Net Jets Offers

[Sarka]

Say whatever you want if it makes you feel better. I sat there and watched it happen. I watched him access the daily schedules of all coast-to-coast aircraft in our fleet and NJI's. He assigned the trip to an NJI G without consulting anyone.

Sorry, Gump. I have to disagree with you on this one. If we want to use a NJI aircraft for a trip we have to call the NJI schedulers for approval. It's their fleet. Sometimes they say yes and sometimes they can't help us. It's their call, not ours.

Sure we can see their (NJI) entire fleet. We can also see all of EJM, NJE, NJME and our vendors if we select the correct view in IJet. NJI, EJM, NJE and NJME can also see NJA's fleet and request to use our aircraft for flights. But, each division has it's own schedulers that make the final call.

 

[Diesel]

Sarka-

Lets take it one step further. Say you're scheduling ultras. You don't have any control over who is doing the X's. Sure you can see the planes but you still have to ask the day of scheduler in X's to use one of their planes.

Same principle.

 

[BE200Driver]

WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME THEY KISSED THEIR WIFE GOODBYE AND WALKED OUT THE DOOR FOR 7 DAYS.

AAAAwwwwwww! Your choice.

 

[Sarka]

Sarka-

Lets take it one step further. Say you're scheduling ultras. You don't have any control over who is doing the X's. Sure you can see the planes but you still have to ask the day of scheduler in X's to use one of their planes.

Same principle.

Similar, yes, but not exactly Diesel. Schedule Planning (24-48 hr out) has schedulers by fleet (control of indivdual fleets). Day of (SOC) scheduler (and Air Boss) has control over all fleets.

You are right about the Ultra planner needing to ask the X scheduler to some degree, but there is a Schedule Planning supervisor that can overide and make the final decision on any fleet.

We all cooperate with each other as much as possible and try to help each other out, but it still is the responsibility of each individual scheduling group for NJA, NJI, EJM, NJE, NJME and Vendor Ops to control which flights they cover or not.

I'm not trying to take any sides here Diesel, just telling you like it is to clearify any misunderstandings or mis-information.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Sarka....you said that if WE want to use NJI a/c for a trip WE have to call the NJI schedulers and get permission.....just out of curiosity, can we do the same with CS a/c or FLOP's a/c or Flex a/c? Are they on your speed dial?

Yet another point to prove the single carrier relationship between NJA and NJI.

I do appreciate the explanation of how the scheduling process works though....I think we need more of these explanations so everyone, in all departments, realize how the other side of the house works.....

 

[FLYLOW22]

FLYLOW22....I'm sorry, but I don't think I heard you.





Did you say?





STMFD!

Ummmm..... yes!

 

[FLYLOW22]

AAAAwwwwwww! Your choice.

It IS all about choice. At my second job rehabbing houses this weekend I talked to a guy that is pitching in as a favor (doesn't need the scratch). He drives a truck during the week and has one week on and one week off.

He is away from his family as much as I am.

He makes $2000 a week. I make $2000 a month.

Hmmmmm.

STMFD!!!!

 

[dsptchrnja]

....you said that if WE want to use NJI a/c for a trip WE have to call the NJI schedulers and get permission.....just out of curiosity, can we do the same with CS a/c or FLOP's a/c or Flex a/c? Are they on your speed dial?.....

We have similiar working relationships with NJI that we have with vendors. The biggest difference is NJI is our sister company. Pretty basic stuff. It doesn't make us single carrier. If the boss doesn't want a single carrier for his company's who has the right to tell him otherwise?

 

[Webslinger]

2 can play this game:

Why are BBJ FO's making so much more than NJI FO's when they freguently fly many of the same routes or substitute for each other?




Answer: its called the food chain

Cant we all just get along?

 

[dsptchrnja]

Really??? Gee, that's not what was told to me by the several pilots from EJM who were FURLOUGHED.

To bad they didn't work for the unionized majors, they never have that problem there.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Sorry, Gump. I have to disagree with you on this one. If we want to use a NJI aircraft for a trip we have to call the NJI schedulers for approval. It's their fleet. Sometimes they say yes and sometimes they can't help us. It's their call, not ours.

Sure we can see their (NJI) entire fleet. We can also see all of EJM, NJE, NJME and our vendors if we select the correct view in IJet. NJI, EJM, NJE and NJME can also see NJA's fleet and request to use our aircraft for flights. But, each division has it's own schedulers that make the final call.

Again, I'm telling you what I saw. He pulled up the line for an NJI G, saw it would fit with this owner's needs, put the trip on it, called the owner's assistant to confirm that he was good to go, and never once called an NJI scheduler.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Dspcther......I have been through a sinbgle carrier suit before and the Union side won. The evididence here is even greater. For you make make the comment you did about the Boss not wanting a single carrier for his company tells me you have no real knowledge of what is involved......Of course he doesn't, that's how you play one side against the other.

Either way, the FM's, Dispatchers, NJI and the rest of the employees in CMH really have no say in the matter.......Management and the Union will work it out...if not, the courts will.

 

[abenaki]

Family Guy--

Thank you for your reply...due to the fact that I can't seem to figure out how to view your response and type mine at the same time, this will probably be a mulit-part response....

First.....Your criteria for "job satisfaction" are good.....No arguments from me on that one. In regards to "company fit", I will say that I think an overhwelming number of us felt similar to how I first did when I got here.....When I first walked into the hangar at Bridgeway and saw the polished floors and the guy taking the "waterspots off the wings 'cause the owners don't like to see waterspots", I thought I'd found my "professional home".....and I did.....That was reinforced by the fact that customer service was a short distance behind safety. We had, what was it?, a full day on customer service during training and more customer service training during recurrent?

My point is this. The focus of NJA has changed and changed dramatically. No longer is "customer service" given as a class any more. No longer is it even mentioned in recurrent anymore since what's-his-name left a couple of years ago. The airplanes certainly do not look as good as they did a couple of years ago though I admit there has been some addressing of that issue.

When on tour up to a couple of years ago there was time to maybe sit down and have a hot meal somewhere or get a work out in a couple of times a tour which made the crews fresher and more able to take some of the longer days AND provide better customer service. Now it's 12+/- hours every day not so much to add to productivity it seems as it is to show some "crew utilization" statistics.

I could go on and on with what I perceive as negative changes here and changes that affect the "fit" from what was here before. There's even a joke out on the line that was NOT applicable a couple of years ago about "safety being #1 at Net Jets unless it intereferes with scheduling".......I could relate pages of examples of this but my point is that the culture has has changed, and not for the better for the employees nor for the owners satisfaction.

BB's philosophy of "doing more with less" is a good sound bite, but doesn't always translate well into a "frontline service" business.....and make no mistake about it, NJA doesn't sell airplanes or "fractional ownership" or anything else BUT SERVICE. That point was highly emphasized by the "service excellence" guy whom I mentioned......I have often wondered why his position was replaced and why service is no longer mentioned to the front line providers of that service.

 

[abenaki]

Family Guy--

In regards to wages.....

OK...#1...why are you applying the inflation rate for only the last 4 years? The wages of the current contract were agreed to in 1998? So why isn't the inflation applied to 1998 to the present and beyond instead of just the last four years?

To apply the inlfation rate of just the last four years ignores the devaluation of the wage dollar during the life of the 1998 contract. So, to add your figure of 9% to adjust for the inflation of 2001-2005, you've done nothing to address that devaluation of 1998-2001.

As in my original post, a COLA application has to be applied to the life of the contract, too, or else the actual buying power of those dollars decreases over the life of the contract.

In essense, NJA has been paying 1998 wages through 2005.....That's a pretty good deal that any company would LOVE and has been the incentive to drag these negotiations out this long. Management even admitted that it dragged out the negotiations.....that's no news flash. They've saved bazillions over the last fours years by paying 1998 wages.....

So, in rough numbers to SIMPLY ADJUST FOR INLFATION WITHOUT TAKING INTO ACCOUNT NJA'S ALREADY LOW BALL PAY, you have to go back to my original post that puts the current $61,000 a year at about $77,000 a year using a modest 3% rate over 8 years......(NJA uses 3.75% for owner increases in management fees) .....now add a COLA adjustment of 3% a year for 4 years of a contract and we're well over $80K just for inflation!

If we use NJA'S 3.75%, those numbers go even higher.....and wasn't that 3.75% touted as necessary to "pay for the pilot's raises"? No doubt that it was.

 

[abenaki]

Pilot surpluses....

Agreed.....there is a surplus in the industry "out there".......Few of them are coming "here" so there IS a shortage as far as NJA is concerned if NJA cannot induce them to wlk through the door.......A resource is only "surplus" if more than enough of it is available to the party in need.

Are NJA pilots telling others not to come here? Yes! Are the pilots who are asking about NJA robots who can't make their own decisions once they see the pay scales, the possible upgrade times off of FO pay, the working conditions, the state of labor relations, etc? NO. These are professional pilots who KNOW the industry and what they want and do not want in an employment situation. These aren't kids all wild-eyed about flying jets.....These are EDUCATED AND INFORMED PROFESSIONALS FULLY CAPABLE OF MAKING THEIR OWN DECISIONS. Once they see the state of things here through their own investigations

Please, Family Guy, give them at least a LITTLE credit for being adult enough to make their own decisions. Some retired or furloughed DAL pilot is pretty sharp and certainly sharp enough to make his/her own decision. hey can do reserach on their own and talk with the recruiters here......

I have personally written two letters of recommendation for pilots wanting to apply here in the last 6 months.....The first one was accepted and later declined the class after making his OWN decision......Hey, I even HELPED him with getting in and he STILL turned it down. #2 is pending upon completion of another employment obligation.