My Rant on the STUPID & SPINELESS Flight Options Management!

[Publishers]

Another intelligent comment while Rome is burning.

 

[WabiSabi]

FLOPS had an idea, and it did not work. We can throw out a bunch of rhetoric about whose fault, why, how terrible the place was, poor managment, poor this and that.

That it is a grossly oversimplified statement. Who is at fault and incompetent management has everything to do with it. If you knew anything about what it is like to be a FLOPS pilot, you would actually have a clue.

As I said in another place, managements do not set our to battle employees, their effective utilization and cultivation are the keys to success. They are the keys but the car has to have an engine that works.

Anyone that thinks that management's decision to fire 76 pilots was anything short of hostile is living in a vacuum and deluding himself.


Until you have walked in their shoes, remember that you're just an armchair quarterback giving your insight from the peanut gallery.

 

[chingaso]

... but 64% of the FLOPS pilots wanted the union, and they are getting what they asked for that the union never told them was going to happen.

So, basically, the mass termination was indeed a punitve, anti-union action, is what you're statement infers.

Remember, there is no contract in place at Options yet. Everything is still "status quo" (except for the weekly modifications to the GM and SOPs). Financially, labor costs at Flight Options have not risen a single cent over the entire tenure of Michael Sheeringa. You probably should have said "serves them right" instead of saying that the pilots "got what they asked for." Slip of the tongue, there, B.

The pilots, and other employees at Flight Options have not contributed to the failure of the Go Forward plan or Vision 2012 (or whatever fancy slogan-of-the-day the suits want to name it). Now before you play the "excessive write up" card, also remember that the maintenance department has been a shady operation since the inception of the company. Poor-boying aviation has been a temptation many a manager has fallen prey to in this industry, and it always yields the same results.

When the Union began to evolve, the years-long practice of brow-beating and intimidating pilots into illegally flying broken airplanes in order to "get the job done" was finally challenged; strength in numbers. Pilots either stopped being afraid for their jobs for doing the right thing, or got to the point where they didn't care anymore. "These pilots are driving the company into the ground!!" How many times have we heard that out of the mouths of the non-flying managerial cadre in Cuyahoga County? Such a tired-assed slogan, they need a new one. They were crying the same silly and false thing 2 years ago when pilots refused to answer their phones before they were scheduled on duty. That didn't run anything into anything and neither will properly documenting discrepencies. The only reason there are "excessive write-ups" is because the amount of things that need writing up are excessive, and they are finally (finally) being documented. Sure, there are a few people out there that write things up that one could question, or purposely look for things to 501, but they are the exception, not the rule. They only get press because of the nature of the write-up, yet the office folks point to these few as if the entire pilot group is responsible, which they aren't. I'm sure there's an emotional kick to blaming the whole group, but at the end of the day its a baseless criticism. Blaming the pilots for excessive write-ups is like arresting a mugging victim instead of the mugger.

If the fine folks that were just terminated last week were fired for financial reasons, "just business," then it clearly speaks to the current management's lack of competency, given that virtually all their competitors have higher labor costs and are apparently growing profits.

Labor costs are obviously not the culprit, so where's all the money going?

 

[Publishers]

I think that if you think all the competitors are apparently growing profits, you must have some knowledge that I do not know. In fact, NJ is the only company that I think is maintaining profits and the impact from the current changes in financial markets has not yet impacted that company. Flops as a company has clearly failed. Aborted attempts to join with a deeper pocket manufacturer did not work. Now swallowed by a bigger fish has not proved viable yet. Flexjet, Citation Shares, and Avantair are not just blowing and going. In fact, XO is the only one with projected real growth at the moment and I have not seen their profits.
You tell me,,,, how has the fleet grown because that is a direct relationship to how many pilots are going to be on the property. If they let go 76 pilots and are growing the fleet, that is hostile. If they lost 40 aircraft, what did you think would happen.

 

[chingaso]

In order to discuss this with you, Publishers, and in order to answer your question farily, first answer mine:

What would you consider a proper and effective pilot-to-airframe ratio for such an operation? 2-to-1, 4-to-1, 6-to-1, etc.?

 

[Greaseman]

I think that if you think all the competitors are apparently growing profits, you must have some knowledge that I do not know. In fact, NJ is the only company that I think is maintaining profits and the impact from the current changes in financial markets has not yet impacted that company. Flops as a company has clearly failed. Aborted attempts to join with a deeper pocket manufacturer did not work. Now swallowed by a bigger fish has not proved viable yet. Flexjet, Citation Shares, and Avantair are not just blowing and going. In fact, XO is the only one with projected real growth at the moment and I have not seen their profits.
You tell me,,,, how has the fleet grown because that is a direct relationship to how many pilots are going to be on the property. If they let go 76 pilots and are growing the fleet, that is hostile. If they lost 40 aircraft, what did you think would happen.

What I think would happen, did happen...the point is that this management team opted for an openly hostile excercise in the form of mass terminations versus a furlough or a lay-off that might have included bringing those pilots affected back when the fleet size warranted it.

The real question is why this lame-a$$ management team continues to flounder when the rest of the industry continues to solidify it's respective market niche.

FLOPS pilots could work for free, pay for their own training, bring 8 days worth of sack lunches and these blind idiots would still find a way to lose this thing.

 

[B19 Flyer]

So, basically, the mass termination was indeed a punitve, anti-union action, is what you're statement infers.

No, that's not what I'm saying. What I am saying, is the unionizing any company is a nasty, ugly and destructive process.

There is no way to predict what is going to happen. If you look at what NJ went through duing the negotiations process, they stopped hiring and were chartering like crazy because they had no idea what the contract was going to be like.

The layoffs/firings/furloughs don't surprise me. As a matter of fact, nothing surprises me when it comes to unionizing any company, especially an air carrier.

Before the pilots voted for the union, my bet is that not a single union rep told the "future" membership, that it's war until the CBA is signed, and it could go as far as you losing your job.

I feel especially bad for those that are being affected by all this that are innocent bystanders and collateral damage. That is where I stood both times.

Be careful what you ask for.

 

[B19 Flyer]

SCAB....

Dimeline...

Let's make this clear. I would have crossed the picket line, I never had the opportunity too.

It takes more nuts to cross a picket line than to worship Beavis.

What you need is a good furlough so you can see the other side.

 

[B19 Flyer]

In order to discuss this with you, Publishers, and in order to answer your question farily, first answer mine:

What would you consider a proper and effective pilot-to-airframe ratio for such an operation? 2-to-1, 4-to-1, 6-to-1, etc.?

Each business model is different and is individual based on contract or work rules, aircraft mix, length of tenure (vacations) etc. Traditional is around 4.3 to 1.

 

[brokeflyer]

No, that's not what I'm saying. What I am saying, is the unionizing any company is a nasty, ugly and destructive process.

There is no way to predict what is going to happen. If you look at what NJ went through duing the negotiations process, they stopped hiring and were chartering like crazy because they had no idea what the contract was going to be like.

The layoffs/firings/furloughs don't surprise me. As a matter of fact, nothing surprises me when it comes to unionizing any company, especially an air carrier.

Before the pilots voted for the union, my bet is that not a single union rep told the "future" membership, that it's war until the CBA is signed, and it could go as far as you losing your job.

I feel especially bad for those that are being affected by all this that are innocent bystanders and collateral damage. That is where I stood both times.

Be careful what you ask for.

so your saying you don't unions?

maybe you should go to the "majors" thread....im sure there are a lotta other scabs over there.

 

[be40isme]

Dimeline...

Let's make this clear. I would have crossed the picket line, I never had the opportunity too.

It takes more nuts to cross a picket line than to worship Beavis.

What you need is a good furlough so you can see the other side.

I use to think B19 was Tyler but B19 has over 600 posts. I dont think Tyler's got the brains to think that much into union retoric. My guess is B19 is someone from Ford and Harrison. 630 posts x 20 minutes = 210 billable hours. 210 billable hours @ $700 per hour = $147,000. Not bad filler for Ford and Harrison.

 

[fischman]

It doesn't take much brain power to post the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

 

[netjetwife]

Nor guts to attack a pilot's wife for supporting her husband, his co-workers, and peers in the industry...

WORD TWISTING FUD SPINNERS DESERVE THE BLACK BOOT

 

[hawkercpt]

OMG. Inatead of worrying about important things, like the pilots out there that are without jobs, lets whine about the whole union, non union, scab crap. You morons have completely destroid these threads about Options and what is going on. No wonder I haven't been here in over a year. Grow up.

 

[SilverSurfer]

B19 and his enablers

Leave it to butthead Bob/B19 and the people on here that continue to respond to him to side track any subject to a union/non union tirade. When will they learn. :smash:

OMG. Inatead of worrying about important things, like the pilots out there that are without jobs, lets whine about the whole union, non union, scab crap. You morons have completely destroid these threads about Options and what is going on. No wonder I haven't been here in over a year. Grow up.

 

[learflyer]

The guy is not Bob Tyler unless someone can prove his posts come from the Cleveland area, otherwise I don't want to hear it!

 

[B19 Flyer]

Nor guts to attack a pilot's wife for supporting her husband, his co-workers, and peers in the industry...

WORD TWISTING FUD SPINNERS DESERVE THE BLACK BOOT

You are not just a pilots wife.

You are a staunch supporter of unions even though you have never worked in the industry nor belonged to one. When the union failed to give you what you wanted at AA, you bailed out and went to NJ.

You have destructive attitudes toward the aviation industry, such as your comment about Flight Options pilots "winning" rather than negotiating a contract. To you it's competition, not what is best for the pilots, the employees, the company and last but not least, the industry.

You support your husband as all wifes should, however your union support is based on the fact he is a union employee that is paid for work he does with the union. Your support goes directly into your pocket. The continued success of the union at NJ lines your personal wallet.

You have disrespected those employees that have chosen non-pilot careers.

You don't have any personal experience in the industry short of being a pilot's wife. That in itself is one reason to continue to point out dumb statements you make.

You are entitled to your opinions, I'm entitled to counteract your opinions by pointing out those statements you make that are counterproductive to the fractional industry.

I'm not attacking a pilot's wife, I'm attacking the flawed idealism exhibited by her. It would be anybody with the same lack of knowledge whom is so vocal with a personal agenda.

Oh, the continued reference to the black boots is hideous and disgusting.

 

[dime line]

You are not just a pilots wife.

You are a staunch supporter of unions even though you have never worked in the industry nor belonged to one. When the union failed to give you what you wanted at AA, you bailed out and went to NJ.

You have destructive attitudes toward the aviation industry, such as your comment about Flight Options pilots "winning" rather than negotiating a contract. To you it's competition, not what is best for the pilots, the employees, the company and last but not least, the industry.

You support your husband as all wifes should, however your union support is based on the fact he is a union employee that is paid for work he does with the union. Your support goes directly into your pocket. The continued success of the union at NJ lines your personal wallet.

You have disrespected those employees that have chosen non-pilot careers.

You don't have any personal experience in the industry short of being a pilot's wife. That in itself is one reason to continue to point out dumb statements you make.

You are entitled to your opinions, I'm entitled to counteract your opinions by pointing out those statements you make that are counterproductive to the fractional industry.

I'm not attacking a pilot's wife, I'm attacking the flawed idealism exhibited by her. It would be anybody with the same lack of knowledge whom is so vocal with a personal agenda.

Oh, the continued reference to the black boots is hideous and disgusting.

SCAB.....

 

[netjetwife]

OMG. Inatead of worrying about important things, like the pilots out there that are without jobs, lets whine about the whole union, non union, scab crap. You morons have completely destroid (Observation: misspelling a common word while calling others stupid destroyed your credibility.) these threads about Options and what is going on. No wonder I haven't been here in over a year. Your prerogative but you've missed a lot of supportive words posted for pilots without jobs. Grow up. Civil discourse is a sign of maturity notably lacking in your post.

HC, it is possible to post about an important topic like the necessity of a union and to be concerned about out of work pilots. My family made the first donation to the NJASAP-FLOPS Solidarity fund that was set up less than 24 hrs after those pilots were wrongfully terminated. I believe that some of the NJA pilots posting here also made a donation to that cause.

Unfortunately, the Options pilots have to fight for a contract against arrogant managers who lack integrity. Combating F&H FUD is part of the battle that can't be avoided. On the line, at the bargaining table and on this board it is necessary to defend the right to work under a contract. Union busters have no scruples and are paid to keep chipping away at morale. Those who stand up and fight back do so out of concern for their families and the well-being of the entire pilot group. I know for a fact that pilots posting on this board have donated thousands of dollars and countless hours of their free time (as my husband has) to 1108 so that pilots could win/achieve a fair contract during negotiations. Scope and job security are top priorities for 1108. So you are hard pressed to find pilots more concerned about their fellow crew members than those Union volunteers are. A strong union gives a pilot the best chance for a solid career and ensures fairness in the event of a furlough through rules built into a contract.

You posted to insult other pilots and those who like to stay informed, but I wonder what you personally have done to improve the situation?

 

[hawkercpt]

NJ wifee

1st Thanks for the english lesson. Your always right, I forgot.
2nd What have I done? Got 2 of the terminated pilots interviews and job offers.
3rd My point was that the post should be about the issues, not calling people scabs. I completely agree Flight Options managers are sneaky and underhanded. Thats the reason I left that place. I do wish well for all of the Options pilots who have been effected and those that remain in the aftermath.