My Rant on the STUPID & SPINELESS Flight Options Management!

[learflyer]

double post

 

[learflyer]

Does anyone (besides the posters) actually read each and every boring a$$ post in this thread line by line? You guys will do this for the rest of your careers and all of a sudden you'll have 30 years of nothing to show for it but bitterness. "The fight", "stand together", "FUD", "rising tide lifts all boats", SHEESH! No i'm not mgmt, yes I voted for the union at flops. But $hit, after several yrs of crap I'm at peace doing something else and have moved on. Just an observation. Alot of my friends including **** lost their jobs a couple weeks ago. Some of you MUST have other ideas you can do with your lives, no?

 

[netjetwife]

I'll share the info that I have to help answer LF's question. Those who are bored need not read...

Regarding my posts, my husband and I are both regularly told by pilots (who read but seldom post) that they enjoy them. (Thanks for the feedback, guys!) It sounds like they follow the posting here. I didn't ask how much they read as that is a personal choice.

LF's statement that others will only have bitterness to show for standing together and fighting back is way off-base. Things are much better at NJA now. Other frac pilots are also pleased by improvements in the industry. The Options pilots are negotiating for a badly needed contract. Their bitterness stems from management's mistreatment not their valid expectation that a rising tide would lift their boat. They've had to watch that happen over and over --twice each at NJA and CS. Didn't Flex get a raise, too? That's why they're bitter--not because they choose to fight for the industry standard. I'm glad they are. The FLOP's out of control race to the bottom has got to be stopped.

It seems LF's decision to move on from FltOps was a good one for him, but it doesn't mean that those who stayed behind could or would choose to do the same. Those who find posts "boring" can just quietly skip them. That would be a lot fairer than misapplying gloomy predictions and indirectly insulting those choosing to spend their time posting and/or reading here. As to LF's suggestion that you guys do something else with your lives career-wise, I think that's a personal decision best left to you and your family. I wish you all the best.

DL, you have my sympathy, shared disgust, and best wishes for a favorable outcome. Good Luck! NJW

 

[waka]

Does anyone (besides the posters) actually read each and every boring a$$ post in this thread line by line? You guys will do this for the rest of your careers and all of a sudden you'll have 30 years of nothing to show for it but bitterness. "The fight", "stand together", "FUD", "rising tide lifts all boats", SHEESH! No i'm not mgmt, yes I voted for the union at flops. But $hit, after several yrs of crap I'm at peace doing something else and have moved on. Just an observation. Alot of my friends including "Dimeline" lost their jobs a couple weeks ago. Some of you MUST have other ideas you can do with your lives, no?

As I told someone else....maybe it was you. Some of us choose to fight for what is right while others just lay back and take it. Sure, move on but, don't just let FLOPS management get away with anything they want. There is nothing wrong with looking to one's own future. However, that doesn't mean that you cannot participate in suing their evil asses in the mean time.

Quote for you;

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those *cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

Theodore Roosevelt

*underline added by me

 

[netjetwife]

Waka, excellent quote! Thanks for sharing it. Your words were good, too...

 

[learflyer]

As I told someone else....maybe it was you. Some of us choose to fight for what is right while others just lay back and take it. Sure, move on but, don't just let FLOPS management get away with anything they want. There is nothing wrong with looking to one's own future. However, that doesn't mean that you cannot participate in suing their evil asses in the mean time.

Quote for you;

*underline added by me

Sorry all. Next time I'll just turn the station. Flops drove me nuts. Sorry I took it out on my FI family! Should have worked out BEFORE I posted...:0

 

[netjetwife]

Now that's a nice post, LF! I particularly liked the phrase "FI family".
To me, being in an online community is the best part of posting here.
Regards,
NJW

 

[B19 Flyer]

Now that's a nice post, LF! I particularly liked the phrase "FI family".
To me, being in an online community is the best part of posting here.
Regards,
NJW

Thankfully that community has differing opinions.

I still wonder how fair it is that your husband (or any union "volunteer" for that matter) gets 100% of his benefits paid by NJ, yet only flies a partial schedule because he is conducting union business when he was hired as a flying pilot.

As you claim you are all about fairness in this community as you support the union way of life.

Please explain the fairness in that for Mr. Buffett?

It's funny how none of the union supporters will touch that one. I guess it hits too close to home, eh?

 

[cougar12]

Idiot!

 

[brokeflyer]

Thankfully that community has differing opinions.

I still wonder how fair it is that your husband (or any union "volunteer" for that matter) gets 100% of his benefits paid by NJ, yet only flies a partial schedule because he is conducting union business when he was hired as a flying pilot.

As you claim you are all about fairness in this community as you support the union way of life.

Please explain the fairness in that for Mr. Buffett?

It's funny how none of the union supporters will touch that one. I guess it hits too close to home, eh?

ill touch it....its because if it wasnt for the "union business" then managent types who couldnt cut it in the real world (like you) would $hit all over him. Then the only people who really suffer are his children.......who you don't care about.

this thread is now closed as well.....

cya

 

[netjetwife]

BF, I'll back you up. The reality is the majority of volunteers do the work at home on their days "off". Pilots serving on Union and/or joint committees fly full time unless they're needed at meetings in CMH. My husband's Union work has the complete support and respect of NJA. They value him as a full time instructor flying the line, but they also ask him to attend joint meetings and special projects they recruited him for. I think upper management at NJA knows better than B19 what they need to be successful, don't you guys? The FLOPS have been ruining morale and the business, but smart managers tap into the talent of the workforce and form a partnership.

For example, the Union Training Committee led the joint effort to redesign training, (much of it on their own time) saving NJA millions. Mr. Buffet should be very pleased with the work those pilots did for their regular salary. Mr. Santulli is. NJA would have had to pay a consultant firm a hefty fee but got UTC talent and experience for a song-- normal wages plus countless hours of personal/family time donated by volunteers to make training better. Union Volunteers also help out in areas like scheduling, uniforms and travel, to name a few, but still fly the line full time.

I've explained several times (give it up fudspinner, the dirt you're looking for isn't there) that NJA likes having a Steward on Duty in CMH and with their support the program was added to the contract. Those pilots are full time line pilots that pull SOD on a rotation basis. The SOD program is valued by all for the efficiency and team work it brings to operations.

NJA doesn't lose one sortie from a Union volunteer that they haven't agreed to. Furthermore, NJA sets up the joint project meetings and costs are shared with the Union so fudspinner is really reaching to make Union volunteers sound like freeloaders. RTS isn't complaining so who the hell is B19 to object? He's just a word-twisting FUD flinger trying to make the Union look bad so that the Sheeringa Gang and their despicable cohorts from F&H can go on acting like thugs while the Union supporters are distracted. Stupid idea! It just unites the pilotgroup even more.

TRUE PARTNERSHIP IS ALIVE AND WELL AT NJA BUT OVER AT FLIGHTOPS THE MORALE BEATINGS CONTINUE...

 

[B19 Flyer]

I think upper management at NJA knows better than B19 what they need to be successful, don't you guys?

There isn't a company in the world that wants a union on the property. Netjets management is forced to have a union shoved down their throat and has learned to live with it. If by some alignment of the stars unions were eliminated at all companies nationwide today, the whoops of joy of freedom to run the company the way they want to would last for weeks. The wasted money such as paying volunteers their benefits while they fly partial schedules would vanish overnight. The union boondoggles would be over.


TRUE PARTNERSHIP IS ALIVE AND WELL AT NJA BUT OVER AT FLIGHTOPS THE MORALE BEATINGS CONTINUE...

The "partnership" as you call it is forced and NJ is making the best of a situation that is forced on them.

Let's see how great this management/union partnership is at all the airlines, (NJ and fracs included) over the next couple of months and years as the purse-strings tighten up.

The fractional model relies heavily on scheduled airlines, and as the airlines cut back flight and increase cost, that will impact the bottom line just like fuel.

Fractionals are not insulated as much as the union folks like to think they are, there will be pain and then we'll see how great your "partnership" is then.

When the union at AA negotiated and gave your husband the opportunity to keep a position at Eagle, you bailed out and told the union and it's lousy CBA to shove it.

What's going to happen next time? Gonna bail out again when you don't agree with the union?

 

[B19 Flyer]

ill touch it....its because if it wasnt for the "union business" then managent types who couldnt cut it in the real world (like you) would $hit all over him. Then the only people who really suffer are his children.......who you don't care about.

this thread is now closed as well.....

cya

ROFL :laugh:

You really believe that...

 

[gunfyter]

How fair is it to Mr Buffett?

Let me count the ways...

A few hundred million $$$ fair in profits last year... and more to come.

If FLOPS wants profits in the future ... time to STOP disrespecting Pilots and play ball with the union.

 

[brokeflyer]

Let's see how great this management/union partnership is at all the airlines, (NJ and fracs included) over the next couple of months and years as the purse-strings tighten up.

The fractional model relies heavily on scheduled airlines, and as the airlines cut back flight and increase cost, that will impact the bottom line just like fuel.

Fractionals are not insulated as much as the union folks like to think they are, there will be pain and then we'll see how great your "partnership" is then.

When the union at AA negotiated and gave your husband the opportunity to keep a position at Eagle, you bailed out and told the union and it's lousy CBA to shove it.

What's going to happen next time? Gonna bail out again when you don't agree with the union?

that damn union.....your right.....im sure netjets would pay me 180k yr on their own.....

you need to come back to this planet.

 

[AeroBoy]

Since B19 refuses to even acknowledge, let alone answer, my question then I will fill in the blanks for him.

B19 at one time was on the NetJets advisory board. So he's not quite the objective source he claims to be. Further, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he was involved in some consulting role with Flight Options right now. Note this is merely speculation since I don't have any proof of B19 having a relationship with Flight Options, at least not yet.

B19, care for a Coca-Cola or some Texaco fuel right about now?

 

[Fozzy]

BRK bought the WHOLE company. Planes, buildings, computers, cars, and a Unionized work force. It is a cost of doing business you dolt. But it does not surprise me that a management lackey like yourself can not (refuses) to see that. That argument ends there as far as Mr. Buffett goes, he buys the companys but he does not run them. Just do some research.
Now if NJA didn't want to cover the cost of paying for Pilots to come off the line and do Union work (and a lot of company work) they had options.
Negotiate a "better" contract for themselves.
Do what FLOPS is doing.

They chose wisely in 2005 AND 2007!
Amazing how capitalism works.

Stay away from NJA we want to stay profitable! :laugh:


Hey why are you dodging AeroBoy's questions??? Maybe we all should start calling you at your office and see when the next post is coming!

 

[Publishers]

Waka -- my grandfather taught me that to build something takes longer and is much more difficult than to tear something down. Then again, that is who it is so much more rewarding.
It is never wrong to strive to do (accomplish) the deeds.
My thinking on these matters is that people like NJW see things so one dimensional when life and business are not. The situtation at FO and NJ are worlds apart and between NJ and the other fractionals universe aparts.
As much as the union did for NJ, management did more. They came up with a successful model, financed it well, negotiated solid deals with the manufacturers, put together tremendous in house and out of house suppliers and support structure, and marketed the h out of it. Doing all these things brought employment to a significant number of pilots.
Unfortunately FO has not succeeded in these areas. Who knows, maybe the lucky ones are the ones cut loose fairly or unfairly.
In another thread talking about the ones let go at Dayjet, someone said they obviously would never make it as an airline. Back in the NJ negotiations there was always talk like NJ was an airline.
The airline business absolutely sucks and the unions have certainly been no panacea for that business. There is all this talk about industry standards. Who cares about some vague standard. The only thing that counts is you are happy where you are and you feel you are compensated reasonably for what you do. If you are not, you should be moving on. If you are happy in your work life, you are probably creating something. If you are miserable with it and sharing that, you are probably tearing something down.

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

Since B19 refuses to even acknowledge, let alone answer, my question then I will fill in the blanks for him.

B19 at one time was on the NetJets advisory board. So he's not quite the objective source he claims to be. Further, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he was involved in some consulting role with Flight Options right now. Note this is merely speculation since I don't have any proof of B19 having a relationship with Flight Options, at least not yet.

B19, care for a Coca-Cola or some Texaco fuel right about now?

His silence is stunning, isnt it?:erm:

 

[netjetwife]

Waka -- my grandfather taught me that to build something takes longer and is much more difficult than to tear something down. Then again, that is why it is so much more rewarding. It is never wrong to strive to do (accomplish) the deeds. This is something NJ Union leaders and members can easily identify with. They built StrongUnion, built pilot-only Local 1108 and are currently building an independent association. Options pilot leaders and members have built their Union from scratch. Kudos to all involved!
My thinking on these matters is that people like NJW see things so one dimensional when life and business are not. Hardly! Negotiations revolve around money so there's been a lot of business discussed at my house, especially during IBB and now with NJASAP. The situtation at FO and NJ are worlds apart and between NJ and the other fractionals universe aparts. Talk about single-focus thinking.... Differences don't justify exploitation. Our country set a minimum wage to protect workers. I think pilots need to do the same for themselves. Sure, some will make more but none should be paid like unskilled labor. A professional base rate is in order to prevent huge discrepancies. As much as the union did for NJ, management did more. But they couldn't have done it alone. And it was proven that NJA is more productive when the pilots are motivated and respected. .... Doing all these things brought employment to a significant number of pilots. Who are a core component of the business model. My recognition of the partnership at NJA is a more balanced viewpoint than your constant praise for management and your soft tone for the FLOPS who are ruining FO and derailing careers. Unfortunately FO has not succeeded in these areas. Who knows, maybe the lucky ones are the ones cut loose fairly or unfairly. From posts here they don't sound like they're feeling lucky. Shocked and disgusted is more like it.

There is all this talk about industry standards. Who cares about some vague standard. The underpaid Options pilots who do the same job for less than their frac peers and know precisely how far behind they are. Your pro-management blinders must prevent you from seeing clearly what stands out starkly to the rest of us. The only thing that counts is you are happy where you are and you feel you are compensated reasonably for what you do. Those two factors don't always come together; sometimes you have to insist on fair compensation for the job you enjoy. If you are not, you should be moving on. That's the same trite advice you gave to the NJA pilots. It's a good thing they listened to their Union leaders instead of you. :erm: If you are happy in your work life, you are probably creating something. If you are miserable with it and sharing that, you are probably tearing something down. A classic example of a shoot the messenger attitude...

Fractional pilots have helped to build the fractional industry. Their skill, labor, and personal face-to-face interaction with pax has created, in significant measure, the success that is often taken for granted by managers like the FLOPS. Many pilots have watched managers come and go while they kept steadily building the business. A bad CEO can single-handedly destroy years of hard work in a short tenure. At FltOps it's very clear who is tearing down the business that the pilots invested their career in and helped to build with each safe, professional flight.

I think it's very callous and extremely insulting to post pro-management speeches on a thread for pilots who have been personally harmed by arrogant, out of control managers like Sheeringa and his cohorts. In times like this you learn who your friends are. Hang in there guys! NJW

 

[netjetwife]

His silence is stunning, isnt it?:erm:

Just as telling as his refusal to state his current position and employer (common info shared here to establish credibility) while he relentlessly stalks Union volunteers, asking questions that has nothing to do with him or the topic of the thread. b19-- a one-man band FUD...FUD...FUD...FUD..FUD..

 

[waka]

Waka -- my grandfather taught me that to build something takes longer and is much more difficult than to tear something down. Then again, that is who it is so much more rewarding.
It is never wrong to strive to do (accomplish) the deeds.
My thinking on these matters is that people like NJW see things so one dimensional when life and business are not. The situtation at FO and NJ are worlds apart and between NJ and the other fractionals universe aparts.
As much as the union did for NJ, management did more. They came up with a successful model, financed it well, negotiated solid deals with the manufacturers, put together tremendous in house and out of house suppliers and support structure, and marketed the h out of it. Doing all these things brought employment to a significant number of pilots.
Unfortunately FO has not succeeded in these areas. Who knows, maybe the lucky ones are the ones cut loose fairly or unfairly.
In another thread talking about the ones let go at Dayjet, someone said they obviously would never make it as an airline. Back in the NJ negotiations there was always talk like NJ was an airline.
The airline business absolutely sucks and the unions have certainly been no panacea for that business. There is all this talk about industry standards. Who cares about some vague standard. The only thing that counts is you are happy where you are and you feel you are compensated reasonably for what you do. If you are not, you should be moving on. If you are happy in your work life, you are probably creating something. If you are miserable with it and sharing that, you are probably tearing something down.

With all due respect, you are obviously ignorant about the history of FLOPS and RTA. In both companies, management and pilots alike were indeed building the company before the merger. I was former FLOPS so I cannot speak for RTA. When pilots signed on at FLOPS, we were given a certain amount of pay, benefits and a specific *domicile policy. The culture was such that one could turn down trips for safety and legal reasons without having to be wrung through management's systematic intimidation program. People actually listened to the pilots when we were put in a hotel in a high crime area and we would never be booked there again. Consequently, the pilots busted their balls for the company. etc etc etc. Yes, Ken Ricci has allegedly questionable business practices but, as far as I know, he has not practiced in routine and summary lies to the employees. KR knows airplanes and the business. Forward to now, pay and benefit cuts, eliminating domiciles, forced vacations, intimidation meetings for pilots that fly safely and legally, routine maximum duty with minimum rest, shoddy maintenance, being put up at Red Carpet Inn, etc. etc. etc. not to mention our "leader":laugh: Scheeringa and his predecessor Nahill couldn't tell the difference between a GIV and a CJ. It went from a culture of the OCC supporting the pilots to the pilots supporting the OCC.

The current management are the ones tearing down the company that the pilots (and other employees) have built. The current management has no accountability for their lies, hypocrisy and management through intimidation style. Although a union is not a panacea, a contract will force a level of management accountability......accountability that is long overdue.

Why don't you read the Roosevelt quote a few more times Mr. Spectator?

*after rumors of domicile policy changes with the change in management, a senior pilot double checked and asked them if he could continue with his plans to build a house in Grand Junction. they said yes. a few months later they changed it and he has to drive 4.5 hours (in good weather) to get to DEN. this is just one example

If you are not, you should be moving on. If you are happy in your work life, you are probably creating something. If you are miserable with it and sharing that, you are probably tearing something down.

Move on, be happy, build something while suing FLOPS and tearing them down......damn right!

 

[netjetwife]

Since B19 refuses to even acknowledge, let alone answer, my question then I will fill in the blanks for him.

B19 at one time was on the NetJets advisory board. We can all guess what his advice was... Good research work, Aero! So he's not quite the objective source he claims to be. True. That much has been very obvious even without the connection being known. Further, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he was involved in some consulting role with Flight Options right now. Agreed. Note this is merely speculation since I don't have any proof of B19 having a relationship with Flight Options, at least not yet....

When a poster suspiciously refuses to answer basic questions speculation is all you're left with. The fudspinner is constantly hijacking threads to ask volunteers about their Union work and then he twists their words to fit his hidden agenda. Every time posters tried to get a baseline for where B19 was coming from all they got was tap dancing. Here are some easily answered questions raised by B19's posts.

9/28/07 My interest is actually for my friends at a different fractional where I was affiliated for a short time

What fractional was that and what was your position there? Are those friends in management?

8/24/07 My original interest is actually with another fractional that I consulted for during a short period of time ....

When, who, and what exactly did they consult you about? Are you self-employed? or do work for a firm? If so, who is it?

6/29/07 Furthermore, posting on the boards is not the highlight of my day, it's just a distraction that takes me away from my real life when at the office.

Aren't you using work time for a personal reason instead of doing what you're paid to do? Or is posting on FI one of your current job duties?

 

[B19 Flyer]

When a poster suspiciously refuses to answer basic questions speculation is all you're left with.

I answer questions relevent to the industry because I have experience in the industry, which is something you don't have.

The fudspinner is constantly hijacking threads to ask volunteers about their Union work and then he twists their words to fit his hidden agenda.

First, I'm not a fudspinner, I only tell the truth which you can't seem to handle. I don't hijack threads, I have a different opinion. That different opinion isn't well liked amongst those like you that think they know it all and can't envision a balance. Did I say that you haven't worked in the industry?

Every time posters tried to get a baseline for where B19 was coming from all they got was tap dancing. Here are some easily answered questions raised by B19's posts.

No tap dancing. Honest answers. Did I mention that you don't have any business experience and have never worked in the industry?

9/28/07 My interest is actually for my friends at a different fractional where I was affiliated for a short time

What fractional was that and what was your position there? Are those friends in management?

I work in the aviation industry, which is something you've never done.

8/24/07 My original interest is actually with another fractional that I consulted for during a short period of time ....

When, who, and what exactly did they consult you about? Are you self-employed? or do work for a firm? If so, who is it?

I work in the aviation industry, which is something you've never done.

6/29/07 Furthermore, posting on the boards is not the highlight of my day, it's just a distraction that takes me away from my real life when at the office.

Aren't you using work time for a personal reason instead of doing what you're paid to do? Or is posting on FI one of your current job duties?

I work in the aviation industry, which is something you've never done.

Basic answers with basic facts.

You have opinions without basis of experience.

If I were you, I wouldn't worry about me...

You are so close to union leadership, if you were a real friend to them I'd be using my contacts to help the Flight Options pilots who have dug themselves into a hole by trusting 1108 out of the hole they are in.

Oh, that's right, you don't work in the industry and have no say in the matter.

My days of employers with unions are thankfully over. Let's see how the upcoming year goes. I'm thinking I'll be saying "I told you so" a lot, and those non-union fracs will be holding their own a lot better with a high quality of life, less internal turmoil and will be able to adjust to the rapidly changing market easier than the union ones. Less than a year of profits doesn't make a successful CBA at NJ. Only time can judge that.

 

[netjetwife]

TAP TAP TAP TAP TAP TAP TAP TAP

FUD...FUD...and more FUD. No surprise there.

The typical chaff was used to disguise the reality that questions weren't answered...yet again.

 

[fischman]

B19

...likes to say the same things over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

B19,

Here is a simple question.

Who EXACTLY do you work for?

If you answer with ANYTHING other than a SPECIFIC company I say you are a COWARD.




Here is an example:

Who EXACTLY do I work for? NetJets Aviation.

Now you try.

Who EXACTLY do you work for?

 

[netjetwife]

Since you appreciate puns....

Good luck getting a straight answer, Fisch. It's gonna be more difficult than swimming upstream against a strong current...

In spite of the humorous analogy, though, I'm serious. Don't hold your breath waiting for an answer. You'll turn into a puffer fisch...

 

[B19 Flyer]

...likes to say the same things over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

B19,

Here is a simple question.

Who EXACTLY do you work for?

If you answer with ANYTHING other than a SPECIFIC company I say you are a COWARD.




Here is an example:

Who EXACTLY do I work for? NetJets Aviation.

Now you try.

Who EXACTLY do you work for?

Be careful what you ask for.

 

[Semore Butts]

B19 for Petes sake

"Be careful what you ask for"

Stop it please your frightnening me!!!!

I don't think you divulging your actual job is gonna intimidate, frighten, or impress anyone.

Geez man, you are pitiful.

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA..................

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAA..............

No Wait! HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA................

I cant F-ing stand it!!!!!!!!

Mr. B-19 sir, you really have to get out of aviation! Your future in comedy is calling you!

"Be careful what you ask for".....


BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA

I think I just "Sharted"!

Oh man, I gotta get another beer man!!!!!!!!!

You Sir (B-19), are truly a "Bafoon"!

 

[Fozzy]

Since B19 refuses to even acknowledge, let alone answer, my question then I will fill in the blanks for him.

B19 at one time was on the NetJets advisory board. So he's not quite the objective source he claims to be. Further, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he was involved in some consulting role with Flight Options right now. Note this is merely speculation since I don't have any proof of B19 having a relationship with Flight Options, at least not yet.

B19, care for a Coca-Cola or some Texaco fuel right about now?

Answer the question! Maybe we should just post your direct line and see if that gets your attention. :laugh: