Netjets Announces Aircraft Order

[NJAowner]

Signing contracts for the purchase of new aircraft is great. However, signing contracts for the sale of those aircraft to owners is what is needed. Having the newest, greatest, most efficient fleet in the business means nothing if very few will fly it. The fact is to keep some owners, NJ is lengthening the age of its existing fleet as very few owners are willing to pony up new $$$ to buy a new share. For example, many Excels which were to be retired out of the fleet at 10 years have been extended to 15 years to keep the owners around for another 5 years instead of leaving the program.

 

[AftCG182]

So my company finally gives me something to feel good about and you want me apologize because it affects a competitor?

Next time something positive takes place at Avantair and YOU come on here and post, I'm going to give you s**t because that'd hurt the competition.

and not that I care , but what the hell did I say that offended you anyway?

You didn't say anything to offended me. Sorry if it came off that way. After re-reading my post, I can see how my words could be taken out of context.

I wasn't knocking the individual pilots in your group. But, with that whopper of an order, the entire Fractional dynamic as a whole will never be the same. Thank goodness our Piaggio fills a niche that won't be affected by the aircraft types in the press release.

 

[AftCG182]

As if NJA doesn't already have 495 pilots on furlough? Myself included. You don't have to be a jerk.

No disrespect was intended. I apologize if you were. Again, not my intent.

edit to add: My wishes all along have been for the Frac industry to have NO pilots on the street. Maybe this purchase might accellerate the return of some of the 495, but it's going to be at the cost of crews elsewhere. No net gain...

 

[jonjuan]

No disrespect was intended. I apologize if you were. Again, not my intent.

edit to add: My wishes all along have been for the Frac industry to have NO pilots on the street. Maybe this purchase might accellerate the return of some of the 495, but it's going to be at the cost of crews elsewhere. No net gain...

The existence of your company is responsible for a number of furloughs across the industry, in case you are dense. It is just business, however.

 

[AftCG182]

The existence of your company is responsible for a number of furloughs across the industry, in case you are dense. It is just business, however.

True. The difference is that we prospered through a superior product, combined with an efficient, publically traded, transparent business model. We didn't bully our way to domination thanks to the bottomless pockets of a financial backer.

As you reiterated, it IS just business. And, just as I did when CitationAir fell upon hard times, I'm going to offer a helping hand to anyone looking to avoid unemployment due to this fiasco. We're still hiring, albeit into a pool. PM me a resume and I'll help as much as I can.

Thanks-

 

[BentOver]

True. The difference is that we prospered through a superior product,

:erm:

 

[RP170]

:erm:

Exactly my thoughts.

 

[t-bone]

Any word on how many airframes get turned into Bombardier/Cessna for each new aircraft delivered?

 

[CE750Driver]

Exactly my thoughts.

LOL. Then you picked the wrong pony.

Netjets dominated. They won.

Even with the union.

All their competitors have been marginalized.

X-O, Avantair. They are always going to be small. Its their model.

Deal with it, and move on.

If, not. Explain how I am wrong.

 

[BentOver]

LOL. Then you picked the wrong pony.

Netjets dominated. They won.

Even with the union.

All their competitors have been marginalized.

X-O, Avantair. They are always going to be small. Its their model.

Deal with it, and move on.

If, not. Explain how I am wrong.

The phrase "out of left field" comes to mind... As in "what the heck are you talking about"? I'm fairly certain RP has worked at NJA

 

[imacdog]

True. The difference is that we prospered through a superior product, combined with an efficient, publically traded, transparent business model. We didn't bully our way to domination thanks to the bottomless pockets of a financial backer.

Is your internal D-bag filter MEL'd or something?

 

[RP170]

The phrase "out of left field" comes to mind... As in "what the heck are you talking about"? I'm fairly certain RP has worked at NJA

Yeah I'm confused there as well since I did work for NJA.

 

[jtf]

Any word on how many airframes get turned into Bombardier/Cessna for each new aircraft delivered?

No word on that or if there are no compete clauses or owner swaps or anything else. As far as turn ins goes, they never really announced the whole agreements with Embraer or Bombardier on the Phenom or Global orders. All we know for sure is that Embraer has taken 25 Ultras and Bombardier has taken ownership of 20 Hawker 800s, 10 Xs, some 2000 classics and probably some other airframes since the Global order. Nobody has said if the original agreements include taking more trade ins as the airframes come online.
Business details are guarded a lot more under the post Santulli regime. All I know is that the company plans on disposing of around 50 airframes a year and actual growth or shrinkage is supposed to be based on actual sales, not forecast sales. The new airplanes only get delivered once they are already sold. Getting rid of old airframes will be the driver of sales of new ones. The old ones just won't be resold to owners so if they want to stay with NJA, they will eventually have to buy new. These entire huge orders and any more in the future are so easy to delay or cancel that they in no way imply growth. They can allow growth, but they aren't dependent on it. NetJets can take every option spread out over time and the various divisions and still be smaller than today.

 

[jetlag7]

disregard...

 

[ultrarunner]

This order will insure a continued supply of roached out, high-time airframes on the used market, so definitely something for anyone out there...

 

[CE750Driver]

Yeah I'm confused there as well since I did work for NJA.

Wow. Read that one wrong. Apologies.

Can't find the edit button for some reason.

I feel really bad for the guys at Flex. This really does seem like the beginning of the end. I don't think any of us have the real plan.

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

That EMB 500 looks like a nice bird with the interesting FBW/sidesticks. But isn't it roughly the same size/performance as a CL300? How does the addition of the EMB 500 improve efficiency and reduce fleet complexity?

I received a close look at the 500 Legacy...at 19 million it will be a game changer in cost of operations.

 

[Downwind]

I received a close look at the 500 Legacy...at 19 million it will be a game changer in cost of operations.

How much is a Challenger 300?

 

[cldsfr79]

But what will the "fractional" business look like in a few years? It seems to be changing to more of a 135/managed model (i.e., like XOJet and Citation Air).... Will Netjets have to change its model to more of an XOJet model with fewer financial commitments from customers (i.e., must buy a 1/4 or 1/16th share to participate)? Morph to more of a Marquis Card model in the future?

It does appear that the market at this time is shifting to less risk and asset holding for a jet owner/user. We have companies such as EJM growing (hiring and obtaining more aircraft on their certificate) while genuine fractional ownership suffers. Even NJE has announced a management program and according to AIN magazine, NJ china looks to be a management style operation, at least at first.

But....

Once the economy recovers.....if it recovers....I think things will start to recover for the fractionals. While Citation Air is aggressively shifting it's model and Flex seems to be shifting too; NJA appears to stay on course as a fractional provider. Owners who have sold their shares to acquire a wholly owned plane and then manage it will soon realize that the cheap used plane they bought comes at a very high operating expense. Wait until they have to start buying engines, or get stuck in the middle of no-where. And owners who have down sized to flying charter and on cards will realize that owning a plane (a fraction) does have its cost advantages over renting. There will always be avantages to fractional ownership. Why buy a whole used citation X, and be responsible for maintenance, staffing, insurance, and asset devaluing, when you can own a 1/4 or 1/8 of a Falcon or G5 (now a challenger or Global) with less stress. You manage that fraction with a phone call and that's it.

 

[jonjuan]

I received a close look at the 500 Legacy...at 19 million it will be a game changer in cost of operations.

The Hawker 4000 is/was a game changer. Just saying.