Nasty Chief Pilots

[747flyboy]

That would piss me off too. Sorry, but you don't sound like you'd be very agreeable to fly with as either FO or Captain. Self-righteousness is not an endearing quality... maybe those captains were "azzclowns" but there's a right way and a wrong way to approach it. Nobody appreciates being constantly second guessed.

And here we go again with typical forum bullsh1t. I didn't think I would have to explain in detail with a 1,000 word post telling how I would fly with these certain idiots and learn about their bad, unsafe habits. After learning about these certain pilots I would than, as co-pilot, become the final authority when it came to their bad decisions, otherwise that plane goes nowhere.

Second guessing is what some captains need because they simply suck, sorry.

I flew with good captains too who didn't make stupid decisions, we got along great and they got the respect they deserved. But when you fly with a total azzhole who makes decisions that can kill you, sorry, I won't have it. Thats why there are two pilots in these types of aircraft, two heads not just one head with an idiot wearing it.

Maybe you skated through and didn't have to deal with unsafe fools, I had a large dose of them and I made a simple rule for myslef when I got out of college....ready, here goes, its real simple......"Ain't no pilot of any kind gonna kill my ass because they're inexperienced or just plain stupid."

I doubt seriously if a brand new co-pilot out of an instructing job could come into a Part 135 all-jet aircraft operation and on Day 1 tell everyone how its gonna be and that I'll be making all the decisions. You have to be able to get the implied info from a post.

How about this: (6 years ago) One of these idiot captains I speak of is sitting at Stuart airport with my fiance who is also a co-pilot. I'm in Nassau waiting for them because we're picking up a party of 13, so we needed two Lears. He's a fat slob of a captain and my fiance has been a co-pilot for 2 months. So, this fat slob doesn't want to wait for the fuel truck anymore because he doesn't want to miss out on the free conch salad they give us at the FBO. Long story short....they had to shut an engine down on the gas-sucking Lear 25 so they had enough fuel to get in. She came up to us scared ********************less, they pulled into the ramp with 300 pounds in the left wing. If you know anything about Lear 25's you'll know that 300 pounds is PATHETIC. I did everything but beat his fat azz on the ramp. Even after dealing with me for the past 9 months before I made captain, he still risked peoples lives like that with stupid decisions. That was his last flight with the company because I told the boss she will never fly with that azzhole again and that I will be telling the rest of the co-pilots to refuse as well. Same captain that slid to the end of the runway due to ice at PDK sideways for 1,000 feet. Same guy that lands at the wrong airports, takes out taxi-way lights because he's looking inside, hits a wingtip on a fence, doesn't set the parking break and almost totals the plane into a ditch, blah, blah, blah.

I ask every co-pilot I fly with for every single bit of input they have. If they want more fuel I'd put it on just to show them and than at destination explain why we have so much fuel, thats how they learn. And if they're not happy about anything we talk about it.

And you're wrong, I'm just the captain people want to fly with. I value any and all input, even if its a disagreement about a decision. Planes I fly at least take-off with both pilots happy and comfortable about the flight.

 

[747flyboy]

Yeah those types really suck...so far, the Capts I've flown with here at my new job have been great. Good pilots, but also are not affraid to ask "well we should do this, What do you think?". That's what I like, why b/c the day I become a captain here which wont be to long now, I will do the same with my FOs. Ask them if they are comfortable with my decisions, if they are ok accepting the trip. Last captain I flew with was great, we had a 9:00am departure, a show time of 8:00am, and he would say. You wanna show at 8:00 or 8:30, that's just great to me.
Of course not every captain can do that, especially if you have a very slow FO or the other way around.
The thing that pisses me off about some of the ****************************** bags I've flown with is that they act as if they where born a captain.
Like I told a guy before, you want me to be the ideal captain then you have to make me a captain, by teaching and example. Not by "just do it" or "do it this way b/c I said so"

The way I always taught was "hey, just an opinion. Try doing this, or try this technique." then explain why and the benefits of doing it that way. I always finish that with a "this is just my opinion, or if you have a better way please le me know"

YOU WILL ALWAYS KEEP LEARNING MR CP!!

Exactly. The second a person thinks they're something special because they're a PILOT or for GOD sake they make CAPTAIN, thats when they become a total...TOOL. Alot of captains also think there's no more for them to learn.

Its pretty obvious that to have a real accident, as in fatal, an amazing amount of things have to go wrong. Barring a wing coming off. Otherwise out of the 10,000+ take-offs and landings we have every day, we'd have dozens of crashes every day.
The main thing most captains forget is the reaon there's another pilot on board. Its certainly not just to land the plane in case the captain drops dead. Its to minimize the chance of all those holes lining up in that Swiss cheese model (the swiss cheeze effect). And those decisions start hours before the flight.

Thats how I instructed too. Teach them the only way you know how, if they can do it safely and get the required result your way or their way, well great, they're becoming their own pilot.

 

[Flybet3]

And here we go again with typical forum bullsh1t. I didn't think I would have to explain in detail with a 1,000 word post telling how I would fly with these certain idiots and learn about their bad, unsafe habits. After learning about these certain pilots I would than, as co-pilot, become the final authority when it came to their bad decisions, otherwise that plane goes nowhere.

Second guessing is what some captains need because they simply suck, sorry.

I flew with good captains too who didn't make stupid decisions, we got along great and they got the respect they deserved. But when you fly with a total azzhole who makes decisions that can kill you, sorry, I won't have it. Thats why there are two pilots in these types of aircraft, two heads not just one head with an idiot wearing it.

Maybe you skated through and didn't have to deal with unsafe fools, I had a large dose of them and I made a simple rule for myslef when I got out of college....ready, here goes, its real simple......"Ain't no pilot of any kind gonna kill my ass because they're inexperienced or just plain stupid."

I doubt seriously if a brand new co-pilot out of an instructing job could come into a Part 135 all-jet aircraft operation and on Day 1 tell everyone how its gonna be and that I'll be making all the decisions. You have to be able to get the implied info from a post.

How about this: (6 years ago) One of these idiot captains I speak of is sitting at Stuart airport with my fiance who is also a co-pilot. I'm in Nassau waiting for them because we're picking up a party of 13, so we needed two Lears. He's a fat slob of a captain and my fiance has been a co-pilot for 2 months. So, this fat slob doesn't want to wait for the fuel truck anymore because he doesn't want to miss out on the free conch salad they give us at the FBO. Long story short....they had to shut an engine down on the gas-sucking Lear 25 so they had enough fuel to get in. She came up to us scared ********************less, they pulled into the ramp with 300 pounds in the left wing. If you know anything about Lear 25's you'll know that 300 pounds is PATHETIC. I did everything but beat his fat azz on the ramp. Even after dealing with me for the past 9 months before I made captain, he still risked peoples lives like that with stupid decisions. That was his last flight with the company because I told the boss she will never fly with that azzhole again and that I will be telling the rest of the co-pilots to refuse as well. Same captain that slid to the end of the runway due to ice at PDK sideways for 1,000 feet. Same guy that lands at the wrong airports, takes out taxi-way lights because he's looking inside, hits a wingtip on a fence, doesn't set the parking break and almost totals the plane into a ditch, blah, blah, blah.

I ask every co-pilot I fly with for every single bit of input they have. If they want more fuel I'd put it on just to show them and than at destination explain why we have so much fuel, thats how they learn. And if they're not happy about anything we talk about it.

And you're wrong, I'm just the captain people want to fly with. I value any and all input, even if its a disagreement about a decision. Planes I fly at least take-off with both pilots happy and comfortable about the flight.

Hey 747flyboy
you sound like my kind of guy, let me buy you a beer one of theses days.
When I grow up I want to be just like you

 

[747flyboy]

Hey 747flyboy
you sound like my kind of guy, let me buy you a beer one of theses days.
When I grow up I want to be just like you

I live in Orlando and Ft. Lauderdale.

 

[ackattacker]

I wasn't trying to start a flame war... I know people like that exist. I quit a job once over just such an idiot. As an FO I had to repeatedly stand up for what was safe and legal and it got to be too much. I've heard it all - "Watch this", "This airplane was designed to fly way over gross", "That fuel pump isn't required", etc etc. Hell I had one guy I told to go around and he refused ("watch this"). After that he throws it into beta in flight (prohibited) and we still almost run off the runway. After nearly killing us all he says "I appreciate the input, but I'm PIC".

Anyway I still always tried to maintain a non-confrontational but firm attitude about it, because A-holes just turn into bigger A-holes when put on the defensive. My point was that I would hope that if an FO was not happy about my fuel order or anything else they would go through me and talk about it. If they went straight to the fueler and changed the order on their own then I'd consider that way out of line and pretty much open revolt. At the point where it's open revolt then you're no longer a crew and you need to step back and say "this trip isn't going to be safe no matter what so this job is not worth my certificates and possibly my life".

Anyway, no hard feelings, I'd have a beer with you too.

 

[Flybet3]

I wasn't trying to start a flame war... I know people like that exist. I quit a job once over just such an idiot. As an FO I had to repeatedly stand up for what was safe and legal and it got to be too much. I've heard it all - "Watch this", "This airplane was designed to fly way over gross", "That fuel pump isn't required", etc etc. Hell I had one guy I told to go around and he refused ("watch this"). After that he throws it into beta in flight (prohibited) and we still almost run off the runway. After nearly killing us all he says "I appreciate the input, but I'm PIC".

Anyway I still always tried to maintain a non-confrontational but firm attitude about it, because A-holes just turn into bigger A-holes when put on the defensive. My point was that I would hope that if an FO was not happy about my fuel order or anything else they would go through me and talk about it. If they went straight to the fueler and changed the order on their own then I'd consider that way out of line and pretty much open revolt. At the point where it's open revolt then you're no longer a crew and you need to step back and say "this trip isn't going to be safe no matter what so this job is not worth my certificates and possibly my life".

Anyway, no hard feelings, I'd have a beer with you too.

Let's just all get drunk, stand on the breaks and go to full reverse 100 feet of the ground! LOL

 

[81Horse]

Anyone here had any experiences with chief pilots that are truly **************************************** ?

Do DOs count? One of them tried to kill me in a LR35 once, and I'm still a little bitter about that.

He didn't mind using the brakes, though. In fact, on that flight, he couldn't get to parking and out of the airplane fast enough.

 

[747flyboy]

I wasn't trying to start a flame war... I know people like that exist. I quit a job once over just such an idiot. As an FO I had to repeatedly stand up for what was safe and legal and it got to be too much. I've heard it all - "Watch this", "This airplane was designed to fly way over gross", "That fuel pump isn't required", etc etc. Hell I had one guy I told to go around and he refused ("watch this"). After that he throws it into beta in flight (prohibited) and we still almost run off the runway. After nearly killing us all he says "I appreciate the input, but I'm PIC".

Anyway I still always tried to maintain a non-confrontational but firm attitude about it, because A-holes just turn into bigger A-holes when put on the defensive. My point was that I would hope that if an FO was not happy about my fuel order or anything else they would go through me and talk about it. If they went straight to the fueler and changed the order on their own then I'd consider that way out of line and pretty much open revolt. At the point where it's open revolt then you're no longer a crew and you need to step back and say "this trip isn't going to be safe no matter what so this job is not worth my certificates and possibly my life".

Anyway, no hard feelings, I'd have a beer with you too.

Understood. But yes, I didn't show up as a zero hour jet co-pilot and tell everyone how it was gonna be, I would do these things after repeated bad decisions when they didn't care about my input. Luckily for me the owner of the company liked me alot and we became friends in a short time. And all these bad captains were contract guys so he didn't really care how I treated them. Our full time salary captains were all great and very safe. After these contact guys showed me zero respect I would than do things like add fuel without telling them because they just argued and refused if I talked about it. After awhile a few of them would jokingly, but serious before a flight, look at me and say, "so is this fuel order good with you?" And we would still land with 1,000 pounds in a Lear 25, which is not alot of reserve. One VFR, in-the-pattern go-around and there goes 600-700 pounds. Vectors back out in IMC for another shot at an ILS, or even worse have to get in line for a non-precision approach, and now you're tooling around with death.

I've had the "I appreciate the input, but I'm PIC" comment too. I followed up with, "risk the plane and us again and I'll be the one to kick your ass." No kidding, just how I was and always will be. I'm the guy that'll tell an FAA inspector on a 747 captain fed ride to please keep his mouth shut while we're on final shooting an ILS into Anchorage in bad weather because we're trying to read checklists. I'm just a guy that speaks up and hates the high-and-mighty idiots in this industry. I've never been fired from a job but I'd certainly rather get fired from being the way I am and speaking up than take any crap or let someone conduct a flight unsafely in any way.

Really though, I was a co-pilot for all of 9-10 months, after that I was captain and since than there's been no problems. My co-pilots are looked at as 50% of the crew and their input is quite important to me. One day they may catch something critical that I miss and I don't want someone sitting there worrying about if I'm gonna shut them down or snap at them for saying something or for disagreeing with me. But I was co-pilot on the 747 and luckily 99% of them realized you don't play games and alter tried and true procedures, but man there were certainly a couple that thought they were God. I just laughed at them and cut up on them.

Let the beers fly

 

[747flyboy]

Do DOs count? One of them tried to kill me in a LR35 once, and I'm still a little bitter about that.

He didn't mind using the brakes, though. In fact, on that flight, he couldn't get to parking and out of the airplane fast enough.

DO's, same thing, mostly knuckleheads on a power trip. Some fly every couple months so they can tell people they fly too, but really their just dangerous as hell.

 

[LimoDriver]

It seems to me that 747Flyboy thinks he is God's gift to aviation!

What's the common denominator in all the Captains you think are trying to kill you? It's you! And your attitude problem.

I don't think I'd have wanted to fly with you as my F/O. I run a very open, even "democratic" flight deck. I solicit and act on all crew inputs.....But I do not let the F/O assume "command" of the flight.

Just my $.02