Moodys revises Jetblue debt to Negative

[General Lee]

OMG! A five year interview, no way! how could I have been so blind? and all the payments on the Airbus fleet are due by Friday! Please....

Yet, younever mention ANYTHING about the stupid transcon turns idea, or the E190 rates below some Regional rates. Interesting..........


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[elag777]

Yet, younever mention ANYTHING about the stupid transcon turns idea, or the E190 rates below some Regional rates. Interesting..........


Bye Bye--General Lee

What's interesting is that your statements are mostly based on "hear say" not fact. The trans con "stupid" (your word) idea is a study, nothing more at this point.AMP (Alertness Management Program)
190 rates are skewed as they don't reflect average line credit nor premium pay. There are many variables not being considered.

However I respect your opinions.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Just a small correction: APA turned down the Industry Leading contract offered in 2000-2001 because it included "baseball-style arbitration". That's a "winner-take-all" proposition.

There isn't an hourly rate high enough to entice me to agree to give THAT to AMR.TC

Is that what hurt Alaska with their latest "contract"? The arbitrator beat them up pretty bad.

 

[AA717driver]

FlyBoeing--There have always been suspect arbitrators--no question about that. AND, the Alaska decision had the effect of "winner-take-all". But to codify that concept in the CBA was too much.

Good luck to the Alaska guys!TC

 

[michael707767]

Second, GIVE ME A BREAK ABOUT HOW EASY IT WOULD BE TO FLY TRANSCON TURNS. YOU SOUND STUPID. Nobody is strong enough or alert enough to BE AS ALERT AS YOU SHOULD BE when returning to JFK after a LGB turn.

with all due respect, and not saying I agree with transcon turns, but which is worse? A trip that goes JFK-SFO-JFK with say 10 block hours on a 12 hour duty day or a trip that goes ATL-JAX-ATL-DFW-ATL-MSY for say 7.5 hours block in the same 12 hour duty day? Personally, I think I would be more alert after the two leg transcon than at the end of the 5 and 6 leg days I used to fly on the 88.

I think fatigue from flying is cumulative. And over a long period, I think flying hours build up fatigue, partially due to the time in an airplane and partially due to the duty periods associated with getting those hours. I agree with and fully support 30n7 and 100 in a month. But frankly within a 24 hour period I think duty day is much more of a factor than block hours. And the current FAA max duty day is way, way, too long.

 

[FlickerFade]

with all due respect, and not saying I agree with transcon turns, but which is worse? A trip that goes JFK-SFO-JFK with say 10 block hours on a 12 hour duty day or a trip that goes ATL-JAX-ATL-DFW-ATL-MSY for say 7.5 hours block in the same 12 hour duty day? Personally, I think I would be more alert after the two leg transcon than at the end of the 5 and 6 leg days I used to fly on the 88.

Very well said!

I might add, why is it ok to do a comparable turn in a DC-10? Those 5+ leg days with 10+ hours on duty are way more taxing.

 

[General Lee]

with all due respect, and not saying I agree with transcon turns, but which is worse? A trip that goes JFK-SFO-JFK with say 10 block hours on a 12 hour duty day or a trip that goes ATL-JAX-ATL-DFW-ATL-MSY for say 7.5 hours block in the same 12 hour duty day? Personally, I think I would be more alert after the two leg transcon than at the end of the 5 and 6 leg days I used to fly on the 88.

I think fatigue from flying is cumulative. And over a long period, I think flying hours build up fatigue, partially due to the time in an airplane and partially due to the duty periods associated with getting those hours. I agree with and fully support 30n7 and 100 in a month. But frankly within a 24 hour period I think duty day is much more of a factor than block hours. And the current FAA max duty day is way, way, too long.

So, lets go ahead and have only two pilots going to Europe too from ATL and JFK. Where does it stop? It will stop when we crash a plane. Maybe a 24 hour reserve call would be good too? NO more beer.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[elag777]

So, lets go ahead and have only two pilots going to Europe too from ATL and JFK. Where does it stop? It will stop when we crash a plane. Maybe a 24 hour reserve call would be good too? NO more beer.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Fear of the unknown or I should say not understood is your only arguement here. I see that it may be due to the fact that you like others feel it would be abused. The point is you know nothing about the study, and should reserve comments for later.
Someone once said:
"It is far better to remain silent and be thought an idiot, than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt!" How true GL....

 

[IB6 UB9]

with all due respect, and not saying I agree with transcon turns, but which is worse? A trip that goes JFK-SFO-JFK with say 10 block hours on a 12 hour duty day or a trip that goes ATL-JAX-ATL-DFW-ATL-MSY for say 7.5 hours block in the same 12 hour duty day? Personally, I think I would be more alert after the two leg transcon than at the end of the 5 and 6 leg days I used to fly on the 88.

I think fatigue from flying is cumulative. And over a long period, I think flying hours build up fatigue, partially due to the time in an airplane and partially due to the duty periods associated with getting those hours. I agree with and fully support 30n7 and 100 in a month. But frankly within a 24 hour period I think duty day is much more of a factor than block hours. And the current FAA max duty day is way, way, too long.

Excellent point. The General thinks this is a good point too, he just can't say it because it is B6's idea. There would be a different tune whistled if ALPA proposed this.

 

[dlredline]

Fear of the unknown or I should say not understood is your only arguement here. I see that it may be due to the fact that you like others feel it would be abused. The point is you know nothing about the study, and should reserve comments for later.
Someone once said:
"It is far better to remain silent and be thought an idiot, than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt!" How true GL....

Elag777,

Excellent post, and advice several on this board would be well served to take. And for accuracy the quote is below:


Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. Abraham Lincoln
16th president of US (1809 - 1865)

 

[General Lee]

Hey Jetblue dudes,


I have an opinion, and you can't silence me. Flying transcon turns, especially back into bad weather in NYC, will be a safety hazard. You all may be super-human, but most are not. And, your 100 seat pay scale is very low for a profitable airline. Tell me I am wrong there too. You can't.

Elag777,

Instead of placing quotes, why don't you make some of your own? Tell me how safe transcon turns will be with two pilots, and then tell me your opinion about those new E190 rates that you probably will never have to fly under. Go ahead Abraham. Wait, maybe you will finally give me an answer in four score and.....
And, I know nothing about the study? I do long 8 hour days, often with two legs, and I get tired after one of them, especially with wx delays. I guess you guys are all super human, and will never feel the effects of jet lag or fatigue. Hey, you might be able to marry your sister and not have a mentally deformed kid also. So, go do it, and do a study afterwards. I can't wait to see the result.Your newly formed daughter will have a mustache and three arms. Cool. But hey, you did a study on it.....


Red,

Blindly following your cohorts also can make a person look like an idiot. Changing the rules, that were set up for safety reasons, for efficiecy gains primarily for your company, is idiotic as well. And, I do hope your group eventually tries to "ask" for a raise on those rates on the E190. If you were under the threat of Chap 11, I could understand. To say that you could go to Chap 11 if you asked for more, is shortsighted. You determine your worth by what you ask for. If it is too much, then you can renegotiate with proof.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Diesel-9]

Well said General. And their work rules. Have flown a couple trips with former JetBlue F/O's that are back after furlough. Their pay/work rules are an insult and how they defend them even worse. Won't go into other things he said about experiences on the JFK west coast turns and how glad he was to get out after comparing operations.

 

[dlredline]

...Blindly following your cohorts also can make a person look like an idiot. Changing the rules, that were set up for safety reasons, for efficiecy gains primarily for your company, is idiotic as well. And, I do hope your group eventually tries to "ask" for a raise on those rates on the E190. If you were under the threat of Chap 11, I could understand. To say that you could go to Chap 11 if you asked for more, is shortsighted. You determine your worth by what you ask for. If it is too much, then you can renegotiate with proof.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Nothing "blind" with my vision here, having spent over 25 years in this industry which includes several Ch. 11's and 2 furloughs. I'm just willing to wait to see the hard data before making an emotional decision one way or the other.

GL, I'm convinced you're a smart guy and dedicated individual to your own opinions, and I enjoy reading them. However, constantly calling others "idiots" and "idiotic" for their opinions diminishes your argument, and I think is beneath you. This discussion is valid without the mud-drag. Raise the bar and others will follow (my quote, not Abe's).

Best to ya,

Red

 

[Flying Freddie]

Yet, younever mention ANYTHING about the stupid transcon turns idea, or the E190 rates below some Regional rates. Interesting..........


Bye Bye--General Lee

Or that the Delta pay rates may be lower than the E190 after the October 16th bankruptcy.....................

 

[General Lee]

Or that the Delta pay rates may be lower than the E190 after the October 16th bankruptcy.....................

Oooo, you got me. That sure is hilarious. Desperation really makes some people, like Flying Freddie, say things that make him look like an idiot. We cannot change what a judge does. But, Flying Freddie and his pals might be able to raise a stink, but CANNOT because they have no way to. Our company is doing poorly, and most of that is not our fault. Your company is doing well, but they LOWBALL YOU. They just set the bar for the 100 seater, and that inturn affects everyone else with less than 100 seats. Dave Neeleman and his cronies are jumping up and down (Dave more than others) and high fiving eachother. They GAVE you a rate and YOU TOOK IT BECAUSE YOU HAD TO. We could have the same problem, but from a JUDGE. Totally different financial pictures, but yours is ALL YOUR FAULT. Blue Kool-aid is good. And, I just don't think our rates will be lower than yours---highly doubtful. Maybe Comair and ASA(owned by Delta) will get cuts and actually get lower than yours.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[B6Guy]

Typical 'General'

General, you often repeat or create anti-[insert airline name] drivel with the intention of baiting readers into responding. Often over and over again like a little kid who learned a new word.

5-year this, 12 year rates, stupid idiotic transcon turns, no representation etc, etc. Do you REALLY believe that those 12 year rates will actually be the same in 12 years?? Get real.

THEN when someone responds to your bait, you fall back and claim you are 'just joking' and that the respondant 'obviously' has no sense of humor. This is your game you play over and over again on this forum. You use this game to repeat over an over again the false BS and bait-phrases you like to see in print associated with your name. But then of course you can write numerous replies defending your baited post or attacking the respondants. And by doing so run up your total post count.

Then if someone agrees with your BS then you respond several times more commending the people who agree with your bait. All in the name to be the high-poster on this forum. What a goal, to have the worst case of keyboard diarhea on this forum: congrats! you are the king of keyboard crap.

Such a silly little game you play.

Untill you try a few transcon turns it would be prudent to refrain from calling those who have names like idiot or stupid. Like I said from experience: it is all about the length of the duty day, not the total flight hours. Even at my age I found the turns MUCH easier than 4-leg east coast 15 hour days.

Have a great day keep that keyboard going!!

 

[elag777]

Hey Jetblue dudes,


I have an opinion, and you can't silence me." I was not trying too, you are cheaper than pay per view" Flying transcon turns, especially back into bad weather in NYC, will be a safety hazard. You all may be super-human, but most are not. And, your 100 seat pay scale is very low for a profitable airline. Tell me I am wrong there too. You can't. "can too, can too"

Elag777,

Instead of placing quotes, why don't you make some of your own?"OK here is one, you are an idiot! that's all mine" Tell me how safe transcon turns will be with two pilots,"Nothing could be safer than flying to the west coast, getting there just before lunch. Going to a day hotel and pretending to rest for 8hrs. May be catching a few hours napping, then going to the airport to fly east on the red-eye and land in NY just before sun up with the vivrin quivers. Nothing on this planet could be safer than that right?" and then tell me your opinion about those new E190 rates that you probably will never have to fly under."Around 80k a year as a first year Captain,(that is without a max sched bid) most new hires will see the left seat in less than a year, good QOL and benefits, with an average of 15 days off, and with about a years worth of longevity, stone me! we must ask for the world! The a/c has not even proven itself in operation yet." Go ahead Abraham. Wait, maybe you will finally give me an answer in four score and.....
And, I know nothing about the study? I do long 8 hour days,"Is there a short 8hr day?" often with two legs, and I get tired after one of them, especially with wx delays. I guess you guys are all super human,"We all wear undergarments with a red B6 on them when we fly our "not paid for" busses." and will never feel the effects of jet lag or fatigue. Hey, you might be able to marry your sister and not have a mentally deformed kid also."Why bring that up, I love my sister! and we were proud that you had done so well at DAL, although you talk too much out of your "bottom." So, go do it, and do a study afterwards. I can't wait to see the result.Your newly formed daughter will have a mustache and three arms."Not sure where your sister is though" Cool. But hey, you did a study on it.....


Red,

Blindly following your cohorts also can make a person look like an idiot. Changing the rules, that were set up for safety reasons, for efficiecy gains primarily for your company, is idiotic as well. And, I do hope your group eventually tries to "ask" for a raise on those rates on the E190. If you were under the threat of Chap 11, I could understand. To say that you could go to Chap 11 if you asked for more, is shortsighted. You determine your worth by what you ask for. If it is too much, then you can renegotiate with proof.

Bye Bye--General Lee

GL, I was forgetting that you know everthing about everything!

 

[jbucpt]

Hey Jetblue dudes,


I have an opinion, and you can't silence me. Flying transcon turns, especially back into bad weather in NYC, will be a safety hazard. You all may be super-human, but most are not. And, your 100 seat pay scale is very low for a profitable airline. Tell me I am wrong there too. You can't......

hazardous conpared to what?? what actual study are you using? (is it your own retarded alpa spin or an actual fatique study being conducted right now.)

is a trans-con turn more hazardous than a 5 leg 7.5 to 8.0 flight day?
is a trans-con turn more hazardous than a bad wx day, on duty for 15 hours?
is a trans-con turn more hazardous than a "day sleep" turn. (you mean to tell me that getting 1 or 2 hours of sleep during the day is safer when flying a red eye back into bad wx? nice try....

i could see you now, back in 1960 thumping your ALPA chest saying: removing the third crewmember is a safety hazard!!!

as far as "taking it" i say again, take a good hard look at united's current alpa contract....i believe yours will look somewhat similar in the future....( oh,thats right, your dues will protect you)

 

[LandGreen]

Oooo, you got me. That sure is hilarious. Desperation really makes some people, like Flying Freddie, say things that make him look like an idiot. We cannot change what a judge does. But, Flying Freddie and his pals might be able to raise a stink, but CANNOT because they have no way to. Our company is doing poorly, and most of that is not our fault. Your company is doing well, but they LOWBALL YOU. They just set the bar for the 100 seater, and that inturn affects everyone else with less than 100 seats. Dave Neeleman and his cronies are jumping up and down (Dave more than others) and high fiving eachother. They GAVE you a rate and YOU TOOK IT BECAUSE YOU HAD TO. We could have the same problem, but from a JUDGE. Totally different financial pictures, but yours is ALL YOUR FAULT. Blue Kool-aid is good. And, I just don't think our rates will be lower than yours---highly doubtful. Maybe Comair and ASA(owned by Delta) will get cuts and actually get lower than yours.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

hey general!

at least JETBLUE pilots will be flying JETBLUE "RJ's"

are the DALPA pilots flying your DELTA RJ's?

 

[PCL_128]

hey general!

at least JETBLUE pilots will be flying JETBLUE "RJ's"

are the DALPA pilots flying your DELTA RJ's?

E190s are not RJs. If Delta wants to fly E190s, then DALPA scope ensures that DALPA pilots will fly them. What does your scope say? Oh, that's right: you don't have any scope. If good ole' Dave decided that Mesa was going to fly your Airbi tomorrow, then you couldn't do jack about it. You might want to lay off of the pro-Blue bragging. Remember, DAL was on top of the world 5 years ago, and look where they are now. Think it can't happen to Blue? Think again.