My Rant on the STUPID & SPINELESS Flight Options Management!

[1po'dpilot]

Scumza - don't you have your "deviant art" to tend to? I do like your new sig, however shouldn't it read "Life is more difficult when you surround yourself with stupid?"

 

[EX_CV580FR8Dawg]

What does that mean? You gonna to cut the elevator cables? Cut fuel lines?

Hey goo, whydontchya comeon over to da bada bing...someone wants to have a chat witchya!

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd33/v1roteight/funny stuff/tony_soprano_close_up.jpg

 

[Publishers]

"along with the likes of Carl Icahn and Frank Lorenzo,"
I don't know who would be insulted more by this comment, Ricci or them. In either case, there is certainly no comparison. There really is no comparison between Icahn and Lorenzo but that is another story.
Whatever FO that will emerge, it will not be like the old one. That failed. Management did not declare some war on the pilot group. Someone said they would not be around in 2012. They will not last that long the way they are going no matter how many they terminate.
If you hasten the demise in an effort to show them who is boss, what exactly does that accomplish, some empty feeling on the unemployment line. Those employees sure showed Frank Lorenzo who was boss. They shut down the carrier. Most that I knew lost that euphoria in about a week, the rest in a month. Some did get work, the bottom of the seniority line starting over late in life. Some invested their money in airlines. Does anyone remember KIWI.
FLOPS had an idea, and it did not work. We can throw out a bunch of rhetoric about whose fault, why, how terrible the place was, poor managment, poor this and that.
As I said in another place, managements do not set our to battle employees, their effective utilization and cultivation are the keys to success. They are the keys but the car has to have an engine that works.

 

[B19 Flyer]

"along with the likes of Carl Icahn and Frank Lorenzo,"
I don't know who would be insulted more by this comment, Ricci or them. In either case, there is certainly no comparison. There really is no comparison between Icahn and Lorenzo but that is another story.
Whatever FO that will emerge, it will not be like the old one. That failed. Management did not declare some war on the pilot group. Someone said they would not be around in 2012. They will not last that long the way they are going no matter how many they terminate.
If you hasten the demise in an effort to show them who is boss, what exactly does that accomplish, some empty feeling on the unemployment line. Those employees sure showed Frank Lorenzo who was boss. They shut down the carrier. Most that I knew lost that euphoria in about a week, the rest in a month. Some did get work, the bottom of the seniority line starting over late in life. Some invested their money in airlines. Does anyone remember KIWI.
FLOPS had an idea, and it did not work. We can throw out a bunch of rhetoric about whose fault, why, how terrible the place was, poor managment, poor this and that.
As I said in another place, managements do not set our to battle employees, their effective utilization and cultivation are the keys to success. They are the keys but the car has to have an engine that works.

The majority of these guys don't have a clue about Eastern. They only know that Lorenzo was the hated one and the that carrier was shut down.

My guess is that few of them know it was actually the mechanics union, not the pilots union, that shut down Eastern. Lorenzo thought it was crazy that ground personel and cleaners were making near 6 figure incomes with overtime. Even when he dumped a bunch of money into programs that would allow them to earn their A & P certificates, the union told him to screw off because by the contract they were already making that much.

What is happening at FLOPS is nothing like at Eastern, but 64% of the FLOPS pilots wanted the union, and they are getting what they asked for that the union never told them was going to happen.

 

[dime line]

The majority of these guys don't have a clue about Eastern. They only know that Lorenzo was the hated one and the that carrier was shut down.

My guess is that few of them know it was actually the mechanics union, not the pilots union, that shut down Eastern. Lorenzo thought it was crazy that ground personel and cleaners were making near 6 figure incomes with overtime. Even when he dumped a bunch of money into programs that would allow them to earn their A & P certificates, the union told him to screw off because by the contract they were already making that much.

What is happening at FLOPS is nothing like at Eastern, but 64% of the FLOPS pilots wanted the union, and they are getting what they asked for that the union never told them was going to happen.

SCAB....

 

[Publishers]

Another intelligent comment while Rome is burning.

 

[WabiSabi]

FLOPS had an idea, and it did not work. We can throw out a bunch of rhetoric about whose fault, why, how terrible the place was, poor managment, poor this and that.

That it is a grossly oversimplified statement. Who is at fault and incompetent management has everything to do with it. If you knew anything about what it is like to be a FLOPS pilot, you would actually have a clue.

As I said in another place, managements do not set our to battle employees, their effective utilization and cultivation are the keys to success. They are the keys but the car has to have an engine that works.

Anyone that thinks that management's decision to fire 76 pilots was anything short of hostile is living in a vacuum and deluding himself.


Until you have walked in their shoes, remember that you're just an armchair quarterback giving your insight from the peanut gallery.

 

[chingaso]

... but 64% of the FLOPS pilots wanted the union, and they are getting what they asked for that the union never told them was going to happen.

So, basically, the mass termination was indeed a punitve, anti-union action, is what you're statement infers.

Remember, there is no contract in place at Options yet. Everything is still "status quo" (except for the weekly modifications to the GM and SOPs). Financially, labor costs at Flight Options have not risen a single cent over the entire tenure of Michael Sheeringa. You probably should have said "serves them right" instead of saying that the pilots "got what they asked for." Slip of the tongue, there, B.

The pilots, and other employees at Flight Options have not contributed to the failure of the Go Forward plan or Vision 2012 (or whatever fancy slogan-of-the-day the suits want to name it). Now before you play the "excessive write up" card, also remember that the maintenance department has been a shady operation since the inception of the company. Poor-boying aviation has been a temptation many a manager has fallen prey to in this industry, and it always yields the same results.

When the Union began to evolve, the years-long practice of brow-beating and intimidating pilots into illegally flying broken airplanes in order to "get the job done" was finally challenged; strength in numbers. Pilots either stopped being afraid for their jobs for doing the right thing, or got to the point where they didn't care anymore. "These pilots are driving the company into the ground!!" How many times have we heard that out of the mouths of the non-flying managerial cadre in Cuyahoga County? Such a tired-assed slogan, they need a new one. They were crying the same silly and false thing 2 years ago when pilots refused to answer their phones before they were scheduled on duty. That didn't run anything into anything and neither will properly documenting discrepencies. The only reason there are "excessive write-ups" is because the amount of things that need writing up are excessive, and they are finally (finally) being documented. Sure, there are a few people out there that write things up that one could question, or purposely look for things to 501, but they are the exception, not the rule. They only get press because of the nature of the write-up, yet the office folks point to these few as if the entire pilot group is responsible, which they aren't. I'm sure there's an emotional kick to blaming the whole group, but at the end of the day its a baseless criticism. Blaming the pilots for excessive write-ups is like arresting a mugging victim instead of the mugger.

If the fine folks that were just terminated last week were fired for financial reasons, "just business," then it clearly speaks to the current management's lack of competency, given that virtually all their competitors have higher labor costs and are apparently growing profits.

Labor costs are obviously not the culprit, so where's all the money going?

 

[Publishers]

I think that if you think all the competitors are apparently growing profits, you must have some knowledge that I do not know. In fact, NJ is the only company that I think is maintaining profits and the impact from the current changes in financial markets has not yet impacted that company. Flops as a company has clearly failed. Aborted attempts to join with a deeper pocket manufacturer did not work. Now swallowed by a bigger fish has not proved viable yet. Flexjet, Citation Shares, and Avantair are not just blowing and going. In fact, XO is the only one with projected real growth at the moment and I have not seen their profits.
You tell me,,,, how has the fleet grown because that is a direct relationship to how many pilots are going to be on the property. If they let go 76 pilots and are growing the fleet, that is hostile. If they lost 40 aircraft, what did you think would happen.

 

[chingaso]

In order to discuss this with you, Publishers, and in order to answer your question farily, first answer mine:

What would you consider a proper and effective pilot-to-airframe ratio for such an operation? 2-to-1, 4-to-1, 6-to-1, etc.?

 

[Greaseman]

I think that if you think all the competitors are apparently growing profits, you must have some knowledge that I do not know. In fact, NJ is the only company that I think is maintaining profits and the impact from the current changes in financial markets has not yet impacted that company. Flops as a company has clearly failed. Aborted attempts to join with a deeper pocket manufacturer did not work. Now swallowed by a bigger fish has not proved viable yet. Flexjet, Citation Shares, and Avantair are not just blowing and going. In fact, XO is the only one with projected real growth at the moment and I have not seen their profits.
You tell me,,,, how has the fleet grown because that is a direct relationship to how many pilots are going to be on the property. If they let go 76 pilots and are growing the fleet, that is hostile. If they lost 40 aircraft, what did you think would happen.

What I think would happen, did happen...the point is that this management team opted for an openly hostile excercise in the form of mass terminations versus a furlough or a lay-off that might have included bringing those pilots affected back when the fleet size warranted it.

The real question is why this lame-a$$ management team continues to flounder when the rest of the industry continues to solidify it's respective market niche.

FLOPS pilots could work for free, pay for their own training, bring 8 days worth of sack lunches and these blind idiots would still find a way to lose this thing.

 

[B19 Flyer]

So, basically, the mass termination was indeed a punitve, anti-union action, is what you're statement infers.

No, that's not what I'm saying. What I am saying, is the unionizing any company is a nasty, ugly and destructive process.

There is no way to predict what is going to happen. If you look at what NJ went through duing the negotiations process, they stopped hiring and were chartering like crazy because they had no idea what the contract was going to be like.

The layoffs/firings/furloughs don't surprise me. As a matter of fact, nothing surprises me when it comes to unionizing any company, especially an air carrier.

Before the pilots voted for the union, my bet is that not a single union rep told the "future" membership, that it's war until the CBA is signed, and it could go as far as you losing your job.

I feel especially bad for those that are being affected by all this that are innocent bystanders and collateral damage. That is where I stood both times.

Be careful what you ask for.

 

[B19 Flyer]

SCAB....

Dimeline...

Let's make this clear. I would have crossed the picket line, I never had the opportunity too.

It takes more nuts to cross a picket line than to worship Beavis.

What you need is a good furlough so you can see the other side.

 

[B19 Flyer]

In order to discuss this with you, Publishers, and in order to answer your question farily, first answer mine:

What would you consider a proper and effective pilot-to-airframe ratio for such an operation? 2-to-1, 4-to-1, 6-to-1, etc.?

Each business model is different and is individual based on contract or work rules, aircraft mix, length of tenure (vacations) etc. Traditional is around 4.3 to 1.

 

[brokeflyer]

No, that's not what I'm saying. What I am saying, is the unionizing any company is a nasty, ugly and destructive process.

There is no way to predict what is going to happen. If you look at what NJ went through duing the negotiations process, they stopped hiring and were chartering like crazy because they had no idea what the contract was going to be like.

The layoffs/firings/furloughs don't surprise me. As a matter of fact, nothing surprises me when it comes to unionizing any company, especially an air carrier.

Before the pilots voted for the union, my bet is that not a single union rep told the "future" membership, that it's war until the CBA is signed, and it could go as far as you losing your job.

I feel especially bad for those that are being affected by all this that are innocent bystanders and collateral damage. That is where I stood both times.

Be careful what you ask for.

so your saying you don't unions?

maybe you should go to the "majors" thread....im sure there are a lotta other scabs over there.