abenaki said:
FAMILY GUY
1) I didn't ask about what I thought I deserved.....You are all thinking we are asking for the moon here and thus that is the reason for the state of things, I was asking what YOU think "I" deserve.
What's the point? Cant you find enough stuff on this board to argue about already?
But I'll play your game....
To properly answer your question, you need to understand my thinking on jobs and pay.
First of all, IMHO, people should pursue a job they enjoy and are passionate about. Making lots of money is not an admirable end goal....it's nice if it happens, especially if you get it doing something you love, but its just crazy to perform a job you hate simply to make more money....life's too short.
Second, again IMHO, the job should be close to your family, if possible. That should be self-explanatory.
Third, the company culture and atmosphere should be of a nature that you agree with and can fit in with. Again, life's too short. The job itself can be enjoyable but if the company culture is counter to your own it will just cause a lot of strife and headaches for you. There are lots of companies out there in every line of work. If one doesnt have a culture that fits you, move on and find another. (Its a lot like marriage in this regard...choose your partners wisely, or you'll have a lot of frustration in your life and you'll be poorer in the end)
Fourth, the pay and benefits should meet your needs. I'm not on this planet to work. Work is a means to an end for me. It pays my bills, supports my family, and allows me to pursue activities that I truly enjoy. So long as I find a situation where the first three points are covered, all I'm really worried about is being able to pay my bills.
As for me, I love my job, Columbus is home for me (big bonus in being able to go see the buckeyes), this is the best company I've found so far in terms of taking care employees (I've worked for a lot of companies and seen truly antagonistic attitudes towards employees), and the wages allows me to pay my bills each month, with some due diligence on my part when it comes to budgeting. The benefits are great too - generous 401k, vision, dental, medical, etc....
So, now that you have a better appreciation for my line of thinking on jobs and pay, I can answer your question on what I think you should earn...
Its been stated on this board earlier that most people are flying because its a passion for them. They'd rather do that than sit behind some desk pushing paper. SO the first criteria appears to be met.
The company allows people to choose a gateway to base from, so I think most of our pilots are able to be close to their families, which fulfills the second criteria.
The third criteria is a personal fit, so you will need to answer that question. Again, I dont know how many companies you've worked at, but NetJets has been the best I've found to date for taking care of their people.
Fourth criteria - pay and benefits. The union stated that our pilots are making between $50,000 and $72,000. Seeing as how inflation has increased 9.08% over the last four years, it would be reasonable to expect a raise that exceeds that. Most people want to continue to gain ground, so I would say at least double the inflation rate, so the raise should start around 18% in real terms, everything else being equal.
Of course, we both know that the pilots pay would continue to advance at a rate that is more than double the rate of inflation, since you also get annual raises for years of service, in addition to the opportunity to reset the scale every time the contract is renegotiated.
abenaki said:
FAMILY GUY
2) You said, "Currently there is a surplus of pilots in the marketplace."
But, according to BB, few of them are coming to NJA because of the current deplorable conditions (of course, the fact that pilots aren't applying here is our fault, too.....I know, I know)......So, to continue his logic, because he can't get enough pilots, he's going to furlough......Sorry, how does that logically follow?
So, there really ISN'T a surplus of pilots for NJA, is there? So, he may actually have to change things to attract the pilots he says he needs to fill the seats on all the pending aircraft orders. Yes? The logic dictates that, does it not?
That's some twisted logic....
Simple facts - there are thousands of pilots laid off from the legacy carriers. Wages industry wide are decreasing, and decreasing rapidly. The only reason NJA is not meeting its goals is because the pilots are actively waging a "do not come here" campaign, as evidenced in numerous threads on this board. Does this campaign change the facts that there is a surplus of pilots in the industry? NO.
abenaki said:
FAMILY GUY
The only way we can convince companies to pay more is to vote with our feet?
Sorry, I don't get that one. There are many other ways to convince a company to pay more.
Yeah...they are called extortion, blackmail, arm-twisting, etc....
How else would you characterize people that deliberately under-perform, sabotage, and undermine the company's performance and publicly state that things will return to normal when our demands are met?
abenaki said:
Personally, I do not condone some of the petty behaviors that you refer to. That is not how I operate nor is it how a majority of the pilots are operating. However, while you condem those for doing those things, how about looking at the company's behavior regarding the contract? It would seem that with over $12 million in contract violations paid thus far (with a LOT more coming), the company cannot call itself lilly white while condeming the behavior of a few. This company does willfully ignore the provisions of the contract and LOA's that they agreed to.
Since I dont work in the pilot ops side, its hard for me to comment on contract violations when I dont have the details. Can you share them? What were the violations and what were the awards?
Absent the details, it sounds like the process is working and people are being held accountable if a contract provision is violated.
Now, are you going to support the company firing people that sabotage the operation or are you going to support using your dues to defend them and their behavior?