Net Jets to Furlough 500...??? Right...

[jppt2000]

Fractional models are like a pyramid scheme where they HAVE to continue to grow or the whole thing collapses. You have to sell new shares so you can sell old planes at profit and keep the operation going.

Guess what? The used plane market has tanked. Still yuk'n it up? Not one of the fractionals have a sustainable business model, possibly save one. When the new sales dry up and the ability to sell aircraft to shore up cash flow ceases then it's gonna get tough.

Gotta get back to my village now...

enjoy....

Glass, which fractional with the sustainable business model are you referring to?

 

[HazMat]

you are speculating that netjets made 200 to 250 million in 07 and was on a similar track in 08 but Berkshire choose not to break them out financially like they did in 06 and like they do with everyone of their successful Companies. That really doesn't make sense. If the business was growing like that in profits I cant imagine they wouldn't have broken them out financially. I believe that Netjets must do well for the entire industry to do well so I wish that were true but it is highly unlikely.

 

[jppt2000]

Kind of hard to understand why Netjets financials aren't broken out in 2007 and 2008 like they were in prior years for example in 2006.

"NetJets generated pre-tax earnings of $143 million in 2006 as compared to a pre-tax loss of $80 million in 2005 reflecting a 23% increase in flight..."

It obviously was good news in 2006 compared to 2005. You would have thought if that trend continued we would have seen similar reporting in 2007. The fact is we have no idea what the pre tax earnings are in 2007 and 2008. We are all making assumptions since Netjets earnings are not specified after 2006. It is interesting that they are not broken out though after the pattern was set to do so in 2006.

Actually this is pathetic.
Now a conspiracy theorist, who just happens to fly a P180, maybe for the same fractional with possibly the only "sustainable business model" has voiced another fact filled opinion.
Now we have a village missing an idiot and a moron, with laptops.
Someone draw them a map please, preferably in crayon.

 

[HazMat]

No conspiracy just pointing out the obvious facts. You have me wrong I am a fan of Netjets and trully root for their success. Netjets success will only help us grow

 

[glasspilot]

Know how to tell who is losing an argument? It's the guy that starts with the profanity and name calling.

Village idiot? Moron? Conspiracy theorist?

What did I say that so touched a nerve? That I thought NetJets never made money? That possibly only one fractional possibly had a sustainable business model?

Golly Gosh, lighten up francis'es!

 

[gunfyter]

you are speculating that netjets made 200 to 250 million in 07 and was on a similar track in 08 but Berkshire choose not to break them out financially like they did in 06 and like they do with everyone of their successful Companies. That really doesn't make sense. If the business was growing like that in profits I cant imagine they wouldn't have broken them out financially. I believe that Netjets must do well for the entire industry to do well so I wish that were true but it is highly unlikely.

The information to deduce (not speculate) is available on Berkshire's website. It was posted in this forum at the time the Quarterly reports were issued. If I have time I will look it up again and do the math ....

Here is a Clue for you though. Loss of $90M in 2005 reported due to over $100M in Charter costs for the year.

With the New, more efficient 2005 CBA ... Chartering was reduced to nearly ZERO. That puts you in profit all by itself for 2006.

2007 record sales and utilization with nearly zero charter costs.... Europe moves into profit.

 

[gunfyter]

Here is an example

BRK 2Q Report​

http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/qtrly/2ndqtr07.pdf​

Revenues from the other service businesses in the second quarter and first six months of 2007 increased $530 million (35%) and $869 million (32%), respectively, compared to 2006. Pre-tax earnings in the second quarter and first six months increased $74 million (36%) and $152 million (57%), respectively, compared to 2006. These results were primarily due to significantly improved results at NetJets as fractional sales and flight operations revenues for the first six months of 2007 increased $474 million over 2006. Pre-tax earnings of NetJets for the first six months of 2007 were $109 million in 2007 compared to $29 million in 2006. In 2007, operating margins increased reflecting higher aircraft utilization rates as revenue flight hours increased approximately 15%. Also contributing to the improved results of NetJets were the effects of price increases and a change in the mix of aircraft flown. The number of aircraft managed within the NetJets program over the past twelve months increased 15%.​

This breaks down to $80M INCREASE in profit during first 6 months of 2007 compared with 2006.

$55 M Increase for the first Quarter and a $25M increase for the 2nd quarter.

Profit in 2006 stated in the annual report was $143. Doing a little math .. that means profit for the LAST six months of 2006 were $114M.

$114M + $109M = $223M in profit over last 12 months!
__________________

 

[HazMat]

can you please point out in the last quarter were Netjets net earnings are broken out or even the quarter before that. you are looking at very old financials. At times when the financials were in fact broken out and they were good. These are two years old. That was my point.

 

[jppt2000]

Know how to tell who is losing an argument? It's the guy that starts with the profanity and name calling.

Village idiot? Moron? Conspiracy theorist?

What did I say that so touched a nerve? That I thought NetJets never made money? That possibly only one fractional possibly had a sustainable business model?

Golly Gosh, lighten up francis'es!

Profanity? Where?
Actually when folks like glasspilot and yourself, post completely biased, doomsday opinions of Netjets, I am left with no other option than to think your village misses you.
You post such gloomy forecasts based on information glasspilot was either too lazy or inept to obtain himself. Ultimately, he/she had to be given that information.
Your well thought out analysis inferring there is a conspiracy to cover-up Netjets' earnings conveniently jives with your earlier opinion.
You and Glass should get together and consult to "breaking news" cable TV networks as aviation crash experts. The way you form opinions and jump to conclusions would fit right in.

 

[gunfyter]

Go to Berkshire's website and look yourself.

All the information was good until last summer.

They don't always give specific numbers its true and tend not to speak if things are not as good.

But I don't see the point is looking at last quarter... or the Quarter before that. We are in a recession. Show me good numbers in ANY business for that period. Besides the Repo-man :crying:. Nobody is saying results are good for the last couple of quarters....

If you think NJ is not a sustainable business ... A lot of other businesses must really be skating on thin-ice....

 

[amaineiac]

Guys, take a step back for a minute and think about this. Do you honestly think WB, who is arguably one of the greatest investors of all time and one of the richest people on the planet, would buy a company that has never made any money? Unlike any of us, he's seen the books, and he actually understands what the numbers mean.

 

[jonjuan]

Guys, take a step back for a minute and think about this. Do you honestly think WB, who is arguably one of the greatest investors of all time and one of the richest people on the planet, would buy a company that has never made any money? Unlike any of us, he's seen the books, and he actually understands what the numbers mean.

http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/1996.html

When Richard Branson, the wealthy owner of Virgin Atlantic Airways, was asked how to become a millionaire, he had a quick answer: "There's really nothing to it. Start as a billionaire and then buy an airline." Unwilling to accept Branson's proposition on faith, your Chairman decided in 1989 to test it by investing $358 million in a 9.25% preferred stock of USAir.

I liked and admired Ed Colodny, the company's then-CEO, and I still do. But my analysis of USAir's business was both superficial and wrong. I was so beguiled by the company's long history of profitable operations, and by the protection that ownership of a senior security seemingly offered me, that I overlooked the crucial point: USAir's revenues would increasingly feel the effects of an unregulated, fiercely-competitive market whereas its cost structure was a holdover from the days when regulation protected profits. These costs, if left unchecked, portended disaster, however reassuring the airline's past record might be. (If history supplied all of the answers, the Forbes 400 would consist of librarians.)

By the way, $159 a share in 1975. Uggh.....I'll take 10.

 

[Hawker dude]

this thread is gay

 

[Hawker dude]

sorry, this thread should be over

 

[Hawker dude]

is XO Jet out of business yet?