Net Jets Offers

[CE750Driver]

Familyguy,

Uhhhhh, cause it wasnt fair.....
You are a complete and total tool.

BTW, better take a course in statistics or Math 101, before you make more of a fool of yourself adding inflation rates.

 

[FAcFriend]

FacFriend wants to show us how strong they are and drive the pilots out of the buisness. Sorry it's netjets aviation. Without the pilots it's just poor customer service and crappy scheduling.

Gooose pull the handle!

Diesel,
I am not showing strength here. I am just agreeing with you. I dont think it can work- you guys know. Its all management's fault. mismanagement. wasteful spending. ok...

Pilots win...

unemployment.

 

[El Chupacabra]

We heard this same song at United in 1989

 

[Ultra Grump]

Why are you including inflation for the period covered by the last contract (99-01) and then including inflation for the 4 years for the new contract?

Wasnt COLA figured into the previous contract for the time period covered under the contract - 98-01?

And as I posted in another thread, COLA for the 4 years from 01-04 totaled only 8.8%.

Actually, Cost-of-Living is NOT included in the current CBA. If it were, there would be the payscale we have now (YOS = Year of Signing), and several others that are for YOS+1, YOS+2, YOS+3, which would include a Cost of Living increase. This is the way it's done at airlines, and I was floored when I got here and saw we didn't have it. Stupid in my opinion. So a pilot (any seat, any year of service) in 1998 had SIGNIFICANTLY more buying power than a pilot today with the same seat/year.

So for example, a 5th year captain in 1998 made $60984. A 5th year captain in 2001 still made $60984. A 5th year captain in 2005 makes $60984. If the 1998 pilot bought something for $1000, for the 2001 pilot to buy the same item should have cost $1088. For the 2005 pilot to buy that item, it should cost $1157 or more, since there is no data on the actual 2005 COLA. So no, there has been no COLA on our rates, and yes, ALL the time covered by the CBA is affected by Cost of Living increases.

 

[CMHTroll]

We heard this same song at United in 1989

And the Union Leader Let the employees on striles that drove away the business traveler, and convinced everyone thatthe employees could run the company. Because as everyone knows, pilots know how to do everything. And so now United is bankrupt but the pilots are proud. Amazing. Chupacabra, would you like to see NetJets go bankrupt?

There are always some people who build and some people tear down. Let's gert er done and get on with building.

 

[El Chupacabra]

that is not what happened. There were no furloughs. The threatened cancellation of aircraft orders did not occur... infact even more were ordered and RECORD profits followed.

 

[Heavy Set]

NJA’s employee relations situation is the creation of your MEC. Management has put an offer on that table last year and it was sabotaged by Strong Union who became your MEC. Every organization has waste and everyone works on keeping waste under control. That includes giving pilots good crew food but denying elk steaks with béarnaise sauce and caviar. Yes, ordered as crew food.

As for Herb Keller, I am sure that his opinion would be; “ Do not to let a group of people inside or outside try and hold the company hostage. Not bankers not employees, no one.” Management has always bargained in good faith, and worked hard to maintain the service levels of the business, while the pilots at the request of the Union have caused slowdowns and excessive mechanicals. It is the Union’s position to maintain solidarity and punish the Owners and the company for your demands.

The Company would like all troops, front line, and support to make a good wage, one that keeps them competitive in the marketplace. But as the pilots have demonstrated that is not their goal. As has been stated on this board, NetJets may cancel future NJA aircraft orders and furlough pilots. Those remaining pilots can be paid more because each little piece of their pie will be a little larger. But employees do not want to see the company shrink, but we will. There will be no furloughs for NJS employees as we will still handle increased demand through other means than NJA pilots. So the only group you are hurting is yourself.

I am sure that Herb is shaking is head, wondering why the pilots are trying to ruin another company. As for market share, NetJets still has 70% market share and no one has taken a single point of share from NetJets.



Oh, by the way. We loved watching you walk in front of the headquarters. It was well done and well organized. And the press you got was fantastic. I think you should exercise more often. From the looks of those walking, it did not appear that anyone was starving and could use the exercise. Maybe a few less elk steaks could help that.

First off, $60K for a Citation X Captian is not a competitive wage. $32K for a F2000 or a G200 FO is not competitive. That is why many of your "highly trained and safe" pilots the owners appreciate so much are leaving. Why are NJI FOs making so much more than F2000 or G200 FOs when they frequently fly many of the same routes or substitute for each other?

Another question: why is it that pilots at NJE can fly anything from the Bravo to the GV and yet the same can't be said for NJA? Why should Europe be held to a different standard?

With regard to Herb Kelleher, he has approved numerous raises for his pilot group very recently - in fact, they are now the highest paid 737 pilots in the world. Herb understands that he needs to keep his pilots happy because their morale can directly impact service levels. And he also doesn't want his highly trained and "safe" pilots leaving for opportunitites at other carriers. Santulli obviously couldn't care less whether his Citation X pilots leave for Jet Blue or AirTran. There is a huge difference and the fact that there has been ZERO progress on the contract talks indicates that there is very little respect for the pilot group... When there is a contract dispute at SWA, they move quickly to resolve it so that they can continue business as normal and not adversely impact the passengers. That certainly ain't the case at NJA and the owners are now leaving in droves... Good job!

 

[flighter]

$61,000 for a 5th year CA. Pathethic! You can make more and some regionals and the type of flying you do is a helluva lot more challenging.
My heart goes out to you guys.

 

[TurboJetCpt]

You should really just let the CMHTroll continue to spew diahrea from his piehole. His ignorance is flowing by the gallon. Very amusing and definitely entertaining.

 

[G4dude]

So when is the Strike? What is the process from here?

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Why are NJI FOs making so much more than F2000 or G200 FOs when they frequently fly many of the same routes or substitute for each other?

2 can play this game:

Why are BBJ FO's making so much more than NJI FO's when they freguently fly many of the same routes or substitute for each other?




Answer: its called the food chain

 

[Heavy Set]

2 can play this game:

Why are BBJ FO's making so much more than NJI FO's when they freguently fly many of the same routes or substitute for each other?




Answer: its called the food chain

No need to get that defensive. Fine, then pay the BBJ FO the same as the GIV/GV FO. In the part 91 world, these positions are compensated much better. This is not a race here, we are talking about paying pilots their fair market value. Do you really think $60K per year for a 5th year Citation X Captain is fair? Does anyone think that is fair? Would you be upset if you were on that side of the fence and were paid that amount to fly a Citation X? If they are not paid what they are worth, then they will leave - and that is why NJA is experiencing such attrition. No big surprise.

Alright Wolfpack, tell me this - why should NJA pilots not be allowed to fly everything from the Ultra to the GV when their counterparts at NJE can fly everything from the Bravo to the GV? There is no logical rationale for that difference. What rationale can be used to keep the two divisions separate in your mind given the overlap in operations and the frequent substitution of aircraft from both fleets?

 

[GVFlyer]

Alright Wolfpack, tell me this - why should NJA pilots not be allowed to fly everything from the Ultra to the GV when their counterparts at NJE can fly everything from the Bravo to the GV? There is no logical rationale for that difference. What rationale can be used to keep the two divisions separate in your mind given the overlap in operations and the frequent substitution of aircraft from both fleets?

Easy answer. It's a thing called scope. When EJI/NJI was formed in 1995 the Teamsters agreed and wrote into the EJA/NJA contract that the Gulfstream operation would be an exception to scope. NJI is currently an autonomous company with their own president, dispatch and maintenance operations chartered in South Carolina, a Right to Work state (which means they cannot be forced into a union - they have to vote it on board). NJI has no greater relationship to NJA than do the vendors you sell trips off to or than NetJets Large Aircraft which is an independent operating company flying BBJ's with their own work rules and pay schedules chartered in Bradley, Connecticut.

GV

 

[loverobot]

Easy answer. It's a thing called scope. When EJI/NJI was formed in 1995 the Teamsters agreed and wrote into the EJA/NJA contract that the Gulfstream operation would be an exception to scope. NJI is currently an autonomous company with their own president, dispatch and maintenance operations chartered in South Carolina, a Right to Work state (which means they cannot be forced into a union - they have to vote it on board). NJI has no greater relationship to NJA than do the vendors you sell trips off to or than NetJets Large Aircraft which is an independent operating company flying BBJ's with their own work rules and pay schedules chartered in Bradley, Connecticut.

GV

Really? I had no idea they were so seperate. Was it the paint scheme, the QS tailnumbers, the employee ID's, the advertisements, the trading up and down of fleets, the Berkshire thing, the Santulli thing, the white plains and TEB thing. Somehow these companies are kept seperate when its convienent, and included together when its convienent. News Flash: you all work for the same company.

 

[HotelMonkey]

PARK THEM!

 

[linder]

Sounds like frustration is setting in since it was disclosed to the membership that NJA is refusing to even negotiate the Gulfstream subject.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Cost of Living Adjustments since the contract became amendable:

YEAR......COLA
2001......2.6%
2002......1.4%
2003......2.1%
2004......2.7%
Total......8.8%

Source: Social Security Administration
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/colaseries.html

Oh and your math is wrong above. The effect of COLAs is NOT additive.

BTW, better take a course in statistics or Math 101, before you make more of a fool of yourself adding inflation rates.

If you guys are so worried about the precise way cola compounds itself, then why didnt you correct the union people who did the simple addition in the first place, rather than fall all over yourselves to point this minor issue out when I correct their COLA figures?

And if you want the precise impact, based on compounding, then its 9.08% instead of 8.8%....

Looks like that company raise isnt as bad as you want to paint it....

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Anybody else see a comparison with NJ and New Orleans? I mean jesus just let them sit in their own pi$$ and $hit. The company is doing the same to us.

FacFriend wants to show us how strong they are and drive the pilots out of the buisness. Sorry it's netjets aviation. Without the pilots it's just poor customer service and crappy scheduling.

Yeah it's elitist but so what. Negotiations have stalled because the company won't even provide a decent livable wage. Spin it any way you want but it's just sad. Just shows how much they respect the pilots. Let it burn like New Orleans.

Gooose pull the handle!

Diesel, first, let me start by saying that i've enjoyed all of your previous post.

I think you might consider a retraction on this one. Comparing the raise you are looking for or the relative conditions that you endure flying a private jet, to the plight and death of the people in Louisiana is insane and insensitive. I have never seen such a distasteful and insensitive post.

Ace

 

[BE200Driver]

I am an outsider to all the NJ arguments but have a couple questions.

1. Does NJ disclose what the payscales are before employment?

2. Does the value of a NJ pilot increase over time?

3. Does NJ keep anyone from making their own decisions regarding their career path?

4. If I told you that my boss hasen't given me a raise in the last two years, wouldn't the majority of NJ guys here tell me to stop crying and get another job if I didn't like it?

No flame please (lol, I can't wait to see it). But who is holding a gun to anyone's head at NJ? Just curious.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

No need to get that defensive.

Alright Wolfpack, tell me this - why should NJA pilots not be allowed to fly everything from the Ultra to the GV when their counterparts at NJE can fly everything from the Bravo to the GV? There is no logical rationale for that difference. What rationale can be used to keep the two divisions separate in your mind given the overlap in operations and the frequent substitution of aircraft from both fleets?

Heavy,

No defense at all, I’m only pointing out what I see is the obvious. I'm personally happy to see the BBJ scale where they are. I think those wages are well deserved by the pilots.

To answer your question. Setting aside the fact NJE was created as a single company to operate all NJE aircraft, there is a pecking order over there. New hires don’t waltz right into the G planes, just as NJA new hires don’t get 737 types.

The rationale to have created NJI has been expounded on threads for years. My only thought on why it remains separate is economics. NJI is a viable resource to NetJets if and when they wanted to raise cash through a sell off . Because we operate 1 aircraft type, (and will only) have our own infrastructure, etc. we are a pre-packaged deal if and when that time ever came. Of course this is my own opinion, which doesn’t mean much.

Once NJA receives a pay raise, combined with larger aircraft (BBJ, Falcon’s, I see them both all over Europe) you guys will slowly but surely forget about 42 Gulfstreams operated by a bunch of (what you call) “Old Farts”. And this unnecessary bitter and useless argument will finally be put to bed.

Fly Safe Heavy,



Wolfpack

(vs. Virginia tonight at 7:45pm)