Negotiations & The Cost of "Heck No!"

[Treme]

Perhaps this is why Duane Woerth is coming to explain to the Comair pilots why taking a cut is good for them. In advance of his arrival ALPA has asked the Company to stop the RJDC from informing pilots on this issue.????

What exactly IS Woerth-less coming to a run-of-the-mill union meeting at Comair for???

During the most dire of times at my previous employer he never "graced" us with his presence.

Something's fishy.

 

[George Jetson]

What exactly IS Woerth-less coming to a run-of-the-mill union meeting at Comair for???

During the most dire of times at my previous employer he

Duane Woerth will be at our Continental/Continental Express Contract '02 Amendable Date Rally on Wednesday in Houston. This is the second time that I have seen him at one of our functions in the past 2 years.

GJ

 

[scopeCMRandASA]

As a "concerned regional pilot", why don't you tell us what YOU think the Comair pilots should do?

You seem to think and have stated that "we are the problem". What would YOU have "us" (CMR or ASA or CMR/ASA) do to solve the problem(s)?

As usual, you distort the truth. "We" are not the problem. You are the problem. Our senior pilots are the problem, at least most of them. While tripping over yourselves to prove how big their johnson is, the senior pilots at Comair and ASA have alienated the Delta pilots. It is they who steer this ship. With a little cooperation, instead of antagonism, we might have found some common ground in our negotiations. This is exactly what I think the Comair and ASA pilots should collectively do. Go back and talk to the Delta MEC about the common issues between our groups. I think both should publicly denounce the RJDC AND its supporters. Neither will happen. We both know why.

Do not forget, it was the Delta pilots who were willing to bargain in their negotiations, using their bargaining power, to help out our cause. Until "we" got greedy. That's when they said go take a hike. My suggestion is that the powers that be drop their attitude and ask the Delta MEC if there is opportunity there or not.


--a concerned regional pilot

 

[surplus1]

As usual, you distort the truth. "We" are not the problem. You are the problem. Our senior pilots are the problem, at least most of them. While tripping over yourselves to prove how big their johnson is, the senior pilots at Comair and ASA have alienated the Delta pilots. It is they who steer this ship. With a little cooperation, instead of antagonism, we might have found some common ground in our negotiations. This is exactly what I think the Comair and ASA pilots should collectively do. Go back and talk to the Delta MEC about the common issues between our groups. I think both should publicly denounce the RJDC AND its supporters. Neither will happen. We both know why.

Congratulations on having excluded yourself from the "we" in the group to which you allegedly belong. Based on your commentary, your recommendation brings three things to mind: 1) Your knowledge of the history of events at Comair (if that is where you work) is extremely limited, 2) If you are who you claim to be (a concerned regional pilot) you might also be a distant relative of Benedict Arnold, 3) Your "handle" would be more fitting were it Lord Chamberlain in lieu of the one you have chosen.

Finally, I got pretty much what I expected, not much. "Out of the mouths of babes ..."

For the record we of Comair have always welcomed and solicited dialogue with the DMEC. There is however substantial difference between dialogue and repetitive listening to sermons from the Mount. When they would like to talk with us and not to us, the door will always be open.

Do not forget, it was the Delta pilots who were willing to bargain in their negotiations, using their bargaining power, to help out our cause. Until "we" got greedy. That's when they said go take a hike. My suggestion is that the powers that be drop their attitude and ask the Delta MEC if there is opportunity there or not.

To forget something presumes that you once new it. Speaking of distortions of the truth, you win the blue ribbon with the above. There is nothing in the first three sentences of the above paragraph that even remotely resembles historical reality and therefore, nothing for me to remember. I don't know where you get your "information" but I recommend a more credible source. You seem to know a great deal about the DMEC and its propaganda, but very little of actual events. If you are indeed a "concerned regional pilot" you might devote some time to learning more about the airline you imply you work for and the record of our relationship with the leaders of the Delta group. When did you join "the regional ranks", yesterday?

I'm sorry you despise the senior pilots as much as you say you do. Perhaps if you held less rancor for us we could learn more from your pearls of wisdom and benefit from your experience. If you do not already work for Delta, when you get there I hope you will not hold their senior pilots with the same lack of regard. If you do, they are likely to think of you in the same way that I do.

I agree that there is need for an attitude adjustment, yours. Thinking back to when I was a youngster in my early 20's I recall that my father was a total idiot who knew little of anything. By the time I was 30 he had become the smartest man I'd ever met. It was absolutely amazing how much he had learned in so short a time.

I wish you good luck for the Lord knows you're going to need it.

 

[scopeCMRandASA]

He gets a little testy when someone calls him on his BS doesn't he? It would be funny if it weren't so pathetic. More evidence to support my claim. Thanks Surplus. Is it any wonder that the Delta pilots want nothing to do with us? We have made our own bed by letting these jackals run amok.

--a concerned regional pilot

 

[jarhead]

ScopeCMRand ASA

Sorry Scope, it is you who are the pathectic one. Surplus is right on the mark with you. Benedict Arnold was the name I also thought of after reading your posts. I suspect you are VERY young, but you hide behind non descript "xxx" answers in your 'profile'. Are you afraid that people will see just how wet behind the ears you really are?

 

[scopeCMRandASA]

Re: ScopeCMRand ASA

Sorry Scope, it is you who are the pathectic one. Surplus is right on the mark with you. Benedict Arnold was the name I also thought of after reading your posts. I suspect you are VERY young, but you hide behind non descript "xxx" answers in your 'profile'. Are you afraid that people will see just how wet behind the ears you really are?

A fair question. You are calling me Benedict Arnold for wanting to work with the Delta pilots rather than against them? If this what you are saying, then I guess you are right. I will go one step further in saying that those who consider me a B.A. really want no harmony with the Delta pilots, but prefer to dictate instead their idea of a "cohesive" group on their terms. AKA the RJDC. Like it or not, ALPA cannot/will not be controlled by our small group of pilots. Those who so candidly state that I am kissing Delta ass, admittedly I have many Delta pilot friends, are the ones who really have no desire to see such harmony within the ranks, but only desire to see their agenda furthered.

You and your buddy Surplus can throw your names around and your "experience". You can profess to know it all. I find it funny, however, that the senior pilots which Surplus so despises for protecting their cushy pensions and high paying 777s over at Delta represent the exact same mindset over here at Comair with his mindset. They are both more alike than Surplus wants to admit. The difference? They will retire with 300K a year, 180K annual retirement pay, full medical, flying to exotic destinations 10-12 days a month, 6 weeks of vacation, etc, etc, etc. I am a B.A. for wanting that?!? Are you out of your mind? That would make about 90% of the Comair pilots B.A.s.

LMAOAYAS

--a concerned regional pilot

BTW, I forgot to answer your other question. I don't have a "profile" listed because I don't have to. In all fairness, yours isn't all that impressive to me. My signoff is all you need to know. Perhaps now, we can debate something relevant?

 

[N2264J]

Ingrate

As usual, you distort the truth. "We" are not the problem. You are the problem...Go back and talk to the Delta MEC about the common issues between our groups. I think both should publicly denounce the RJDC AND its supporters.

--a concerned regional pilot

ASA and Comair pilots didn't pick this fight.

As a matter of fact, I would go so far as to say that all pilots hired at ASA and Comair in the last two years have a job there because the RJDC filed a lawsuit that has, thus far, prevented the DMEC from claiming eminent domain on those cockpit seats.

 

[jarhead]

ScopeCMRandASA

Yes, I would agree with you that my profile is not all that "impressive". I will state at the onset though, that I was, and am not trying to impress anyone with my meager flying credentials. The very few hours I have are purely recreational VFR stuff, and I do not have a commercial license, nor have I ever aspired to get one. That said, I will add to my meager profile, an item that is not shown, as it was inadvertently left off. My date of birth. I am 63 years old, and will not try to "hide" who I am.

With that disclosure behind me, I will again state, that even though no one should be "impressed" with my profile, I do not try to hide who I am with "XXX" in every field. You flippantly say it's because you "don't have too" That, to me, is a cop out, and just confirms to me that you really have no legitimate standing for the positions you take, and are afraid to show your colors. Of course you could "lie" and make stuff up and I would have no way of disputing your profile, other than perhaps a faux paux in some future or past posting that might belie what you state.

I will tell you, that I am far closer to what is going on with the CMR pilot group, the RJDC. and the non ending dog fight amongst mainline and regional groups than you could possibly imagine. I see your B.S. for exactly what it is, and I will not "debate" you, as either you do not have a full grasp of the issues, or you chose to ignore the true issues of "concerned regional pilot" you claim to be.

I can think of nothing more adolescent than your infantile comments about the "size of someone's johnson" I left that type of debate in the high school locker room. Grow up, for cryin' out loud.

 

[scopeCMRandASA]

ScopeCMRandASA

Yes, I would agree with you that my profile is not all that "impressive". I will state at the onset though, that I was, and am not trying to impress anyone with my meager flying credentials. The very few hours I have are purely recreational VFR stuff, and I do not have a commercial license, nor have I ever aspired to get one. That said, I will add to my meager profile, an item that is not shown, as it was inadvertently left off. My date of birth. I am 63 years old, and will not try to "hide" who I am.

With that disclosure behind me, I will again state, that even though no one should be "impressed" with my profile, I do not try to hide who I am with "XXX" in every field. You flippantly say it's because you "don't have too" That, to me, is a cop out, and just confirms to me that you really have no legitimate standing for the positions you take, and are afraid to show your colors. Of course you could "lie" and make stuff up and I would have no way of disputing your profile, other than perhaps a faux paux in some future or past posting that might belie what you state.

I will tell you, that I am far closer to what is going on with the CMR pilot group, the RJDC. and the non ending dog fight amongst mainline and regional groups than you could possibly imagine. I see your B.S. for exactly what it is, and I will not "debate" you, as either you do not have a full grasp of the issues, or you chose to ignore the true issues of "concerned regional pilot" you claim to be.

I can think of nothing more adolescent than your infantile comments about the "size of someone's johnson" I left that type of debate in the high school locker room. Grow up, for cryin' out loud.

Is this a joke? You, sir, provide concrete proof of the reason for the age 60 rule. If you would care to actually debate the topics at hand, I would be glad to. You do not have to be 63 to "grasp the issues", or not "be wet behind the ears", or any other catch phrase you and Surplus come up with in order to divert the attention away from the fact that you have no argument. Perhaps you can enlighten me on just what my lack of grasping the issues is. Are you referring to the RJDCs claim about the lack of representation? I have read it all, I have heard it all from the hroses' mouths, or I should say the horses'asses mouths.

My profile, you are correct, I could lie and type anything in there, as you did. Although I assure you that I am certainly not a wet behind the ears kid, it really doesn't matter who I am, it is what I am saying. I am quite well informed of the issues, I do not agree with the stance, and I have every right to voice it. It's funny how you senior types stick together. You complain about not having a voice, and then try to do the same to others. You say the Comair pilot has no say, and then stomp on the opposing point of view. What you really enjoy is somebody stroking your fragile egos. Well, in the words of Surplus, I will bend over for no one. I will stand tall and proud as a Comair pilot. I will be treated as an equal or I will not play the game at all. I'll show you. Zip.......

I noticed that you failed to mention your name, address, and phone number in your post. You ARE hiding if you don't. Chicken.

Can we get back to the debate now? Or do you want to throw some more all knowing, all encompassing, all offensive, senior BS out here and embarass yourself some more.

From 2264J:

ASA and Comair didn't pick this fight.

I beg to differ. It was them who threw the PID without any notification to Delta. Not required of course, but against better judgement.

As a matter of fact, I would go so far as to say that all pilots hired at ASA and Comair in the last two years have a job there because the RJDC filed a lawsuit that has, thus far, prevented the DMEC from claiming eminent domain on those cockpit seats.

What makes you think that? You think the Delta pilots were going to go after the RJs? Why would they do that? How many of their furloughees have gone to ASA? 10 maybe?

Or maybe they were going to go after the 70 seaters. Remote possibility at best, IMO. IMO again that was just a urban myth perpetuated by the Comair and ASA MECs. Hmm, that sounded like Surplus talking there for a second. The fact is that Delta is not an entry level job. Comair and ASA are. Look at the pay scales. Look at what we fly for, yes that includes me, and we expect to get respect? A laughable statement at best. Let's just say that they had gotten the 70 seaters, which of course they would not becuase Delta had much cheaper pilots to fly them for them legally. Would our pilots have been furloughed? No is the answer. 50 seaters are still coming and will come. Our growth would have slowed ever so slightly, but nonetheless would have been there.

Let me ask you, what claim have we laid to any flying ourselves? Let me guess, we can't because we don't bargain with our "true" employer. Wrong. What fragmentation protection did we have when we were purchased requiring us to be merged with Delta? answer:NONE. Do we have any flying in our contract now which could be "farmed" out in any way, shape, or form? Answer: YES. Truth, we do not have the answers. We are no smarter than the Delta MEC, and it boils down to who has the much, much, much, much, much better contract. All I'm saying is that we lose this RJDC thing, better yet, put it on the back burner. We have not exhausted all possibilities, we have only exhausted those which were solely on our terms, and left the Delta pilots no choice but to say pound sand. It doesn't need to be this hard, and we will lose in the end otherwise.

--a concerned regional pilot

 

[bvt1151]

ScopeCMRandASA,

You sound like someone who wasn't around Comair for the 89 days in 2001.

 

[46Driver]

Re: Re: ScopeCMRand ASA

BTW, I forgot to answer your other question. I don't have a "profile" listed because I don't have to. In all fairness, yours isn't all that impressive to me. My signoff is all you need to know. Perhaps now, we can debate something relevant?

The screen name of "jarhead" is impressive enough for me. At least he has served his country. Regardless of the argument, closing ranks with my brother Marines.

 

[FDJ2]

Re: Re: Re: ScopeCMRand ASA

The screen name of "jarhead" is impressive enough for me. At least he has served his country.

Maybe he was a Marine maybe he wasn't. I don't think flightinfo requires a notarized copy of a DD214 for someone to claim they served their country. The bottomline is we can all claim anything we want in our profiles. Scope has it right, debate your point of view, stick to the argument at hand and don't get all wrapped up in what someone claims he has in his profile, because it isn't relevant.

 

[46Driver]

They can argue all the want. But when Scope starts insulting one Marine, then he insults us all. And I'll take jarhead at his word that he served in the Corps until he says - or somebody proves - otherwise.

 

[scopeCMRandASA]

ScopeCMRandASA,

You sound like someone who wasn't around Comair for the 89 days in 2001.

You're wrong. You know what, many people out there have struck and not had a job to show for it afterwords. Somebody else always has it worse than you. I believed in what we did, I struck, it's over. Get over it. It does not entitle you to a free ride in this world. You types are no better than the Delta pilots I read about over on the national boards who keep posting how their strike benefits kept us alive during the strike.

We struck, the world must stand in awe of us, so what if we eventually succumbed. But that is for another thread.

As for our Marines, I appreciate your service, and I am slightly envious at the thought of flying a helicopter, but the same argument stands. Let somebody else pat you on the back instead of pointing out your service at every given opportunity.

I am still waiting for relevant debate, anyone?

--a concerned regional pilot

 

[General Lee]

Fins,

The Dalpa MEC members I have talked to directly have said things opposite of your post:

"Amazingly the same junior pilots that are the most rabid supporters of the ALPA spin are the same ones who could get sailed down the river while the senior guys enjoy the preservation of their pay rates. 62% above the industry average for the aircraft type is nothing to be scoffed at and they intend to keep as much of it as is possible at the expense of anyone who has to be sacrificed, including their own junior pilots."

They told me that they may increase productivity when the last furlough has returned. Sure, some senior pilots may wish to hold on to their large salaries and not let go, but Dalpa would take a beating for sacrificing their young. They are still fighting for the 250 furloughs who are coming back by Dec 1st----trying to get back pay for them. To agree to let them go after winning this fight would look very very bad for ALPA and Dalpa---and that is obvious.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Wacopilot]

scopeCMRandASA,

Hey man, I have been reading all of your post and I have a question for you......How come you are so anti-CMR? Why are you against a better life at CMR? Do you owe Delta anything??? You sound like a mis-informed Delta pilot who thinks RJDC is against the DALPA.....I thought they were against ALPA National and the misrepresentation of the CMR/ASA pilots in negotiations???? Please, correct me if I am wrong...... Just chill a little, you are making me embarrassed as a fellow CMR pilot. You sound like you failed a checkride and you got mad....or wait, did you come to CMR thinking there would be a flow-thru???? Poor thing, you sound so sad.


- a not-so-concerned Regional pilot who believed in his pilot leadership

 

[bvt1151]

You types are no better than the Delta pilots I read about over on the national boards who keep posting how their strike benefits kept us alive during the strike.

You mean like these types?

Originally posted by ScopeCMRandASA on August 20th, 2003. Thread: United to "Squash ACA like a bug!"
I walked the line with Comair pilots. I contributed to their fund outside of the assessment.

From another of your famous posts:

Originally posted by ScopeCMRandASA on September 20th, 2003. Thread: Time for ALPA to split?
I get the lecture all of the time in the cockpit. I get the subtle little threats all of the time from those wishing I would just fall in the RJDC line.

If you really had flown with the senior pilots, you would know that this doesn't happen. I'm not "in line" with the RJDC, and have actually had several arguments with Mr. Ford himself, but never have there been threats to fall in line. There isn't one Comair pilot that could honestly say what you said, but I'll be willing to bet there's a Delta pilot who would be low enough to charade as a Comair pilot in an attempt to discredit who doesn't agree with him who would say that.

I think Wacopilot has the same suspicions Les Paul and I do:

Originally posted by Les Paul on September 20th, 2003. Thread: Time for ALPA to split?Yep... their is no doubt who this poster is. Anyone recogize those words? They've been used many times before by this person, only under his other screen name FlyDeltasJets..

How you been FlyDeltasJets? Why don't you just come out and admit that you've created a new "wholly owned" forum name, because you thought pretending to be a Comair or ASA pilot, you would really lend creedence to your rants.

Oh wait, quick.. log off, then back on under FlyDeltasJets to swear and prove its not you. That will really show me.

I don't care about what your saying, its the hiding behind a "concerned regional pilot" title that I find pretty lame.

Come on... you're not fooling anyone FDJ. In fact it really shows what a coward you are.

You have your opions, fine. But we (the real Comair pilots) will not accept an impostor who tries to post inflammatory posts in our name.

 

[whiskytangofoxt]

How long

How long till managment keeps going to the lowest bidder, till one gets balled up?

 

[scopeCMRandASA]

scopeCMRandASA,

Hey man, I have been reading all of your post and I have a question for you......How come you are so anti-CMR? Why are you against a better life at CMR? Do you owe Delta anything??? You sound like a mis-informed Delta pilot who thinks RJDC is against the DALPA.....I thought they were against ALPA National and the misrepresentation of the CMR/ASA pilots in negotiations???? Please, correct me if I am wrong...... Just chill a little, you are making me embarrassed as a fellow CMR pilot. You sound like you failed a checkride and you got mad....or wait, did you come to CMR thinking there would be a flow-thru???? Poor thing, you sound so sad.


- a not-so-concerned Regional pilot who believed in his pilot leadership

You know what? You are right. I do sound negative against CMR , and it isn't intentional. I am all for a better life at Comair, and was a staunch supporter of the strike.

And from my posts, it also appears as if the RJDC lawsuit is against the Delta MEC. It is and it isn't. Legally it is against ALPA, but who are we kidding here. Who would probably suffer the consequences of the lawsuit. I mean, in that same line of reasoning, why do you read so much from Surplus and friends about the Delta MEC needing to get over themselves, the door is open when the Delta MEC wants to work with, yadda, yadda, yadda. Are they not misinformed as well. Should we be talking about ALPA doing this and that. Word usage has never been my strong suit.

I should be clear, I think Comair is a top notch airline with mostly dedicated professionals. My issue is primarily with the more senior contingent holding MY union hostage for a job that I want that they didn't, wouldn't, couldn't have.

--a concerned regional pilot

 

[scopeCMRandASA]

from bvt

If you really had flown with the senior pilots, you would know that this doesn't happen. I'm not "in line" with the RJDC, and have actually had several arguments with Mr. Ford himself, but never have there been threats to fall in line. There isn't one Comair pilot that could honestly say what you said, but I'll be willing to bet there's a Delta pilot who would be low enough to charade as a Comair pilot in an attempt to discredit who doesn't agree with him who would say that.

Consider yourself lucky. I too have talked with Mr. F, and although he is in the same boat with the types I described, I have indeed received the oh so subtle threats, and anonymous not so subtle threats, and can name a few others who have as well.

But go ahead and keep on your hope that I am a Delta pilot. In fact, everybody hope, maybe it will come true. Unfortunately, you'll have to do better than a "their" vs "the" to get me there.


--a concerned regional pilot

 

[bvt1151]

Please explain your previous remarks then:

Originally posted by ScopeCMRandASA
You types are no better than the Delta pilots I read about over on the national boards who keep posting how their strike benefits kept us alive during the strike.

However you must have forgotten that you had earlier said:

Originally posted by ScopeCMRandASA on August 20th, 2003 Thread: United to "Squash ACA like a bug!"
I walked the line with Comair pilots. I contributed to their fund outside of the assessment.

More posters than I have found you suspicious, (i.e. Les Paul, boeingman) and in doing some research I've found that your registration conveniently coincides with a large lull in FlyDeltasJets' posts. In fact, from August 19th (ScopeCMRandASA registered on August 20th) FlyDeltasJets doesn't post again until September 4th, the very day somebody first confronts you about your identity.

You talk much about the specifics of the Delta pilot's contract, as did FlyDeltasJets, but never mention specifics of the Comair contract. In fact, you don't mention anything specific about Comair, and describe our senior pilots as acting much as they would in a confrontation with a Delta pilot, not with a Comair pilot.

Do I have too much time on my hands? I could only wish, but what I do not have time for is somebody posting incognito specifically to create the illusion of dissent within the Comair ranks. I don't think the author of the Benedict Arnold remark really knew how accurate he was.

Help us out...

Who replaced Lynn in the Chief pilot's office?

What happens when you push the automatic opener button on the outside doors to operations?

What happens when you exit the doors at Terminal 1 to catch the bus to the parking lot?

We're timing....

 

[Wacopilot]

bvt1151, good call.......never thought of this fun...

I have some q's, where does the FO's copy of the weight & balance go after it is completed? What color is it?
What is the new callout after we land that MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL?

Here is an easy one, what is our company computer system called?

 

[bvt1151]

I'll even give him a freebie

Question:
What happens when you exit the doors at Terminal 1 to catch the bus to the parking lot?

Answer:
It leaves

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Please explain your previous remarks then:



However you must have forgotten that you had earlier said:



More posters than I have found you suspicious, (i.e. Les Paul, boeingman) and in doing some research I've found that your registration conveniently coincides with a large lull in FlyDeltasJets' posts. In fact, from August 19th (ScopeCMRandASA registered on August 20th) FlyDeltasJets doesn't post again until September 4th, the very day somebody first confronts you about your identity.

Do a search b. I explained why I was fed up with posting on this board. Look in the General section. This was not a "lull," it was a conscious effort to stay off these boards and do something a bit more productive.

Believe it or not.

 

[General Lee]

You guys sound like a bunch of thugs. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. ScopeCMRand ASA has his, and you guys don't like it--so you bash him. That is exactly what your senior pilots do to the junior ones, work with intimidation. Ridiculous.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Hovernut]

Here is an easy one, what is our company computer system called?

Here's another freebie: POS! Especially those in the wings with the dam stupid broke/snagged printers! How 'bout a weather computer with something other than a 8086 driving it!! And while I'm on this rant, how 'bout access to TravelNet from our (insert unnammed company computer system here ) accounts? And the double login???

 

[scopeCMRandASA]

You guys sound like a bunch of thugs. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. ScopeCMRand ASA has his, and you guys don't like it--so you bash him. That is exactly what your senior pilots do to the junior ones, work with intimidation. Ridiculous.

Bye Bye--General Lee

You got it, General. Now I know why FDJ left, and why I should have just stayed as a lurker. Welcome to my daily life. Guys, I am done with the thread creep, your identity crisis. I will say that a copy of every contract is online, my signoff is valid, and I will post again when and if somebody wants to actually debate the true issues. Remember what I have posted. My prediction is that it will come back to haunt you. Take a look in a search on my posts, specifically about interview requirements at SWA. They scoffed there as well.
So much for the exchange of ideas.

--a concerned regional pilot

 

[Treme]

Little bit of thread-creep there. Let's try and wrangle this one away from the RJDC for a moment.

Here were the original 7 questions:

If/When management comes to you and asks for concessions and you say, Not only NO but HECK no! what do you believe their response will be?

1. How will their response impact you and your career?

2. How will it impact the junior pilots on their seniority list?

3. How will their response impact the unity of your pilot group and therefore your stregnth and resolve as a group? (if junior pilots suddenly face furlough)

4. What will your MEC do to foster unity throughout the pilot group?

5. What will your MEC do to prevent, minimize, or mitigate potential furloughs?

6. Does your MEC have a plan that goes beyond "Heck No" and are they prepared to deal with the reality that management will take hostages? Do they have a plan?

7. or am I full of it... will management quietly go home and not come back until the contract is up?

 

[bvt1151]

Apologies Treme, never meant to hijack the thread. We just wanted to make sure that its known that ScopeCMRandASA doesn't speak as a Comair pilot, regardless of his tantrums.

Now, on with the thread!

My answers to your questions...
1. How will their response impact you and your career?

1. Nobody in management is willing to say, or perhaps they don't know because all the real decisions come from Atlanta mgmt has approached us with nothing to offer but "good faith" (whatever that is) that concessions will bring us growth. When a negotiating team approaches the table with nothing to offer, it usually means there will be negative consequences if no agreement is reached.

2. How will it impact the junior pilots on their seniority list?

2. As a jr. pilot, a pay cut for growth would actually lead to an ultimate pay increase. That being said, no growth has been promised...I still vote no.

3. How will their response impact the unity of your pilot group and therefore your stregnth and resolve as a group? (if junior pilots suddenly face furlough)

3. CMR pilots are well known for their solidarity, I'm not sure if there will be an issue between jr. and sr. pilots. However it could be considered that the sole purpose of mgmt's offer was to create that dissent. CMR's negotiating team is very good at what they do, and I wouldn't put it past them.

4. What will your MEC do to foster unity throughout the pilot group?

4. dunno.

5. What will your MEC do to prevent, minimize, or mitigate potential furloughs?

5. I don't think that will be a problem. The reason I say that is that is our major complaint of the Delta pilots. They would rather sacrifice furloughs than give money back. I'm not presenting that as fact, however it is the common feeling at CMR and I think the MEC will go to large measure to prevent that from happening. Then again I may be wrong.

6. Does your MEC have a plan that goes beyond "Heck No" and are they prepared to deal with the reality that management will take hostages? Do they have a plan?

6. My experience would say that they have a plan, however, after talking with some of the reps in the lounge, I walked away largely disappointed and with the feeling that they think nothing will happen if they just say no. I hope that is not the case.

7. or am I full of it... will management quietly go home and not come back until the contract is up?

7. I don't think CMR management initiated the discussions. CMR is making money hand-over-fist. So is ASA, but Delta is not. The CMR mgmt is smart enough to know not to approach us with such an insult unless the order came down from Atlanta. Does DAL mgmt want to be able to return to the DAL pilots and say "we tried to get the Comair pilot's on board, but they scoffed. Your beef is with them"? Splitting the pilot groups always works in mgmt's favor. Remember, Comair is offering something that can only come from Atlanta, growth. We say yes, and they get more money and can say "well Atlanta ultimately makes that decision." WIN. We say no and growth goes to the lowest bidder (We all know who that is)...pilot groups are even more divided. WIN. Either way mgmt wins.

Management is not throwing a hail-mary; they have a plan. I'm disappointed with the union reps in ops because they think we are in a win-win situation when really we are not. Quite the contrary, we are in a lose-lose situation. I really hope they are doing, and thinking something they're not telling us, because not doing anything only lets the events already set in motion play out.