJA or anything about our sales after 9/11. Business was booming for us. Some guys total lack of any real knowledge about NJA is freaking amazing. Why do some cornholes even try to give comments on NJA which they know nothing about NJA? Must be alot of management moles lurking here.

 

[FredGarvin]

They accomplished everything they needed by not hiring, with the attrition in the pilot group.

I don't know the numbers but I really doubt there was a whole lot of attrition during the year following 9/11. There was no place to go!

I guess we can disagree, all I know is he kept the promise he made at the "big event", whatever his motivation. He could have let a lot of non-pilots go as well and I don't think there would have been any bad PR with FLEX or FLOPS over that. You don't have to be, but my family and I are grateful for it.

 

[FredGarvin]

Dude,

Even Disel and Grizz agree that we were long during that period and I worked it, so I know what I'm talking about. Are you another one of those bitter new guys?


Why do some cornholes even try to give comments on NJA which they know nothing about NJA? Must be alot of management moles lurking here.

OK,.........Union Toadie......there that was mature.

 

[x402]

Been here for the whole thing. Do you think Grizz and Diesel walk on water? It was cheaper to keep us around than retrain or lose pilots. Do you think guys making 27k were coming back after they were 'furloughed.' They weren't going to lay off the BBJ guys it would have been new FO's making food stamp money, wouldn't have made any sense,

 

[Diesel]

I'll explain it again. We might have been fat for a very short time. It was so short that it wasn't worth it to furlough because they would have to retrain and repay. Not going to happen plus the PR is horrible.

Family guy are you even a pilot here? Are you even a pilot?

Hey I do enjoy all the non pilots, and 500hr wonders working up in the casino that thinks they can do what we do. Ha. When they get 2500hrs they will realize that it's not all about flying a jet. It's about providing for your family.

So keep posting on this board. Accept the fact your opinion doesn't mean shizzle. Poke at the teamsters all you want which is fine. I pay my dues to make the company play by the rules which we call a contract.

 

[Some Dude]

Fred I've been here a loooong time. Longer than most employees. Our business was booming. Again why do you post here when you don't know crap? I won't be posting on the regoinal site cause I don't know crap about the commuters. Sorry but that's the truth.

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

. Are you another one of those bitter new guys?

Once again, my dear Freddie, dont go there..... I ain't bitter, I am new, and you are sounding more and more uninformed by the minute. While a bunch of us may be new.....we've been around. Dont treat us like newly minted ATP time building wannabes..... it is not that game here.

There are places, like the airline I just left after 7+ years of anal rape, that suck worse than here. At NetJets, at least I am represented by a union and peers who have a BACKBONE... and stand up for what we are worth. Once again, sorry if you feel like you are in the crosshairs. Nothing personal, teammate.....

 

[transpac]

I was there for the whole deal and remember flying my butt off during the months following 9/11. The word I got was that business picked up in the short term for all fractionals because of security fears and hassles associated with airline travel after that event. This info was publicized in statements by EJA management officials to the aviation press. The boom leveled off after a few months, but the drastic slowdown that affected most of aviation never materialized. Compare today's NJA pilot numbers (approx 2100) to the numbers onboard on 9/11 (approx 1250) and it will be obvious that there has been no sustained downturn.

 

[FredGarvin]

Dude,
Last word on the issue (at least from my end). I've lurked on this board for a couple of years but never posted. I saw a thread named "Netjets Casino Employees". The very first line on this thread was "Netjets pilots are not your enemys." I decided to register and give my thoughts since it seemed there was some honest attempt at dialogue. I don't see the issue same as you, so what? My attitude has always been that I too want this thing settled ASAP. I've been here long enough to see that my 3% and 4% raises aren't getting any better anytime soon until management knows the cost of labor for the next 3 or 4 years. What worries me and alot of my "puzzel palace" cohorts is that perfect or not this is a pretty good gig for alot of people and some of the idiots with the STMFD attitude could screw it up for everybody. I've known alot of flight crews over the years and I always thought despite the IBT swagger, most guys saw this as not the best job, but a stable place you could hang your hat not worry about finding a new job every 5 years. It would appear that those voices aren't being heard, or those guys no longer exist. You deserve more, I hope you get it, soon. I also hope that alot of the BS goes away when the thing is signed (I fear it won't). OK, flame on......

 

[FamilyGuy]

I'll explain it again. We might have been fat for a very short time. It was so short that it wasn't worth it to furlough because they would have to retrain and repay. Not going to happen plus the PR is horrible.

Nice try at the revisionist history Diesel. Go ahead and believe your conspiracy theories if it makes you feel better, but dont fool yourself into believing that it will hold up at the bargaining table. Your group will do much better if they stick to the facts rather than resort to destructive attacks on Mr. Santulli and the company.

Family guy are you even a pilot here? Are you even a pilot?

Hey I do enjoy all the non pilots, and 500hr wonders working up in the casino that thinks they can do what we do. Ha. When they get 2500hrs they will realize that it's not all about flying a jet. It's about providing for your family.

So keep posting on this board. Accept the fact your opinion doesn't mean shizzle. Poke at the teamsters all you want which is fine. I pay my dues to make the company play by the rules which we call a contract.

I've never claimed to be a pilot. I'm just another long term casino employee that has tired of listening to you b!tch and moan about the company. I didnt start posting on this board until you and your fellow pilots started this thread aimed at us casino employees. If our opinion doesnt mean shizzle then why do you start threads aimed at us? Why do you hand out union propaganda to us at company meetings?

I find it hilarious that you union guys try and use us in your negotiations with management and then get all indignant when we see through your half-truths and outright lies that you're spreading on this board.

This is a public board....if you dont like the feedback when we call you on your BS, then go back to your private union board. We dont want to listen to your whining anymore.

 

[Diesel]

Man if you don't think the company is doing the same thing to you. Wellll.... Just look at frontpage.

the union is just trying to explain our position. It's called hearing both sides.

Not that you would want to do that though.

 

[Some Dude]

Fred if it is true you work in fort fumble then YOU have nothing to worry about. BB and RTS PROMISED you that non of the non bargaining employees will be laid off if we strike. Don't you have trust in their statements?

The fact is our OWNERS are pissed. NOT at the flight crews but at the CLUELESS FOOLS in management at NJA. The owners tell us everyday that they are TRIED OF HEARING LIES AND BROKEN PROMISES FROM COLUMBUS. I had a new owner the other day that said he was asking for his money back because he had not flown on a QS tail number the first six trips he had booked with us.
WTF, I have owner services lying to our people everyday. Marquis from a owner perspective has been a disaster. The owners are pissed that their aircraft are being chartered and they don't get squat for it. We have owners getting downgraded and chartered out so some Marquis trip can be flown instead.

We don't have enough flight crews or planes. Did you know that the company didn't even meet the new 91k deadline. They had two freaking years to meet it. NJA even spearheaded the whole 91k committee yet the fools in management couldn't even meet the deadline. Two freaking years. If I'm 15 minutes late I get a page from some stooge in CMH that doesn't know WTF is going on anyway. "Gee dumbass get off the freaking internet in CMH...look up on those big TV screens above your head and see the weather channel picture showing level 5 t-storms and the freaking airport is closed."

So, you have nothing to worry about. Keep reading the BS on the crewops website, or trying to screw some chick ya work with. Myself and all the other crew members will pick up the slack and get the job done.

It's no real mystery why the flight crews ALWAYS have the HIGHEST satisfaction rating from the owners in every survey. I truely hope that fort fumble gets it act together. Getting rid of some of the 60 plus vice-presidents would be a good start.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Man if you don't think the company is doing the same thing to you. Wellll.... Just look at frontpage.

the union is just trying to explain our position. It's called hearing both sides.

Not that you would want to do that though.

Diesel - I respect the negotiation process and understand the desire of both parties to explain their side. I appreciate being kept informed as this is very important to myself and everyone else here in the flight center. If you'll check my previous posts then you'll see that I agree that the pilots are important to the company's success and should be rewarded for their hard work.

If the union wants to explain its side, then fine, do that, but stick to the facts and dont introduce baseless allegations, emotion, and attacks on the company, its leaders, or fellow employees. That only serves to erode any support people may have for your cause.

What I do not respect is the derogatory comments that many union members have made about Mr. Santulli, management, and the company. The union has been here for over 30 years and I've never seen it as confrontational and negative as it is now.

I'm very concerned that the union has taken an extremely negative, caustic, and derogatory approach in its negotiations with managment and I dont think these tactics will help you. Would you want to compromise and give things to a group that is personally attacking you and trying to humiliate you in public?

From my perspective, the union is taking the low road and management is taking the high road by repeatedly complimenting the pilot group on its professionalism and never degrading them in public. This is in sharp contrast with the unions approach. As Boisture has said in the roundtable meetings - its about treating people with respect. I just dont see that from the union.

In the end, I'm afraid that all of these vicious attacks on Mr. Santulli, the managers, the company, and even us casino employees will cause injuries to our working relationships that will never heal. The company will never be able to get back to the great place it used to be to work.

Do I believe everything the company says? No.

Is the company perfect? No, but show me one that is. They all have warts, but NJ is better than 95% and I dont care to see anyone (pilots or non-pilots) complaining about what is a very good company. There are a lot of things we still need to work on....particularly on the people side (anyone else notice that HR took away jeans and then took credit for bringing them back?) but most of the time its stupid little stuff that doesnt really matter. The company does a really good job with the big things and that's what I care about (no layoff policy, benefits package, taking care of employees during personal crisis, etc).

 

[Diesel]

You think the company is just sticking to the facts. Ask them to explain how 106k at year 5 was such a good deal? Oh yeah we lose all benefits. yada yada yada. That's sticking to the facts.

The company dragging it's feet is what made this situation confrontational. You can blame the union all you want but it takes two to tango

From my perspective, the union is taking the low road and management is taking the high road by repeatedly complimenting the pilot group on its professionalism and never degrading them in public.

If only compliments paid the bills. It doesn't. You don't get the same memos the pilots do. the pilots maintain a 95 percent customer satisfaction every day. Upstairs knows that without us there is no netjets and no netjets experience.

Oh my god you're biggest worry is jeans at the workplace? Dude just remember Friday is Hawaiian shirt day.

 

[Hogprint]

I'm very concerned that the union has taken an extremely negative, caustic, and derogatory approach in its negotiations with managment and I dont think these tactics will help you. Would you want to compromise and give things to a group that is personally attacking you and trying to humiliate you in public?

From my perspective, the union is taking the low road and management is taking the high road by repeatedly complimenting the pilot group on its professionalism and never degrading them in public. This is in sharp contrast with the unions approach. As Boisture has said in the roundtable meetings - its about treating people with respect. I just dont see that from the union.





What appraoch would you like us to take? We tried the touchy feely approach for the better part of three years with the former MEC. We gave the company relief on EVERTHING and I mean everthing they asked for.

What did that get us?

Come on gents...read between the lines. This is negotiations...

 

[Hogprint]

Sorry FamilyGuy----This was your quote above

I screwed up the quote/reply....


BTW....can anyone give me the gouge on how I can just quote a few sentences and not the whole dang paragraph????????

 

[Starman]

Quote the whole thing and then just delete out the part you don't need.

 

[FAcFriend]

You think the company is just sticking to the facts. Ask them to explain how 106k at year 5 was such a good deal?

I think the estimate for benefits is 15k per person. Which means this offer is about 91k at year five per person with benefits.

What do you make now at year five?

 

[Hogprint]

Thanks Starman,


I did that but it did not quote the author in the box like some of the posts above.