Netjets Casino employees

[El Chupacabra]

Thanks for the offer of representation, but I've had my fill of union shops. Too much strife and arguements for me. I'd rather just come in and do my shift and go home to my family.

I'd like to go home to my family too. But the company wants me to work 40 more days per year away from home...

 

[FamilyGuy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Monkey!
Total BRK flight operations revenues per SEC filings- $3.42 billion.

Pilot cost today's contract- $125 million, doubling pay= $250 million.

For those of you that failed math in the third grade= $3.42 billion is

3,420 million dollars! thats $3,420,000,000.00!

Hey morons, $250 million is a cost of doing business and is chump change compared to the total revenue income.

They DON'T WANT TO PAY? STMFD and go fly it yourself!



Very good. that means 120 Million is just 3.5% of the total revenues for flight operations.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Family guy!
...NJ is already the highest cost provider, how much of a premium can we charge before owners go to another provider?!



There is your answer ... 3.5% MORE

Does this mean you're going to make Flight Safety pay for the increase in pilot wages? Doesnt the 3.42 billion in Flight Operations revenue include NetJets and Flight Safety?

 

[FamilyGuy]

I'd like to go home to my family too. But the company wants me to work 40 more days per year away from home...

Owner Services is hiring....doesnt pay as well as flying, but you'll have more time at home.

 

[G4dude]

Quite frankly Wolfy - we could care less what your thoughts on the issue are. You're not an employee that this thread was aimed at.

What an exceptionally childish post.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Isn't it interesting that Chuy here says it was a raise of ZERO, and someone else said it was regressive, and still others said it was meager? It sounds you guys aren't getting a consistent message from you SU boys. But then I don't suppose they would want you to be too well informed as they want to keep you hopped up so you will vote for a strike.

Well go and get-em Chuy. But don't come crying here on the board when the mediator slaps you will a year deep freeze because your SU can't figure out how to bargain in good faith.

Its no raise compared to what we get now. Its regressive compared to the failed TA.

My understanding is that the mediator is T'd at the company because they do not bargain in good faith. Thats why negotiations were halted. He probably is better at math then the people who fell for the LOS that pilots walked away from a raise in salary to 6 figures.

The same people who despite common sense and in defiance of all logic believe the LOS that the company charges our owners $1 for every $3 a selloff charter costs....

As I asked before... why have we not put every charter operator out of business if they are so much more expensive then we are? Can't you see when you are being lied to so blatantly?

Oh the Pilots walked away from 6 figures at year 5... BULLSH!!!!!!!p

Do you really believe that?

Well do you?

Thats the BS that is still posted by management.

 

[G4dude]

Its better to have fewer people who pay more than many who pay less.

Its bad for the environment to burn all this jet fuel. Airspace too crowded. Ramp space too crowded.

The entire cost of pilot salaries and benefits is LESS than the change in enroute altitude of a few thousand feet would be in fuel costs.

Pilot salaries are like fuel you just have to pay to make the jet go fast.

It boggles the mind that management is willing to destroy this company rather than pay a relatively few dollars to properly compensate pilots.

I am sure the union leaders at Eastern said the same thing.

 

[FAcFriend]

My understanding is that the mediator is T'd at the company because they do not bargain in good faith. Thats why negotiations were halted.

this is what I have heard- makes sense and it pretty simple -

If the company did not bargain in good faith then the pilots will be released from the contract in a few days. They will not make the pilots go into a deep freeze if the company has failed to negotiate because it will be punitive to the pilots.

If the pilots did not negotiate in good faith then the mediators will not punish the company but put the pilots in deep freeze. they will not make the company suffer a strike if they were trying in good faith.

If the leaders at SU believe they negotiated in good faith I wonder why they say they think they will be put on deep freeze?

I dont know the answer to these questions.
I do not know who said what, I wasnt there.

I know we will all know very soon.

 

[FAcFriend]

Pilot cost today's contract- $125 million, doubling pay= $250 million.

Note today NJW said pilots were not doubling their pay-
here in lies the problem -

I keep asking- do the pilots want to double their compensation or not? The company says yes, some pilots say no others say yes.

It would appear the pilots do not know what their union is asking for.

 

[El Chupacabra]

The union is negotiating for what the pilots want ... based on survey. I know what I asked for.

And it doesn't matter anyway because we were offered NOTHING. Not even what was offered last time. I think its safe to say we want more than nothing.

They lie and tell everyone we were offered 6 figures at yr 5. And that the pilots refused it. I wonder what the mediator thinks about that? Yet, gullible posters on this board repeat this lie... I can only surmise they believe it.

 

[dsptchrnja]

The same people who despite common sense and in defiance of all logic believe the LOS that the company charges our owners $1 for every $3 a selloff charter costs....

This again? In order to understand why NetJets looses money on sell-offs you have to include all the factors. You're only seeing it as one hour of charter vs. one hour of QS on the same type of aircraft. This is why you may be confused. Contractually NJA has to provide the owner with the same type or upgrade.

Rarely when an Excel breaks are they going to always be able to replace it with another Excel. Sometimes, but not always. We may show up with a vendored Hawker or a X and pay the Charter qoute for Hawker or X but only take in the fractional owners hourly fee for the Excel. And that's on a good day. Sometimes NJA receives $0 for the entire trip. Why? Because if we screwed something up like broke the owners Excel and couldn't provide a replacement within the gauranteed contractual time, they often get the trip free.

There are other factors but those should be enough to get you to realize that when they say, on average, they take in $1 for every $3 spent on an sell-offs, they aren't kidding. Anyone how has worked on the floor at BWY for any amount of time understands it's a red day when we are selling off trips. The company avoids it they best they can. But it will always be needed for supplemental lift purposes to meet contractual obligations as long as NJA is in business, especially during high demand periods, that is accepted.

This is why, even when demand has been so high the first quarter of this year, NJA is actually millions of $$$ in the hole. Not sure how this quarter is holding up. Considering we won't be taking substancial a/c deliveries till late summer - probably about the same.

[As I asked before... why have we not put every charter operator out of business if they are so much more expensive then we are? Can't you see when you are being lied to so blatantly?

Your theory is vague and simplistic, and sounds reasonable only because it takes no specifics into account. I could just as easily say "if Charter is so much cheaper why don't they put fractional companies out of business if they can fly the same a/c for so much less?"

 

[El Chupacabra]

I am not confused.

The company claimed that charter costs were higher than the OCCUPIED HOURLY FEES we charge owners. This is correct. However those fees are only a Fraction of the fees owners pay.

Also... 800 occupied hours per year in each airplane is a full share. Now when we selloff 100 hours to charter on that airplane... does that mean we do not fly the full 800 hours? Do we only fly 700 hours on that plane?

No we fly that 100 hours... and we put JetCard holder hours on it. We also fly EJM charter flights on these planes.

You see. We buy 100 hours of charter... but we then... in addition to the monies already paid by our owners... get to sell 100 hours that were not flown on the QS airplane. Revenues are generated. This more than compensates for the cost of selloff charter but is not mentioned.

When I fly EJM charter... are the revenues generated reckoned to NJA or EJM?

The simplistic argument was presented by management... mentioning ONLY the occupied hourly fee... not all the other monies which dwarf those fees... and the fact that the hours not flown on the owners plane are flown to create jetcard and charter revenues... and this revenue is not counted in the company's simplistic argument.

 

[Bad Monkey!]

For those that failed accounting......REVENUES do not equal PROFIT.

$120 Million in increased pay is roughly 3 times the NJ US Profit.

If you're so bright and control the scarce resource (labor) why dont you start your own airline or fractional?

Simple, you dont have the CAPITAL to get it done....that's the scarce resource.

Mr. Moisture you are right, I forgot about your golden paracute and all the Aurthur Anderson, aka Enron accounting schemes you have going on right now.

How about the one where your charging us $68.00 for a $10.00 quart of oil? The ponzi scheme will be exposed.

pay me a fair piece of the pie or I will STMFD!

 

[dsptchrnja]

Others need a substantial pay increase to be compensated fairly; they haven't had a pay raise since 1998!

Your quote is misleading. Most SIC's who wanted to work for 27K in 1998 are now making between $46K and $60K today - not taking into account overtime and per diem - and assuming he or she is still an SIC. Just because an FO starts at 27K doesn't mean he doesn't get a raise every year - even under the current contract. Not to mention the number of SIC's that started in 1998 that are now PIC's and making well above 60K. Perhaps you meant to say the contractual STARTING pay hasn't increased since 98.

The company says they went the union earlier this year and offered to raise SIC pay 20-25% on the spot, independent of the bargaining process, and were "stunned" when it was refused. What is the union's official position on this?

How much is the security of a stable, increasing, paycheck worth to you when compared to the climate of 121 operations today where pilots are taking paycuts? And if pay is the number one concern, then why doesn't your husband take a 135 job that pays more for flying the same equipment?

 

[Starman]

The company says they went the union earlier this year and offered to raise SIC pay 20-25% on the spot, independent of the bargaining process, and were "stunned" when it was refused. What is the union's official position on this?

The company can't recruit qualified pilots. They want to raise starting pay to solve that problem not because they are magnanimous. The union wants the entire pilot group to have a new contract prior to solving recruiting problems for the company. Come dsptchrNJA - even you aren't that dense.

 

[CandyMan]

you cant raise FO pay by 20 to 25% because the FO's would make just as much as a first year Captain

 

[FamilyGuy]

Originally Posted by FamilyGuy
For those that failed accounting......REVENUES do not equal PROFIT.

$120 Million in increased pay is roughly 3 times the NJ US Profit.

If you're so bright and control the scarce resource (labor) why dont you start your own airline or fractional?

Simple, you dont have the CAPITAL to get it done....that's the scarce resource.

Mr. Moisture you are right, I forgot about your golden paracute and all the Aurthur Anderson, aka Enron accounting schemes you have going on right now.

Here's an excellent example of why I've had my fill of union shops. When faced with logic they cant counter the extremists will make personal attacks on the company and management (and in the right circumstances even their union 'brothers') to divert attention away from the issues being debated. Do you honestly think Mr. Boisture needs this job? Lets face it, he's already proven himself at several other companies and probably doesnt need the money he's earning here.

How about the one where your charging us $68.00 for a $10.00 quart of oil? The ponzi scheme will be exposed.

I've seen a lot of references in this forum about NetJets funneling money out of NJA and off to other NJ companies or to other BRK companies. It seems to me that if that's the case it would be fairly easy to prove. Just show where NetJets is paying more for services than other companies. After all, we are the 800 pound gorilla, so we should get the best price, right? I dont know what oil or flight training costs, but since we are the biggest i would think we should have good rates. We can all sit around and b1tch about the high cost of services, but if everyone else is paying more than we are then you cant really claim that NetJets is funneling money somewhere or this is some big ponzi scheme.

pay me a fair piece of the pie or I will STMFD!

Another excellent example of why I got tired of working in a union shop. Everyone agrees you should get a raise, the question is how much. What exactly is your definition of a fair piece of the pie? Double your salary? Triple?

If you're truly that bitter then maybe you should find a career that is a better fit for you.

 

[CandyMan]

Netjets could make a hell of a lot more money if they really wanted too! The waist on the road is absolutely crazy. The folks sitting in the air conditioned/heated "Puzzle Palace" don't see this picture.

The unnecessary ferry flights, hotels, per diem,airline flights, Overtime, Mx, the 100 dollar quarts of oil, Flight Safety charging Netjets more for training than its other customers, airline flights for carpet dances that should have been handled with a phone call

this list goes on and on and on and on forever. The company waists millions each day and no one fixes the problems.

If your sitting in the puzzle palace don't fool yourself. This company blows unneccesary millions each day.

Last I checked the pilots want this stuff fixed. Pilots aren't the ones waisting the money here. Phone call after phone call from the pilots to the puzzle palace with ideas during the day on how to save money and all they get is the answer YOU DONT HAVE THE BIG PICTURE. Thats a gd joke

 

[dsptchrnja]

The company can't recruit qualified pilots. They want to raise starting pay to solve that problem not because they are magnanimous.
The union wants the entire pilot group to have a new contract prior to solving recruiting problems for the company. Come dsptchrNJA - even you aren't that dense.

you cant raise FO pay by 20 to 25% because the FO's would make just as much as a first year Captain

Interesting, two different answers to one question on the Union's position. Either the Union doesn't have an official position on the issue or they have two positions. Or are these your own opinions?

Furthermore, let's not have any more debate on why SIC's are underpaid and the sad stories about food stamps. You have sufficiently given all the answers I need to understand the issue.... The company CAN'T give a raise to them because the union won't allow it - and to think it was regardless of contract negotiations. I wonder how SIC's feel about the Union's representing them this way?

Even if the company wanted to increase pay to attract more qualified pilots, for the union stand in the way of this seems to counteract their purpose.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Another excellent example of why I got tired of working in a union shop. Everyone agrees you should get a raise, the question is how much. What exactly is your definition of a fair piece of the pie? Double your salary? Triple?.

I say Double is about right. I don't agree with those who say QS stands for Quarter Salary

 

[dsptchrnja]

Netjets could make a hell of a lot more money if they really wanted too! The waist on the road is absolutely crazy. The folks sitting in the air conditioned/heated "Puzzle Palace" don't see this picture.

The unnecessary ferry flights, hotels, per diem,airline flights, Overtime, Mx, the 100 dollar quarts of oil, Flight Safety charging Netjets more for training than its other customers, airline flights for carpet dances that should have been handled with a phone call

this list goes on and on and on and on forever. The company waists millions each day and no one fixes the problems.

If your sitting in the puzzle palace don't fool yourself. This company blows unneccesary millions each day.

Last I checked the pilots want this stuff fixed. Pilots aren't the ones waisting the money here. Phone call after phone call from the pilots to the puzzle palace with ideas during the day on how to save money and all they get is the answer YOU DONT HAVE THE BIG PICTURE. Thats a gd joke

It gets tiring explaining how this company operates in order to achieve excellent customer service. There are plenty of good reasons why you are told you don't have the big picture - mainly it's because the big picture is required to understand the reasons behind the decision making and no one has a half-hour to explain it to you, they just ask you do do your job and trust them to do theirs without being second-guessed. What you call wasting money is what you would actually call excellent customer service if you knew what you were talking about.

If this isn't good enough for you at least come up and sit with the SOC for a half a day so you can see for yourself all the kinds of unbelievable situations that come up and how they get resolved. It's what separates us from the wannabees. This is a service industry. It's about serving the people in the back remember? If this means making an "unnecessary" ferry flight to back up a revenue trip, then so be it. For all you know, it was the right business decision even if we ended up loosing a buck.

On the flip side, this is not to say crews on the road don't have good ideas, I have personally seen some of these ideas come to fruition as early as a couple of weeks ago. The idea was routed through the right channels, and taken seriously.