Multi time building post

[ePilot22]

agpilot34,

still get to actually "fly" for a living.

I can't argue with that! Airline "flying" has become "systems management".

I dont fly ag anymore, I fly pipeline patrol now, and have for several years, so I have a good idea of what these guys down in Houston do.

And how much would your boss have paid you if I was willing to PAY to do YOUR job?


eP.

 

[agpilot34]

Dont know, but you would be suprised at how many rookie ag pilots offer to pay their own insurance, fly for a reduced rate, etc. just to try and get a foot in the door. It's a very hard profession to get started in. There's a big difference in that, and what you guys are talking about. You would never see a PFT program for ag flying. Any pilot can go jump in a twin with another pilot and go fly. Very few could go out and climb in a loaded Air Tractor solo and go fly a field without killing themselves. Couple that with the fact that a new turbine powered ag aircraft goes for a minimum of 1 million, and you wont find many operators that will put a guy in the cockpit without 1000 hrs ag time at least. Epilot, like I said, I understand what you're saying, I just dont agree with it.

 

[Flystr8]

How can

 

[gfvalvo]

Epilot, like I said, I understand what you're saying, I just dont agree with it.

And that's the simple concept that those "screaming" the loudest about this topic can't fathom. It's their way or no way.

 

[Flystr8]

While I think you are totally out to lunch on this issue, I will agree with you on the above statement. What better way to lower the cost of your company's flight department by actually duping some stupid chode into PAYING to work for you! Fargin amazing.

Well, I'm off to find someone to pay me to have the opportunity to balance my checkbook with the hopes of being an accountant some day...............

I find it very humorous that you "find me out to lunch on this issue" yet you agree with me. Isn't that what we call an oxymoron?? Im not out to lunch. Its the truth and it makes perfect sense.

 

[ePilot22]

I have absolutely no aspirations to fly for a living.

Nuf' said. Thanks for the input!

How can

Did you go out to lunch? Or do you consider this a complete thought?

Im not out to lunch. Its the truth and it makes perfect sense.

Yeah, keep telling yourself that! Maybe we'll believe it too.

Epilot, like I said, I understand what you're saying, I just dont agree with it.

Ok, I can agree to disagree. :beer:

eP.

 

[Lilah]

Lets break this down.

Company A needs some type of aircraft service which they contract to Company B for a stated price. Company B KNOWING that there are pilots out there that will do anything not to have to instruct, network or get "LUCKY" and are willing to PAY to fly their airplanes. So, Company B charges the pilots a rate to fly the aircraft and now makes money providing the aircraft services to Company A as well as having pilots PAY for the opportunity to provide the skill to fly the aircraft. Sound like good business for Company B! Maybe they should make the A&Ps pay to work on the aircraft? What happened to Company C because they were undercut by Company B and now pilots with knowledge and skill are sold short because you wanted "cheap multi time"?:erm:

No hard feelings, the intent of my postings are NOT to be hostile, but to convey my FEELINGS, THOUGHTS and OPINIONS.:beer:

epilot22,

You have done a fairly good job at describing the way a free market economy works! The value of the product Company C produces has decreased due to the increased efficiency of Company B. It's a tough pill to swallow, but hard work and investment of time/money/capital etc. is no assurance of success, as a pilot or in the business world. It's what makes America great, and the primary reason we're not speaking Russian now.

I don't like it when my employer's market is infringed on by Mesa. My solution? We make everybody's pay, from rampers to management proportional to the success of the company. That way we assure our product value and quality (a Mesa weakness) are worth, and people are willing to pay, what we negotiate.

eP, when you are flying in a crew enviroment you'll learn to become sensitive to bringing up issues of race/religion/politics/unions/ethics etc. While they can be an interesting and productive exchange of ideas, like what we do here, not everyone can separate these issues from working together in a cockpit for a month.

My free market views being what they are, I do not believe in unchecked capitalism. A company, left to it's own, will revert to a monopoly, which is not for the better good of the consumer, or employee.

I hope we haven't gotten to far away from discussing multi time .

Respectfully,

Lilah

 

[ePilot22]

Speechless....

You have done a fairly good job at describing the way a free market economy works! The value of the product Company C produces has decreased due to the increased efficiency of Company B. It's a tough pill to swallow, but hard work and investment of time/money/capital etc. is no assurance of success, as a pilot or in the business world. It's what makes America great, and the primary reason we're not speaking Russian now.

Yeah, it's a tough pill to swallow trying to understand why someone would be willing to PAY TO WORK!

I don't even know what to say.................sad, very sad!

Buy your jobs, work for GO.Jet, cross the picket line whatever it takes to build that time to get that right seat jet job, I guess!

I hope all your expections are satisfied, all that effort...nevermind, no effort was put forth.

Keep cheating and shortcutting the industry and make your excuses. But please don't complain that you don't make good money, QOL is $hit, blah, blah, blah....you earned it, in fact, you PAID for it! Remember that "cheap multi time"?

I'm a low timer, yep, those times under my name are accurate. Don't you think I want 100 hours of multi time tomorrow? I've been offered multi and even turbine time with people flying XC trips in their planes for their businesses. All they ask is that I PAY for fuel! NOPE! NO WAY! NO PFT, PFW or PFF. If they're going there anyway and going to have to pay for their own fuel then why should I pay for it? To build time? I'll work (put forth EFFORT) and if you CAN'T, WON'T understand that or agree, so be it. I'm sorry for YOUR lack of value(s).

If anyone has a problem with this or any form of paying for training, work or even fuel post it in the CARGO, REGIONAL or MAJOR forum and defend it there! I bet you won't!!! Come on, post a thread "I'm going to build my multi time by PFT" or "PFT it's for me!"

Do me one favor though, ask yourself if you'd still be willing to PAY when you have 2000, 3000 or more hours? My guess is a definite NO! So why then at 500 or 1000 hours?

eP.

 

[Lilah]

Keep cheating and shortcutting the industry and make your excuses. But please don't complain that you don't make good money, QOL is $hit, blah, blah, blah....you earned it, in fact, you PAID for it! Remember that "cheap multi time"?

Do me one favor though, ask yourself if you'd still be willing to PAY when you have 2000, 3000 or more hours? My guess is a definite NO! So why then at 500 or 1000 hours?

eP.

ePilot,

My arguement still stands. In the simplist form, supply exceeds demand. People who go to schools like the one in Oklahoma are lead to believe it's a noble career, well paid and well respected. That is not true. It is one that is shrinking in pay at most carriers. You CAN'T justify the cost of training for the return in expected pay.

No, why should a person with 3000 hours pay? They don't need the time, you know that. Why would a person with 900 hours pay? They do need the time. Would my choice have been better if I had pumped gas to pay for the time in a rental?

We ALL pay to work. We pay with our time and the training we do to get the job in the first place, you included. If your flight school needed MEIs so bad, why didn't they pay to train you?

Respectfully,

Lilah

 

[ePilot22]

Wrong part of the board!

First. Did you go to Airman? If you DIDN'T then stop TELLING me what they promised. If you DID read on...

Second. I went to Airman only for the CFI and CFII, I already had my delusions of this industry before going. They didn't promise me anything other than a CFI and CFII. I paid for a CFI and CFII, not any kind of dream or anything else. It cost $5,000. Actually $4,995. Notice the .

Third. I'm not new to flying. I've been in the game for a MORE than four years. I NEVER expected to make a fortune. If I WANTED money, I'd be a doctor, lawyer or a theif! I'm NOT! I WANT TO FLY! It's that simple.

Fourth. I'm a BUSINESS major NOT AVIATION, I UNDERSTAND how our system works, again, thanks though.

Fifth. And most important:

If anyone has a problem with this or any form of paying for training, work or even fuel post it in the CARGO, REGIONAL or MAJOR forum and defend it there! I bet you won't!!! Come on, post a thread "I'm going to build my multi time by PFT" or "PFT it's for me!"

This last quote is all I'm going to post in here any more! Quote after quote.

I'm done with this discussion. Again notice the .

eP.