More planes for ExpressJet

[dojetdriver]

I also don't know why a L-XJT pilot would be advocating for losing vacation low. Their vacation drop and add pay system is every bit as lucrative and just as ripe for trimming in the JCBA.

I'm NOT advocating getting rid of vacation low. Don't be a tool and read something into my post that ISN'T there. But it's been made TERRIBLY clear, management doesn't like it and wants it gone.

However, there's more than a few L-ASA guys that feel the need to be "cost competitive". So they need to "get on board", because Jerry "doesn't play games".

As far as the rest of your post, ERJ vacation as it applies to time off and monthly grnty is night and day different compared to the way you guys used to do it. ERJ pilots are protected to min grty, and sometimes more. That's ALL work rule stuff and had ZERO to do with PBS.

 

[Clutch]

I wonder how popular it'll be if, more like when vacation low gets removed?

Why do you just assume that it will be removed?

 

[dojetdriver]

Why do you just assume that it will be removed?

See above, keep up.

Jerry doesn't play games, stop being so militant.

 

[Clutch]

See above, keep up.

Jerry doesn't play games, stop being so militant.

Losing vacation low would be a concession. We don't do concessions, pal. That's your thing

 

[dojetdriver]

Losing vacation low would be a concession. We don't do concessions, pal. That's your thing

I voted NO, BOTH times.

Don't get your feelings hurt because sarcasm is a foreign concept.

Don't vote for a crappy contract. Even though that is "your thing".

 

[sweptback]

As far as the rest of your post, ERJ vacation as it applies to time off and monthly grnty is night and day different compared to the way you guys used to do it. ERJ pilots are protected to min grty, and sometimes more. That's ALL work rule stuff and had ZERO to do with PBS.

Sure, but when I say it was a result of PBS, it means that it came with the PBS LOA. The MEC's theory when PBS was adopted was that if we could maintain the same QOL as line bidding, and split the savings (roughly) with the company, then it would be a benefit for the company and an improvement for the pilot group. I suspect that regardless of how the company postures it during negotiations, they benefit greatly from having PBS on the property. The fact that the pilots haven't had a decrease in QOL (and in most cases, ended up with an increase of QOL) is a testament to the LOA the MEC put together.

 

[Nevets]

Sure, but when I say it was a result of PBS, it means that it came with the PBS LOA. The MEC's theory when PBS was adopted was that if we could maintain the same QOL as line bidding, and split the savings (roughly) with the company, then it would be a benefit for the company and an improvement for the pilot group. I suspect that regardless of how the company postures it during negotiations, they benefit greatly from having PBS on the property. The fact that the pilots haven't had a decrease in QOL (and in most cases, ended up with an increase of QOL) is a testament to the LOA the MEC put together.

Or maybe just a fluke? Anyway, what is meant by vacation low going away (what the company wants), is the soft time associated with it, regardless of if it straddles two months. The company cares only about getting rid of soft time. Vacation low, as it exists right now, is probably one of the biggest soft time accumulators. So it is probably inaccurate to say that they want vacation low gone and more accurate that they want soft time gone. Vacation low is just the biggest culprit of soft time. I've read here that your MEC has already proposed to get rid of the soft time generated by it in order to assuage the company into keeping flight line instead of smartpref.

 

[wms]

Soft time for vacation is in two different forms in our contract. Virtual credit, which is a credit of 4 hours per vacation day for bidding only, not pay; and vacation low, which allows us to build to 65 hours of credit in a vacation month and still get paid 75 hours. It's complex to explain but bottom line is you have to bid for 37 hours worth of trips in a vacation month. Even the most junior person can hold four day trips over a weekend at each end of the month and maximize vacation.

Under the old contract we had minimum monthly guarantee, which was a prorated guarantee when you bid below 75 hours. For example I maximized vacation to 18 days off one month and got paid 55 hours under mmg. This is an unacceptable provision in a contract. This is also something foreign to pilots that have not experienced it, and a shock to us when we saw it in action. The lxjt pilots will have to be very wary of this in any TA because the company wants to bring Mmg back in a big way.

 

[Nevets]

Soft time for vacation is in two different forms in our contract. Virtual credit, which is a credit of 4 hours per vacation day for bidding only, not pay; and vacation low, which allows us to build to 65 hours of credit in a vacation month and still get paid 75 hours. It's complex to explain but bottom line is you have to bid for 37 hours worth of trips in a vacation month. Even the most junior person can hold four day trips over a weekend at each end of the month and maximize vacation.

Under the old contract we had minimum monthly guarantee, which was a prorated guarantee when you bid below 75 hours. For example I maximized vacation to 18 days off one month and got paid 55 hours under mmg. This is an unacceptable provision in a contract. This is also something foreign to pilots that have not experienced it, and a shock to us when we saw it in action. The lxjt pilots will have to be very wary of this in any TA because the company wants to bring Mmg back in a big way.

Yeah, I understand that. The soft time is the 38 hours of pay for NOT flying on a vacation month. Of course some of that will always be part of pay for vacation days (whether its 2, 4, or 5 hours of pay per day) but regardless, its something the company wants to minimize.

 

[screamingpax]

Will someone please explain something to me. I understand that with this "globalized" system, it can pull from more senior people to award to junior people. If I want to fly a 100 hour month and I have a schedule completed at that point, when it gets to someone junior to me, it can pull something from my schedule to complete theirs? Is this correct? Also, lets say 100 pilots are bidding. As you have stated the company decides the number of reserves. Let's say in this case 10. So 90 pilots WILL have lines. What if it gets to number 80 and doesn't have any more trips because many people senior to number 80 are bidding high value lines. It will go through the assigned lines and continue to remove trips from other people to complete those 10 lines? I don't see how the company can decide on the number of lines when they don't know how pilots will bid for the month. Therefore, if the company's estimate could be way off resulting in a lot of "globalization". Or will they decide that everyone will get an average line value to determine this?

One last question. Say it gets to the end and has to globalize. How does it work? Does it go from the most junior lineholder to the most senior, or does it start from the top down. And do you have anyway of preventing certain trips from being removed? I could see where some really junior people could end up with great trips and everyone in the middle is screwed. And how will this globalized solution work with "live" bidding. Will you know it while you are bidding, or will it be a surprise?