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Net Jets Offers

abenaki

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Enough
While I am loathe to participate on this board and involve myself in the bickering and nastiness that is so prevalent here, it seems important to clarify where one or two issues are in negotiations so that perhaps some light can be shed on what's going on.


PAY: As of the latest briefing, the company's proposal on pay amounts to $62,500 for a 5th-year captain. This is LESS than what was offered in the failed TA one year ago of $69,000.

The current pay for a 5-year captain is about $61,000 and that was negotiated in 1998.

Factoring in a modest 3% inflation factor for the years '99-'05 totaling 21% as a LOW end, that $61,000 should now be $73,810. Add another 4 years to the "contract" ('06-'09) at the same 3% per year, and that $61,000 should be $81,130.00

Not only has the comany REGRESSED in it's salary offer of a year ago, it has failed to even offer a salary that keeps pace with inflation ALL THE WHILE RAISING THE OWNER MANAGEMENT FEES AT A RATE OF 3.75% A YEAR TO "COVER THE PILOTS' SALARY INCREASES".

It has also failed to offer and increase that places NJA pilots at anywhere's NEAR industry standard for the equipment flown. Their current offer is at the 10th percentile of NBAA compensation.

They are asking the pilots to accept what amounts to a salary DECREASE from the '98 contract.

Now, I know that many of you are company supporters and blame us evil and greedy pilots for all the problems at this place right now, but please, how can you honestly say to us that this type of offer is fair and reflects bargaining in good faith?

Would YOU be happy working for 1998 wages with NO adjustments for inflation let alone the necessary bumps to close the gap between the low wage scale and industry standards?
 

El Chupacabra

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You forgot to add NO INSURANCE.

So its less than what we have now. Why would I vote myself a paycut? Rather see this place go out of business.
 

FAcFriend

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El Chupacabra said:
You forgot to add NO INSURANCE.

So its less than what we have now. Why would I vote myself a paycut? Rather see this place go out of business.

El you are so right. Just drive it out of business because you dont get what you want- what you deserve...

You pilots that are so unhappy need to just get out of this place. .
Oh wait- you dont want to quit, you want everyone else to change.

Ok, well how about lets all band together and drive this place into the ground...ok..

CMH- employees lets put these pilots out of work-lets help them get unemployed..
 

CapnVegetto

The Prince of all Saiyans
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Hey, here's a better idea, why doesn't management actually make a FAIR F-ING OFFER????
 

El Chupacabra

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I am just about at the point where I will be just as happy... one way or another.

The NMB screwed everybody by not giving a release. Slow painful death or quick humane death...
 

FAcFriend

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CapnVegetto said:
Hey, here's a better idea, why doesn't management actually make a FAIR F-ING OFFER????

Everyone has their own version of fair offer. So I say lets go ahead and shut the place down...out of work pilots. Doesn't matter to you guys right?

Ok, lets join you guys and do it quick.

you want unemployment,,, the CMh employees can help you real quick..

lets all join the unemployment line together...

You would make more flipping hamburgers....lets all go flip hamburgers together...

The pilots win...yahoo....
 

FamilyGuy

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abenaki said:
Factoring in a modest 3% inflation factor for the years '99-'05 totaling 21% as a LOW end, that $61,000 should now be $73,810. Add another 4 years to the "contract" ('06-'09) at the same 3% per year, and that $61,000 should be $81,130.00

Hang on a second....

Why are you including inflation for the period covered by the last contract (99-01) and then including inflation for the 4 years for the new contract?

Wasnt COLA figured into the previous contract for the time period covered under the contract - 98-01?

And as I posted in another thread, COLA for the 4 years from 01-04 totaled only 8.8%.
FamilyGuy said:
Cost of Living Adjustments since the contract became amendable:

YEAR......COLA
2001......2.6%
2002......1.4%
2003......2.1%
2004......2.7%
Total......8.8%

Source: Social Security Administration
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/colaseries.html
 

El Chupacabra

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I won't be unemployed or flipping hamburgers.

Oh and your math is wrong above. The effect of COLAs is NOT additive.
 

FAcFriend

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245
COLA??

Forget cola...
COLA=cost of living increase...
plus the year of service increase.

plus the "raise" these guys deserve because they are good guys and have families and mortgage payments...

I say, Let the pilots win- unemployment.
 

El Chupacabra

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FAcFriend said:
COLA??

Forget cola...
COLA=cost of living increase...
plus the year of service increase.

plus the "raise" these guys deserve because they are good guys and have families and mortgage payments...

I say, Let the pilots win- unemployment.

ME TOO ... lets go....
 

FAcFriend

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El Chupacabra said:
ME TOO ... lets go....

El, you have already started...

as far the cash goes and you can replace this income tomorrow.
I already have.

You pilots are just too slow to go-
 

Heavy Set

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FAcFriend said:
El, you have already started...

as far the cash goes and you can replace this income tomorrow.
I already have.

You pilots are just too slow to go-

FAcEnemy,

You sound like a real d***head. NJA's problems are primarily related to poor management (extreme cost mismanagement and waste, abysmal employee relations, etc.) - not pilot issues as management would have others believe. The pilots have been waiting for fair contract since 1998 - that's quite a long time ago... Who's bargaining in good faith? Obviously not management.

How would Herb Kelleher appraise the relations between NJA management and labor? Pretty low. See, you and the rest of the management stooges seem to forget that this is a service business, and keeping your front line troops (the people who actually interface with the customer) happy is critical in any service business - that is a FACT. Is that too complex for you to understand? Morale is critical to service delivery.

But hey, if NJA's management is happy to see more owners defect to Citationshares, Flexjet and even Avantair, then they have more to look forward to. I'm sure Herb is shaking his head right about now. Santulli should be proud...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Diesel

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Anybody else see a comparison with NJ and New Orleans? I mean jesus just let them sit in their own pi$$ and $hit. The company is doing the same to us.

FacFriend wants to show us how strong they are and drive the pilots out of the buisness. Sorry it's netjets aviation. Without the pilots it's just poor customer service and crappy scheduling.

Yeah it's elitist but so what. Negotiations have stalled because the company won't even provide a decent livable wage. Spin it any way you want but it's just sad. Just shows how much they respect the pilots. Let it burn like New Orleans.

Gooose pull the handle!
 

FamilyGuy

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Heavy Set said:
FAcEnemy,

You sound like a real d!ckhead. NJA's problems are primarily related to poor management (extreme cost mismanagement and waste, abysmal employee relations, etc.) - not pilot issues as management would have others believe. The pilots have been waiting for fair contract since 1998 - that's quite a long time ago... Who's bargaining in good faith? Obviously not management.

Waiting since 1998 for a fair contract?

Then why did you approve the contract in 1998?
 

FamilyGuy

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Diesel said:
Anybody else see a comparison with NJ and New Orleans? I mean jesus just let them sit in their own pi$$ and $hit.

Yes, I am seeing some parallels to New Orleans....many of the people in N.O. are compounding their problems by shooting at rescue helicopters, Hospitals, etc...

(sound familiar to the attacks on 135 companies and the other company employees?)

I wont even touch the vermin attacking their own in the superdome....
 

CMHTroll

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May 11, 2005
Posts
78
NJA’s employee relations situation is the creation of your MEC. Management has put an offer on that table last year and it was sabotaged by Strong Union who became your MEC. Every organization has waste and everyone works on keeping waste under control. That includes giving pilots good crew food but denying elk steaks with béarnaise sauce and caviar. Yes, ordered as crew food.

As for Herb Keller, I am sure that his opinion would be; “ Do not to let a group of people inside or outside try and hold the company hostage. Not bankers not employees, no one.” Management has always bargained in good faith, and worked hard to maintain the service levels of the business, while the pilots at the request of the Union have caused slowdowns and excessive mechanicals. It is the Union’s position to maintain solidarity and punish the Owners and the company for your demands.

The Company would like all troops, front line, and support to make a good wage, one that keeps them competitive in the marketplace. But as the pilots have demonstrated that is not their goal. As has been stated on this board, NetJets may cancel future NJA aircraft orders and furlough pilots. Those remaining pilots can be paid more because each little piece of their pie will be a little larger. But employees do not want to see the company shrink, but we will. There will be no furloughs for NJS employees as we will still handle increased demand through other means than NJA pilots. So the only group you are hurting is yourself.

I am sure that Herb is shaking is head, wondering why the pilots are trying to ruin another company. As for market share, NetJets still has 70% market share and no one has taken a single point of share from NetJets.



Oh, by the way. We loved watching you walk in front of the headquarters. It was well done and well organized. And the press you got was fantastic. I think you should exercise more often. From the looks of those walking, it did not appear that anyone was starving and could use the exercise. Maybe a few less elk steaks could help that.
 
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