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Moral sinking at FLOPS

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Then per B19's desire, I hereby request that all who respond to B19's lies, address him as Bob19.

We might as well give the man what makes him happy, especially if it costs us nothing.

Call it a Gift for the Holiday Season.

Freedom is Not Free

I fail to see where any of my "opinions" are lies, but whatever floats your boat go ahead and do it.

I'm the one with a stable job, you are the one begging your union to make good on the promises they made three years ago. :D
 
Your job is not stable. You are in aviation. No one's job is stable in this industry.
 
Stable Job?

I fail to see where any of my "opinions" are lies, but whatever floats your boat go ahead and do it.

I'm the one with a stable job, you are the one begging your union to make good on the promises they made three years ago. :D

I guess you better hope Unions continue to thrive and grow in this Country if you want to keep your stable "Job."

But if being a Union Buster is what it takes to have stability, I'll take the unstable world of Professional Piloting (or any other honorable profession) over your "Profession" any day of the week.

Freedom is Not Free
 
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Well said, Freedom. Those who stand up for their rights can look themselves in the mirror; they make their families proud; and they gain the respect of their industry peers. The Options pilots post realistic, relevant updates on the situation at FO while fudspinners wind up on ignore lists. That pretty much sums it up.
 
Your job is not stable. You are in aviation. No one's job is stable in this industry.

On the contrary, my job is stable. There aren't any unions in it. The company can adjust to meet the needs of the industry as it changes without the intervention of unions.

Something that you don't seem to understand.. a CBA affects more than just payroll and work rules. When there is a CBA, every business decision is affected even if there are no changes to how the represented group is paid. Business decisions are slowed down and the company can't react quickly because union leadership isn't capable of reacting as quick as company leadership and they feel a need to have their hands in everything (scope clauses, aircraft types, etc.)

Yeah... it's stable and there is no stress as a result. Life couldn't be better. I don't have to worry about my lifestyle being affect because a union has a negative impact on how business is done.
 
Well said, Freedom. Those who stand up for their rights can look themselves in the mirror; they make their families proud; and they gain the respect of their industry peers. The Options pilots post realistic, relevant updates on the situation at FO while fudspinners wind up on ignore lists. That pretty much sums it up.

Those that can stand up and look themselves in the mirror speak for themselves instead of having a union speak for them.

They don't hide from reality by placing their fingers in their ears like a 4 year old and ignoring the factual opinions of others.
 
Those that have stood up for themselves at Flight Options...

Those that can stand up and look themselves in the mirror speak for themselves instead of having a union speak for them.

They don't hide from reality by placing their fingers in their ears like a 4 year old and ignoring the factual opinions of others.

Have often been handed their head, and showed the door. Often for less than justifiable reasons. But since they were "At Will" employees, they were SOL.

Many of these gentlemen have friends at Options that have seen this happen. They have spread the word that working unprotected under the likes of these Predators is unwise.

Some have left as you have suggested. Others have decided not to repeat the mistakes of the past of standing up individually, which cost their friends their jobs.

Instead, they have decided to fight for a Contract to protect them, and make sure they are treated fairly and impartially during what remains of their career at Flight Options.

You yourself have stated Bob19 that the definition of insanity is repeating the same mistakes over and over, expecting a different result.

Many without the stomach for the fight simply went elsewhere to a Union shop. But how do you think that Union Contract was obtained originally on xyz's property?

It was fought for by Brave Men who had within them the integrity to stand up for what was right, putting themselves in harms way in the process.

I Salute ALL the Pilots of Flight Options currently engaged in this process to obtain a First Contract. It is not an easy task, and Management will fight you every inch of the way. But its been done before, and when the battle is over, the benefits will be great for the Pilots of Flight Options.

Good Luck Gentlemen.


Freedom is Not Free
 
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On the contrary, my job is stable. There aren't any unions in it. The company can adjust to meet the needs of the industry as it changes without the intervention of unions.
Really? Like JetBlue? XOJet? Are their jobs stable? No unions there...


The only stable job in aviation is being Santa Claus and flying in a magical sleigh. OH wait... I guess there are no stable jobs in aviation. To say otherwise is fooling yourself.


NetJets is one of the mose stable places in America to have a flying job RIGHT NOW. We have unions. What does that tell you? THAT YOUR LOGIC IS FLAWED. Mr. Spock is laughing at you!
 
Really? Like JetBlue? XOJet? Are their jobs stable? No unions there...


The only stable job in aviation is being Santa Claus and flying in a magical sleigh. OH wait... I guess there are no stable jobs in aviation. To say otherwise is fooling yourself.


NetJets is one of the mose stable places in America to have a flying job RIGHT NOW. We have unions. What does that tell you? THAT YOUR LOGIC IS FLAWED. Mr. Spock is laughing at you!

You need to look at "big picture" fischman.. you are talking about "flying jobs". I'm talking about company stability.

Which companies have the best chance of survival during tough times, those that can adjust to the market or those that are hamstrung by "industry leading" contracts?

When a union is involved and cuts happen, they are deeper and a lot wider than those of non-unionized companies or work groups. Non union companies can offer packages and pull down employee payroll through volunteer methods rather than by seniority. Vendors like insurance companies and health benefits can be changed and modified to save money and give the same coverage without the intervention unions always make.

Yeah, things are so much better with unions.

Big picture stuff... pilots like you have a hard time doing that.
 

Non union companies can offer packages and pull down employee payroll through volunteer methods rather than by seniority.

You never seem to mention management pulling down their salary. You also never mention executive contracts and how those affect a company. I guess we are not worthy of having a contract, only high paid executives.
 
B, once the Options pilots get their contract and you get let go, do you think you'll be able to find another union busting job?
 
You need to look at "big picture" fischman.. you are talking about "flying jobs". I'm talking about company stability.

Which companies have the best chance of survival during tough times, those that can adjust to the market or those that are hamstrung by "industry leading" contracts?

When a union is involved and cuts happen, they are deeper and a lot wider than those of non-unionized companies or work groups. Non union companies can offer packages and pull down employee payroll through volunteer methods rather than by seniority. Vendors like insurance companies and health benefits can be changed and modified to save money and give the same coverage without the intervention unions always make.

Yeah, things are so much better with unions.

Big picture stuff... pilots like you have a hard time doing that.
I am not referring to flying jobs. I am referring to companies in aviation (which include flight operations). I am referring to big picture.

Here's another big picture... You are wrong. You are ignorant in the subjects in which you write. You don't know the industry as well as you think you do.
 
Vision must be bad....

Really? Like JetBlue? XOJet? Are their jobs stable? No unions there...


The only stable job in aviation is being Santa Claus and flying in a magical sleigh. OH wait... I guess there are no stable jobs in aviation. To say otherwise is fooling yourself.


NetJets is one of the mose stable places in America to have a flying job RIGHT NOW. We have unions. What does that tell you? THAT YOUR LOGIC IS FLAWED. Mr. Spock is laughing at you!

You weren't talking about flying jobs? I guess I need to go back and get the lasik redone.

Perhaps it's because I didn't use spell check on it??
 
Ah..B-19

my old adversary. How you been? I've been away for a while but it looks like you're still "spreadin' the love!"

I've read that you claim that you are in a management position at a 121 internional carrier. The fact that you are management is why you enjoy the excellent salary and benefits. How much do the pilots at this alleged workplace make?

You still seem to be reluctant to provide your readers with any credibal credibility. These forums are replete with low-timers and non-pilots posing as aviators and throwing their opinions around. My friend, no one is going to take you seriously unless you cowboy up and prove that you are indeed who you say you are; until that happens, everyone is going to see you as simply flame-bait.

To repeat myself for the um-teenth time: Most, if not all, the pilots at Flight Options were against having a union on the property--initially. We were a pretty conservative bunch, loyal and dedicated to the task at hand of growing our modest little carrier into a viable and dynamic player in the frac industry.

Mike Sheeringa changed all that. Sheeringa and his ward, Sanjay Whatever, did more damage to that company in 2 years and reversed the growth and capabilities that had been achieved in the previous 5. Little man with a lot of power. They sold airplanes and called it 'profit.' They drove away customers by the hundreds and called it 'growth.' They viewed their employees as a source of income. They used other-peoples-airplanes for personal use. Quarter after quarter, they reduced benefits and salaries and viscerated quality of life with a vengence. They literally tripled the amount of VPs and 2nd-floor executives over a 9-month period, all sporting 6-figure salaries, while crying poor to the pilot group when asked simply for a safe hotel to sleep in. You've argued that a non-union company can grow, while this non-union company was dieing a sickening death at the hands of an incompetent that knew nothing about general aviation.

Something had to be done. The pilots, even the anti-union pilots, chose to get some help.

You said a long time ago, after I went into great detail about the danger men like Sheeringa pose to our industry, that "management can be changed overnight." I asked you then: how does a pilot group affect such an 'overnight' change without the aid of organization? You never responded.

A union happened at Flight Options because there was no other way to stop a whack-job from doing what he was doing. He has since been sh**canned by the Board, during a rare moment of clarity. Sure, contracts can hamstring a company when an economic tidal-wave hits, but in the case of Flight Options, at the rate Sheeringa was going, there wasnt going to be much of a company to save had something not been done. Sheeringa is solely responsible for a union coming to Flight Options.

Pilots with 3000 hours of international PIC time are a rare group of individuals. Your alleged company must treat your pilots quite well. What would happen at your company if they began to hurt pilots and their families like Sheeringa did at Options? If your pilots were to 'quit and go somewhere else if they don't like it' wouldn't you guys be hard pressed to replace them with such high minimums? Options lost owners and pilots at a grossly astounding rate, so much so they had to reduce their minumums in order to get guys off the street. Once in the door, many of these same pilots quit before the end of indoc. Options had become the laughing stock of the industry in 2 short years. How would you have saved Flight Options?

Unions might not be the cure-all, but a union at Flight Options was an unfortunate necessity. How long has it been since you were a working pilot? Things have changed over the last 6 years, it's not the job it was when you were flying.

One last question that I doubt you will answer: why do you not post in the airline forums? Why bother yourself with this fractional forum? I know you are supposed to have had a bad experience with a unionized carrier, thus your hatred for unions. Shouldn't you be spending your time more wisely trying to get your message across in the airline forums? It wasn't a fractional company that burned you, nor was it a fractional's union that burned you. Why not take the fight to your true adversaries instead of hanging out in this bar? Your words need to be heard by the folks flying for SWA, AA, NWA, CA, and all your other 121 brothers. You're wasting your breath over here, brother.
 
I am a former FLOPS and RTA pilot, Chingaso you are dead on correct. The pilots and support folks are who kept FLOPS going while management incompetence was having it's affect.
 

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