Net Jets Offers

[wolfpackpilot]

News Flash: you all work for the same company.

You are incorrect sir. NJA and NJI are completely separate companies which are owned and operated by the same corporation. NetJets is in turn owned by Berkshire Hathaway who also owns major shares of Geico and Dairy Queen.

If your statement about working for the same company were true, we should all be flying in a DQ uniform and get free car insurance.

 

[You're right]

PARK THEM!

Nah, no thanks Monkey--- "park them" implies "all" of them. Let's make it "some of them" and see what happens. (I'm not singling you out Monkey. I've read some of your posts and you seem level headed) Diesel, on the other hand, you've been here what 2, maybe 3 years. Do you think your "number" is high enough?

The company management understands the severity of what's going on (slowdown) and I can not imagine will stand for it much longer. The BUSINESS can not stand for it much longer (losing owners, long delays, etc).

This is now bigger than a "pay raise", as some of you have already started to see and understand. Your current union leadership does not want a pay raise and better schedules for its members. The current leadership wants the chance to unionize the entire fractional industry under their new union. This will NOT work with a SERVICE company. You guys are simply pawns in the little chess game you think is "pay/scope".

"Tick tock" to Diesel/Fracster and the rest that don't understand the real game. Looks like I will be lucky to not have the "protection" of a union number.

Never thought I would say this but "size doesn't matter".

 

[abenaki]

CMHTROLL


You are a gifted propagandist, no doubt of that. My guess is that you are "Bridgeway Bob" or closely affiliated with him.

But, just because you SAY something doesn't make it true. "Spin" does not equate to the truth.

The current MEC did not sabotage the "POSTA" of last year. If you had attended the road shows, you would have seen the PILOTS anger at what was being force-fed to them. I am not going to relate the deficiencies of that TA because it has been thrashed around so much already.....suffice to say that it was, in many ways, a REGRESSIVE contract and recognized as such by 82% of the pilots.

To say that management has "negotiated in good faith" flies in the face of their admitted delays in the last 4 years, their walking out of negotiations the other day not to return until lat ein the afternoon and YOUR failure to answer my direct question at the beginning of this thread as to whether offering LESS today than a year ago is considered "negotiating in good faith"......clearly, it is not.

The union busting campaign is just that. RTS and BB did not bring in a well-known union busting law firm without a reason. Their intent is to bust the union which is made of pilots and their families and their intent is not to negotiate in good faith.

The problem is that we have all seen these tactics before for nearly thirty years in this industry. The plays are all old and of no suprise. The current FUD campaign is just another play out of the book. BB saying that we are the cause of why he can't hire enough pilots and then threatens furloughs is plain contradictory.....He can't get enough pilots so he's goingto furlough? Huh?



There is obviously little that can be reasoned on this board. The tensions are too high and the anxiety and frustration make decent "conversation" impossible.

So, I am outta here....

Take care...God bless us ALL for each one of us, whether CMH employee or pilot is at the mercy of this process that could be ended in 4 hours of negotiations according to the negotiating team....the rest is just gamesmanship.

Buh bye, now.

 

[hydrarkt]

abenaki, don't go. Your posts are true and correct and allow others to view what is really happening.. not the spin spewed by CMHTroll and FamilyGuy.

About NJI.. it's not that the pilot's of NJA care about flying a GV. It's not that the Teamsters want more members. We want single carrier status because we, the pilots at NJA, want to keep our jobs. NetJets management, aka Santulli, would have no qualms about shutting down NJA and moving everything to NJI, even though it would make no financial sense, just because of his ego and desire to have a no union shop. THAT is the main reason we want single carrier status... to protect our jobs. Is that too much to ask??

 

[cgmason1]

2 can play this game:

Why are BBJ FO's making so much more than NJI FO's when they freguently fly many of the same routes or substitute for each other?

Answer: its called the food chain

Actually if you compare the two-NJI F/O's make more.
Whats first year pay on the BBJ as an F/O- around 50K.
Whats first year pay on the GIV/GV- 65K or more.
I know there are no first year F/O's on the BBJ-but since your comparing pay scales.

Bottom line is NJA Mgt blows.
They do not understand taking care of their people and that a work force that has good morale is good for your company.

What comes around goes around.

Fly Safe
Chuck

 

[abenaki]

Thank you hydrarkt....your comments are much appreciated. However, I find the focus here to be one that my life can do without.

I will however, add one more thing......


This whole negotiations comes down to the NJA pilots wanting nothing more than their counterparts at NJI or NJE.....

That means:

Similar pay.

Similar benefits such as fly from home.

RTS et al are willing to give these things to those entities yet somehow cannot do the same for us.

So, it is clear that these negotiations have nothing to do with money in that some of what we ask for costs LESS than what is currently being done...i.e. everyone knows that the 7/7 schedule is more efficient than the 17-day schedule yet we've fought for 4 years to obtain it.

This whole thing is about power, control and ego. RTS reportedly hates unions and this is his attempt at breaking ours. Whether he chooses to flush his company to achieve that goal is up to him and his union busting lawyers.

It would not be the first time in history that someone's ego unnecessarily trashed a fine company and one that I have been proud to work for. We will have to see if he is willing to do that.

To pretend that the company has negotiated in good faith while offering less and less at the table is pure fantasy and spin. To pretend that we are not grossly underpaid is also pure fiction when all's you have to do is compare our salaries to that of NJE pilots flying the same aircraft or recognize that their offer of the 10th percentile of NBAA standards is grossly low.

Walking out of negotiations that THEY asked for early in the day and then not returning until 4PM is not reflective of a group desiring to complete the contract. It is pure gamesmanship of the most vile form.

May God have mercy.......

 

[FAcFriend]

Walking out of negotiations that THEY asked for early in the day and then not returning until 4PM is not reflective of a group desiring to complete the contract. It is pure gamesmanship of the most vile form.

.....

You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Diesel]

FacFriend you do?

Please enlighten us how you know more than we do?

 

[BE200Driver]

I am an outsider to all the NJ arguments but have a couple questions.

1. Does NJ disclose what the payscales are before employment?

2. Does the value of a NJ pilot increase over time?

3. Does NJ keep anyone from making their own decisions regarding their career path?

4. If I told you that my boss hasen't given me a raise in the last two years, wouldn't the majority of NJ guys here tell me to stop crying and get another job if I didn't like it?

No flame please (lol, I can't wait to see it). But who is holding a gun to anyone's head at NJ? Just curious.

Guess nobody can answer some simple questions? LOL

 

[Heavy Set]

Heavy,

No defense at all, I’m only pointing out what I see is the obvious. I'm personally happy to see the BBJ scale where they are. I think those wages are well deserved by the pilots.

To answer your question. Setting aside the fact NJE was created as a single company to operate all NJE aircraft, there is a pecking order over there. New hires don’t waltz right into the G planes, just as NJA new hires don’t get 737 types.

The rationale to have created NJI has been expounded on threads for years. My only thought on why it remains separate is economics. NJI is a viable resource to NetJets if and when they wanted to raise cash through a sell off . Because we operate 1 aircraft type, (and will only) have our own infrastructure, etc. we are a pre-packaged deal if and when that time ever came. Of course this is my own opinion, which doesn’t mean much.

Once NJA receives a pay raise, combined with larger aircraft (BBJ, Falcon’s, I see them both all over Europe) you guys will slowly but surely forget about 42 Gulfstreams operated by a bunch of (what you call) “Old Farts”. And this unnecessary bitter and useless argument will finally be put to bed.

Fly Safe Heavy,



Wolfpack

(vs. Virginia tonight at 7:45pm)

Wolfpack,

I appreciate your response. It's not as inflamatory as those from others on the board and I appreciate that. I will say that I did actually meet a NJE GV FO at IAD who had started on that aircraft having flown for a large European airline previously. Perhaps that was the exception and not the rule, but it does happen.

While I realize NJI and NJA are two distinct operations at the moment, I wonder why that has to be the case beyond the original scope and Gulfstream/NJA agreement issues. There is probably a lot of redundancy and overlap that could be removed from the system - right? Again, the Gulfstreams substitute for smaller NJA aircraft and vice versa all of the time. So, I don't see much operational benefit to keeping the two separate - NJE seems to work just fine with all of the aircraft types operated side by side...