Net Jets Offers

[wolfpackpilot]

Why are NJI FOs making so much more than F2000 or G200 FOs when they frequently fly many of the same routes or substitute for each other?

2 can play this game:

Why are BBJ FO's making so much more than NJI FO's when they freguently fly many of the same routes or substitute for each other?




Answer: its called the food chain

 

[Heavy Set]

2 can play this game:

Why are BBJ FO's making so much more than NJI FO's when they freguently fly many of the same routes or substitute for each other?




Answer: its called the food chain

No need to get that defensive. Fine, then pay the BBJ FO the same as the GIV/GV FO. In the part 91 world, these positions are compensated much better. This is not a race here, we are talking about paying pilots their fair market value. Do you really think $60K per year for a 5th year Citation X Captain is fair? Does anyone think that is fair? Would you be upset if you were on that side of the fence and were paid that amount to fly a Citation X? If they are not paid what they are worth, then they will leave - and that is why NJA is experiencing such attrition. No big surprise.

Alright Wolfpack, tell me this - why should NJA pilots not be allowed to fly everything from the Ultra to the GV when their counterparts at NJE can fly everything from the Bravo to the GV? There is no logical rationale for that difference. What rationale can be used to keep the two divisions separate in your mind given the overlap in operations and the frequent substitution of aircraft from both fleets?

 

[GVFlyer]

Alright Wolfpack, tell me this - why should NJA pilots not be allowed to fly everything from the Ultra to the GV when their counterparts at NJE can fly everything from the Bravo to the GV? There is no logical rationale for that difference. What rationale can be used to keep the two divisions separate in your mind given the overlap in operations and the frequent substitution of aircraft from both fleets?

Easy answer. It's a thing called scope. When EJI/NJI was formed in 1995 the Teamsters agreed and wrote into the EJA/NJA contract that the Gulfstream operation would be an exception to scope. NJI is currently an autonomous company with their own president, dispatch and maintenance operations chartered in South Carolina, a Right to Work state (which means they cannot be forced into a union - they have to vote it on board). NJI has no greater relationship to NJA than do the vendors you sell trips off to or than NetJets Large Aircraft which is an independent operating company flying BBJ's with their own work rules and pay schedules chartered in Bradley, Connecticut.

GV

 

[loverobot]

Easy answer. It's a thing called scope. When EJI/NJI was formed in 1995 the Teamsters agreed and wrote into the EJA/NJA contract that the Gulfstream operation would be an exception to scope. NJI is currently an autonomous company with their own president, dispatch and maintenance operations chartered in South Carolina, a Right to Work state (which means they cannot be forced into a union - they have to vote it on board). NJI has no greater relationship to NJA than do the vendors you sell trips off to or than NetJets Large Aircraft which is an independent operating company flying BBJ's with their own work rules and pay schedules chartered in Bradley, Connecticut.

GV

Really? I had no idea they were so seperate. Was it the paint scheme, the QS tailnumbers, the employee ID's, the advertisements, the trading up and down of fleets, the Berkshire thing, the Santulli thing, the white plains and TEB thing. Somehow these companies are kept seperate when its convienent, and included together when its convienent. News Flash: you all work for the same company.

 

[HotelMonkey]

PARK THEM!

 

[linder]

Sounds like frustration is setting in since it was disclosed to the membership that NJA is refusing to even negotiate the Gulfstream subject.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Cost of Living Adjustments since the contract became amendable:

YEAR......COLA
2001......2.6%
2002......1.4%
2003......2.1%
2004......2.7%
Total......8.8%

Source: Social Security Administration
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/colaseries.html

Oh and your math is wrong above. The effect of COLAs is NOT additive.

BTW, better take a course in statistics or Math 101, before you make more of a fool of yourself adding inflation rates.

If you guys are so worried about the precise way cola compounds itself, then why didnt you correct the union people who did the simple addition in the first place, rather than fall all over yourselves to point this minor issue out when I correct their COLA figures?

And if you want the precise impact, based on compounding, then its 9.08% instead of 8.8%....

Looks like that company raise isnt as bad as you want to paint it....

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Anybody else see a comparison with NJ and New Orleans? I mean jesus just let them sit in their own pi$$ and $hit. The company is doing the same to us.

FacFriend wants to show us how strong they are and drive the pilots out of the buisness. Sorry it's netjets aviation. Without the pilots it's just poor customer service and crappy scheduling.

Yeah it's elitist but so what. Negotiations have stalled because the company won't even provide a decent livable wage. Spin it any way you want but it's just sad. Just shows how much they respect the pilots. Let it burn like New Orleans.

Gooose pull the handle!

Diesel, first, let me start by saying that i've enjoyed all of your previous post.

I think you might consider a retraction on this one. Comparing the raise you are looking for or the relative conditions that you endure flying a private jet, to the plight and death of the people in Louisiana is insane and insensitive. I have never seen such a distasteful and insensitive post.

Ace

 

[BE200Driver]

I am an outsider to all the NJ arguments but have a couple questions.

1. Does NJ disclose what the payscales are before employment?

2. Does the value of a NJ pilot increase over time?

3. Does NJ keep anyone from making their own decisions regarding their career path?

4. If I told you that my boss hasen't given me a raise in the last two years, wouldn't the majority of NJ guys here tell me to stop crying and get another job if I didn't like it?

No flame please (lol, I can't wait to see it). But who is holding a gun to anyone's head at NJ? Just curious.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

No need to get that defensive.

Alright Wolfpack, tell me this - why should NJA pilots not be allowed to fly everything from the Ultra to the GV when their counterparts at NJE can fly everything from the Bravo to the GV? There is no logical rationale for that difference. What rationale can be used to keep the two divisions separate in your mind given the overlap in operations and the frequent substitution of aircraft from both fleets?

Heavy,

No defense at all, I’m only pointing out what I see is the obvious. I'm personally happy to see the BBJ scale where they are. I think those wages are well deserved by the pilots.

To answer your question. Setting aside the fact NJE was created as a single company to operate all NJE aircraft, there is a pecking order over there. New hires don’t waltz right into the G planes, just as NJA new hires don’t get 737 types.

The rationale to have created NJI has been expounded on threads for years. My only thought on why it remains separate is economics. NJI is a viable resource to NetJets if and when they wanted to raise cash through a sell off . Because we operate 1 aircraft type, (and will only) have our own infrastructure, etc. we are a pre-packaged deal if and when that time ever came. Of course this is my own opinion, which doesn’t mean much.

Once NJA receives a pay raise, combined with larger aircraft (BBJ, Falcon’s, I see them both all over Europe) you guys will slowly but surely forget about 42 Gulfstreams operated by a bunch of (what you call) “Old Farts”. And this unnecessary bitter and useless argument will finally be put to bed.

Fly Safe Heavy,



Wolfpack

(vs. Virginia tonight at 7:45pm)