National seniority list.

[General Lee]

I could MAYBE see preferential hiring for other Union members, but at THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST. Sorry, if you rolled the dice and went with another airline (your choice, nobody FORCED you), then you have to start over. Entitlement is soooo USAIR Eastie--ish.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[michael707767]

I don't support this. I don't think you can fairly come up with a single list. Initial DOH? Initial membership in ALPA? Date of Comm/ME?

Think about it. How many folks would have done approached their career choices differently if some arbitrary date is used for a national list? It's not fair to people to change the rules now.

Come up with a fair way to make up the list, and I might support it. But I just don't think you can come up with a fair list.

Seperately, no airline would agree to this. Since none of the current contracts include a nationa seniority list and the right to transfer that seniority, it would have to be negotiated. How much negotiating capital would it cost to force an airline to hire a pilot from the list?

 

[Flopgut]

Really? I missed that section of transportation history. What protections did those pilots get?

To better answer your question: These pilots didn't have to interview for the job. The job was thiers they just had to be intergrated. That's the main issue in this of course. I think all of us would agree that if your airline goes away it's probably not realistic to think you're going to get to integrate at a hiring carrier at the seniority level you were at. But if you could know that you had a job and some sort of intergration that would be good. Especially where if there was an airline that absorbed your former carrier to some degree you had some hiring assurance that would be good. It's important to note: this profession had this at one time. The same a$$clowns that recently pushed for 65 are the ones who scuttled RLA protections 20 years ago.

 

[Flopgut]

At the same time we discuss a NSL, or any other device that helps us work better and longer, we need to talk about how to fiinsh working [retire]. This also pertains to the RLA in my opinion. Face it, most of us would retire at an appropriate time if we had the money. The RLA contains a retirement plan for railroad workers but excludes airline workers. Basically it gets you retired in 20-25 years with a years of service criteria. If we got a similiar benefit that rail workers have right now, we could expect ALL 121 pilots to have a benefit regardless of airplane size, a durable benefit that starts at 10 years of service, unemployment benefits built into the plan in addition to the job protections we are talking about in this thread. It's a good deal.

 

[HalinTexas]

OK, do nothing. The present system works so well............for the employed.

Unity, schmunity. Profession my a$$.

You all whine and complain about things that need to change, but none of you offer solutions. You toubt the party line. The party is part of the problem!

 

[HalinTexas]

Nevermind.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

who is going to pay for it? You want the protections of a NSL... well protection cost money....

Managment going to pay for it?

Doubt it....


How about dues at 5%?

Someone has to pay for it....

Mirror?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

One list within the brand is the correct first step in this direction. .

In addition... we need to raise first year pay....

lets start with 30K for regionals... and 65K for majors...

Thoughts fins?

 

[~~~^~~~]

No objection at all. Maybe even bump it up a little.

It is a separate issue, but related inasmuch as unity is the path that takes us there.

 

[Flopgut]

who is going to pay for it? You want the protections of a NSL... well protection cost money....

Managment going to pay for it?

Doubt it....


How about dues at 5%?

Someone has to pay for it....

Mirror?

You're like a union dues/cost/assessment mascicist. You are just too sure this has to be ultra expensive. Leverage what we want against the RLA. The smart argument is to say: give us the equivilent of the RRB (which is paid for by users) or release this profession to the NLRB.

I'm not saying it's going to be cheap, but it's well within the scope of ALPA's current budget. This would be less expensive than 65.

 

[Flopgut]

Specific discussions of a NSL are difficult because they bring out seniority aggression. Going after the RLA could help in the same way and would do so in a way that would transcend all union and non union lines.

 

[waveflyer]

Flatter wages than that Rez- you can do it- much flatter. There are plenty of carriers that should start FO's out at $80-$100k. That happens industry wide- and captain's at carriers w/ weak/corrupt mgmt will tell that mgmt to piss off and let the carrier die. Right now- we won't do that- and for good reasons.

The job should pay what it's worth. Now. It shouldn't be- "yeah i don't make much now, but when i get to the majors..." ", but when i get off 1st year..." ", but when i upgrade...." ", but when i can hold widebody..."

Get rid of the disparity between FO/CAPT. It's not that capt's don't deserve it- it's that waiting for the upgrade to get paid steals leverage.

GET RID OF THE CARROT- PAY FOR THE JOB YOU ARE DOING TODAY- NOT FOR WHAT IT MIGHT PAY.

(b/c let's be honest- there's a real good chance that it won't.)

 

[Wino]

Anyone who thinks this is a good idea needs to check into the US merchant Marine, They have had a national seniority list since the beginning of time. More ships are out there then ever before (globalization and the oil economy guarantee it), and all the commerce goes back and forth between the USA.

Do a little research and see how the national list worked out for them. I guarantee you we will get a national list, and in return, management will get cabotage, and there will be NO flying jobs in the USA.

Cheers
Wino

PS... I wanted to go to sea more than I wanted airplanes.

 

[Flopgut]

Anyone who thinks this is a good idea needs to check into the US merchant Marine, They have had a national seniority list since the beginning of time. More ships are out there then ever before (globalization and the oil economy guarantee it), and all the commerce goes back and forth between the USA.

Do a little research and see how the national list worked out for them. I guarantee you we will get a national list, and in return, management will get cabotage, and there will be NO flying jobs in the USA.

Cheers
Wino

PS... I wanted to go to sea more than I wanted airplanes.

This is a good point on taking this issue at the RLA.

We challenge the RLA with: Keep the RLA give us the RRB and all assorted/established benefits therein. Or release us from the RLA and let us work with the NLRB. Mgts and oversight will think twice about wanting to get rid of the RLA. The RLA is what keeps us tied to the oars. Cabotage will not be subject to the RLA. As arrogant and wicked a master oversight and mgts are, if those who they allow to cabotage want to withold services they will be completely unable to force them to work.