Moodys revises Jetblue debt to Negative

[GuppyPuppy]

By them moving on, most of us will move up (after the PRPs are gone). Them leaving 5 years early will help the rest of us make up for the loss, somewhat. I have moved up 2000 numbers in one year. ONE YEAR. I can hold a larger aircraft now (at least the 764 FO, maybe more), but I choose quality of life right now. (So I can come to Flightinfo and debate)


Bye Bye--General Lee

This is why you don't see such a public outrage at the payrates on the E190 by JB crews. Most figure they will be on the aircraft (as captain) a maximum of 3-4 years before they can hold a line on the Airbus (as captain) with better pay. I could take your statement highlighted in red and apply the same thinking to JB. "I will be able to make up for the lower pay by getting a quick upgrade".

I know you've been vocal about JB being non-union and I'd like to make an observation. Not until growth slows significantly will we see a union. Management is dangling a carrot in front of us in the form of a rather quick upgrade on the A320. Once we start seeing 3 year E190 FO's, then we might see some union action. Once we start seeing those 10+ year E190 captains making less than a Horizon pilot, then we might see some union action. A union vote at this time would be a waste of resources because it wouldn't pass. Now, if JB ponies up and starts paying more on the E190 (like many have speculated based on A320 pay history) then they can hold off a union. To those that think the E190 pay will increase to something respectable, I'll believe it when I see it. I think the pay increase on the A320 was due, in large part, to retain pilots. It was offered at a time when pilots were leaving to go to AA, DL and NW. In light of September 11th, I applaud JB management for keeping the pay raise.

I'd also like to know how long Delta was operating before their pilots voted in a union. Same goes for UA, AA, NW, US, CO1 and CO2, America West (wasn't it something like 10 or 11 years there? Even at Emery where we were treated like crap it took 5 or 6 years. BTW...ALPA did one heck of a screw job on the EWA pilots. ALPA has little concern for the smaller pilot groups because spending tons of money to protect them doesn't pay off (in their mind).

Lastly, General Lee...please don't paint the JB guys with such a broad brush. Many of us dislike the transcon turns and E190 pay. Personally, I question the safety aspect of a transcon turn when the weather is down. Personally, I think the rates on the E190 are low. However, I like my job and I intend to keep it. I will schmooze the customers and fly the plane the way they want me to, but at the end of the day it is still just a job. Days off and a paycheck. I've been at too many airlines to get a hard-on about this one too. Maybe I'll get that hard-on when I turn 60! Something for my wife to look forward to...or be scared of!!!

Cheers!

GP

 

[B6Guy]

Use reality General

General, if you are going to go off on a rant at least use real facts not BS.

At JetBlue:

There is no '5-year interview', our contract is forever, automatically renews. The 'five year' deal is for the company to revisit the pay scales every five years. Unless of course they have already revised them like our management did in 2001. They gave us a raise from $78/hr to $110/hr in '01. We didn't have to strike, threaten, or organize for this pay raise either.

Transcon turns:

Even for an old guy like myself, I found the JFK-OAK-JFK and JFK-LAS-JFK transcon turns to be MUCH easier than any of our 4-leg up and down the east coast 8 hour flight/ 15 hour duty pairings. And yes I even had bad weather on the return to JFK on one of the transcons. Don't make comments till you've tried it. It's about duty time, NOT flight time. And who said you were going to be able to adopt Jetblue's new efficient transcon turns [if we get them] at mother Delta?? I hope we can keep them for ourselves.

If you want to get re-married, I'd recommend your weight set that you are so proud of, or maybe your reflection in your mirror, or your 5000 posts. Maybe you can start a Poll where we all can commend you and pat you on your internet shoulders for your 5000 entries of drivel.

Get a life. Oh, you think you have one.....at your keyboard.

 

[General Lee]

General, if you are going to go off on a rant at least use real facts not BS.

At JetBlue:

There is no '5-year interview', our contract is forever, automatically renews. The 'five year' deal is for the company to revisit the pay scales every five years. Unless of course they have already revised them like our management did in 2001. They gave us a raise from $78/hr to $110/hr in '01. We didn't have to strike, threaten, or organize for this pay raise either.

Transcon turns:

Even for an old guy like myself, I found the JFK-OAK-JFK and JFK-LAS-JFK transcon turns to be MUCH easier than any of our 4-leg up and down the east coast 8 hour flight/ 15 hour duty pairings. And yes I even had bad weather on the return to JFK on one of the transcons. Don't make comments till you've tried it. It's about duty time, NOT flight time. And who said you were going to be able to adopt Jetblue's new efficient transcon turns [if we get them] at mother Delta?? I hope we can keep them for ourselves.

If you want to get re-married, I'd recommend your weight set that you are so proud of, or maybe your reflection in your mirror, or your 5000 posts. Maybe you can start a Poll where we all can commend you and pat you on your internet shoulders for your 5000 entries of drivel.

Get a life. Oh, you think you have one.....at your keyboard.

Thanks old man. (you said it) First of all, I was joking about your 5 year interview, even though you have no recourse should something go wrong (which would never happen to you guys). Dave Bushy will always take care of you.......I also have a bridge I would love to sell you, near your Yonkers crash pad.

Second, GIVE ME A BREAK ABOUT HOW EASY IT WOULD BE TO FLY TRANSCON TURNS. YOU SOUND STUPID. Nobody is strong enough or alert enough to BE AS ALERT AS YOU SHOULD BE when returning to JFK after a LGB turn. That is stupid. You will fall asleep at the wheel (or stick in your case) and you will hit the hotel on final for the VOR 13L. You will. Nose dive in. And your Captain or FO will be asleep too or a zombie. Throw some bad weather in there, and it will make it worse. You will line up and land on the oval at the Aquaduct race track.

Get re-married? What? You are clueless. I was joking with that "drivel" I was talking about. If you had a sense of humor you would have caught that. You don't. Ex Navy? I thought so. The 5000 mark post was a joke, and I was making fun of myself. I thought it was amazing that I even got there. I could explain more to you, but you aren't worth it.

Time to get a life, eh? You too pal.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

This is why you don't see such a public outrage at the payrates on the E190 by JB crews. Most figure they will be on the aircraft (as captain) a maximum of 3-4 years before they can hold a line on the Airbus (as captain) with better pay. I could take your statement highlighted in red and apply the same thinking to JB. "I will be able to make up for the lower pay by getting a quick upgrade".

I know you've been vocal about JB being non-union and I'd like to make an observation. Not until growth slows significantly will we see a union. Management is dangling a carrot in front of us in the form of a rather quick upgrade on the A320. Once we start seeing 3 year E190 FO's, then we might see some union action. Once we start seeing those 10+ year E190 captains making less than a Horizon pilot, then we might see some union action. A union vote at this time would be a waste of resources because it wouldn't pass. Now, if JB ponies up and starts paying more on the E190 (like many have speculated based on A320 pay history) then they can hold off a union. To those that think the E190 pay will increase to something respectable, I'll believe it when I see it. I think the pay increase on the A320 was due, in large part, to retain pilots. It was offered at a time when pilots were leaving to go to AA, DL and NW. In light of September 11th, I applaud JB management for keeping the pay raise.

I'd also like to know how long Delta was operating before their pilots voted in a union. Same goes for UA, AA, NW, US, CO1 and CO2, America West (wasn't it something like 10 or 11 years there? Even at Emery where we were treated like crap it took 5 or 6 years. BTW...ALPA did one heck of a screw job on the EWA pilots. ALPA has little concern for the smaller pilot groups because spending tons of money to protect them doesn't pay off (in their mind).

Lastly, General Lee...please don't paint the JB guys with such a broad brush. Many of us dislike the transcon turns and E190 pay. Personally, I question the safety aspect of a transcon turn when the weather is down. Personally, I think the rates on the E190 are low. However, I like my job and I intend to keep it. I will schmooze the customers and fly the plane the way they want me to, but at the end of the day it is still just a job. Days off and a paycheck. I've been at too many airlines to get a hard-on about this one too. Maybe I'll get that hard-on when I turn 60! Something for my wife to look forward to...or be scared of!!!

Cheers!

GP

GP,

I like your style. I like how you logically answer some of my questions and actually use reason. That is mighty civil of you, unlike your buddy here B6guy. Hopefully you don't have to fly with a pill like that too often.

I don't really know when the DL pilots started with ALPA, but it was before my time. I started in '96, and I have seen some ups and downs. (9-11 being the largest down I have ever seen) I hope you guys eventually get some sort of protection and a collective bargaining unit to make sure you do get what you deserve, and not what JB thinks you deserve. Your airline started fresh, with new payscales and year 1 longevity, and that is for every type of employee. That made it easier for you to weather 9-11 and the aftermath, since your costs weren't as high as the legacies. That fact will help you stay around probably.

I am glad you are against the transcon turns deal. You can see along with every other sane person that it would be dangerous and foolish to try a two man crew for over 10 hours, returning to possible bad weather in NY. IF you have 3 pilots that would rotate, that might be fine---we do that to Aruba sometimes and some Carribbean islands. That gives you the chance to rest and get some shut eye. But, the company doesn't want that extra expense. IF it were up to B6guy, you would be doing those turns, and he would marry his sister. He might as well change all of the rules. I am also glad you see the E190 rates the way they are, very low for a 100 seat aircraft. Sure it is cautious for your management crew, but it also a slap in your face. They can't afford an extra $10 or $20 an hour to show you that you are special and deserve a descent wage? You supposedly made it to the top (JB) and you get paid less than some 50 seater airlines? Come on. JBguy doesn't mind, though.

I appreciate you writing in a civil manner and bringing on a good debate. Take care.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Hey General.....



Refresh my short memory please................was it not motha delta that started the advent and pheonomenal growth of regional jets at the expense of mainline jobs?

I think we can all give at least a casual head nod to jetBlue management for not outsourcing their E190 to "jetBlue Connection"

Once the economics for this brand new a/c are in and IF jetBlue is still making a profit with them....then you can complain about pay rates! Until then please put those stones down since the glass walls in our "legacy house" are extremely fragil these days!

Wait, we weren't on the same list (or even the same airline). You guys are on the same list. We didn't even own ASA or Comair back then when the RJs took off. You guys on the JB airbi are not putting up a fight for your own future pilots. Big difference. Also, the RJ was an improvement over the props, and at the time didn't seem like a bad idea, especially with business travelers who didn't like props. Now, business travellers don't like RJs when they can take a LCC mainline plane instead. The E190 is not an RJ, and the crews shouldn't be paid like they fly one. You should know that. I think it is great JB is getting 100 seaters. Frontier has a 100 seater in the A318.(they have 7 currently) I don't think they make the JB E190 rates on that, do they? (12 year Capt is $157 an hour, and 12 year FO is $94 an hour---higher than your 12 year Captain rates on the E190) Are they doing better than you? They are a LCC too, and use your LiveTV also.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[TheXmanz]

Junk Pay

$89 per hour for the E190 after 12 years sucks bad enough, but its more like $79 per hour since JB has only been around a few...What where you guys thinking when you agreed to that? Just curious. A successful company agreeing to something like that, must be a very large carrot your CEO dangled in front of you guys!

 

[General Lee]

$89 per hour for the E190 after 12 years sucks bad enough, but its more like $79 per hour since JB has only been around a few...What where you guys thinking when you agreed to that? Just curious. A successful company agreeing to something like that, must be a very large carrot your CEO dangled in front of you guys!

He didn't even have to dangle his dingle, he JUST DID IT, and they TOOK IT. (And they weren't even under the threat of bankruptcy)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[klhoard]

$89 per hour for the E190 after 12 years sucks bad enough, but its more like $79 per hour since JB has only been around a few...What where you guys thinking when you agreed to that? Just curious. A successful company agreeing to something like that, must be a very large carrot your CEO dangled in front of you guys!

.
.
.
The JB guys don't have access to the word "agreement".
.
.
.

 

[AA717driver]

Just a small correction: APA turned down the Industry Leading contract offered in 2000-2001 because it included "baseball-style arbitration". That's a "winner-take-all" proposition.

There isn't an hourly rate high enough to entice me to agree to give THAT to AMR.TC

 

[elag777]

Let me guess, you didn't say anything because your 5 year "interview" was coming up? No union, no protection. They have learned how to shut you guys up----a 5 year interview...... You may care about the rates, but you are too scared to speak up. So, instead, you put your efforts into something better for the rest of us------TRANSCON TURNS. I can't wait to do JFK-LAX-JFK in one day. Maybe I could catch a good nap on the autoland back into JFK in the FOG. Next thing you will want is to marry your SISTER. Thanks a lot. Don't choke on the blue Kool-aid. Breathe in, breathe out.


Bye Bye--General Lee

OMG! A five year interview, no way! how could I have been so blind? and all the payments on the Airbus fleet are due by Friday! Please....

 

[General Lee]

OMG! A five year interview, no way! how could I have been so blind? and all the payments on the Airbus fleet are due by Friday! Please....

Yet, younever mention ANYTHING about the stupid transcon turns idea, or the E190 rates below some Regional rates. Interesting..........


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[elag777]

Yet, younever mention ANYTHING about the stupid transcon turns idea, or the E190 rates below some Regional rates. Interesting..........


Bye Bye--General Lee

What's interesting is that your statements are mostly based on "hear say" not fact. The trans con "stupid" (your word) idea is a study, nothing more at this point.AMP (Alertness Management Program)
190 rates are skewed as they don't reflect average line credit nor premium pay. There are many variables not being considered.

However I respect your opinions.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Just a small correction: APA turned down the Industry Leading contract offered in 2000-2001 because it included "baseball-style arbitration". That's a "winner-take-all" proposition.

There isn't an hourly rate high enough to entice me to agree to give THAT to AMR.TC

Is that what hurt Alaska with their latest "contract"? The arbitrator beat them up pretty bad.

 

[AA717driver]

FlyBoeing--There have always been suspect arbitrators--no question about that. AND, the Alaska decision had the effect of "winner-take-all". But to codify that concept in the CBA was too much.

Good luck to the Alaska guys!TC

 

[michael707767]

Second, GIVE ME A BREAK ABOUT HOW EASY IT WOULD BE TO FLY TRANSCON TURNS. YOU SOUND STUPID. Nobody is strong enough or alert enough to BE AS ALERT AS YOU SHOULD BE when returning to JFK after a LGB turn.

with all due respect, and not saying I agree with transcon turns, but which is worse? A trip that goes JFK-SFO-JFK with say 10 block hours on a 12 hour duty day or a trip that goes ATL-JAX-ATL-DFW-ATL-MSY for say 7.5 hours block in the same 12 hour duty day? Personally, I think I would be more alert after the two leg transcon than at the end of the 5 and 6 leg days I used to fly on the 88.

I think fatigue from flying is cumulative. And over a long period, I think flying hours build up fatigue, partially due to the time in an airplane and partially due to the duty periods associated with getting those hours. I agree with and fully support 30n7 and 100 in a month. But frankly within a 24 hour period I think duty day is much more of a factor than block hours. And the current FAA max duty day is way, way, too long.

 

[FlickerFade]

with all due respect, and not saying I agree with transcon turns, but which is worse? A trip that goes JFK-SFO-JFK with say 10 block hours on a 12 hour duty day or a trip that goes ATL-JAX-ATL-DFW-ATL-MSY for say 7.5 hours block in the same 12 hour duty day? Personally, I think I would be more alert after the two leg transcon than at the end of the 5 and 6 leg days I used to fly on the 88.

Very well said!

I might add, why is it ok to do a comparable turn in a DC-10? Those 5+ leg days with 10+ hours on duty are way more taxing.

 

[General Lee]

with all due respect, and not saying I agree with transcon turns, but which is worse? A trip that goes JFK-SFO-JFK with say 10 block hours on a 12 hour duty day or a trip that goes ATL-JAX-ATL-DFW-ATL-MSY for say 7.5 hours block in the same 12 hour duty day? Personally, I think I would be more alert after the two leg transcon than at the end of the 5 and 6 leg days I used to fly on the 88.

I think fatigue from flying is cumulative. And over a long period, I think flying hours build up fatigue, partially due to the time in an airplane and partially due to the duty periods associated with getting those hours. I agree with and fully support 30n7 and 100 in a month. But frankly within a 24 hour period I think duty day is much more of a factor than block hours. And the current FAA max duty day is way, way, too long.

So, lets go ahead and have only two pilots going to Europe too from ATL and JFK. Where does it stop? It will stop when we crash a plane. Maybe a 24 hour reserve call would be good too? NO more beer.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[elag777]

So, lets go ahead and have only two pilots going to Europe too from ATL and JFK. Where does it stop? It will stop when we crash a plane. Maybe a 24 hour reserve call would be good too? NO more beer.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Fear of the unknown or I should say not understood is your only arguement here. I see that it may be due to the fact that you like others feel it would be abused. The point is you know nothing about the study, and should reserve comments for later.
Someone once said:
"It is far better to remain silent and be thought an idiot, than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt!" How true GL....

 

[IB6 UB9]

with all due respect, and not saying I agree with transcon turns, but which is worse? A trip that goes JFK-SFO-JFK with say 10 block hours on a 12 hour duty day or a trip that goes ATL-JAX-ATL-DFW-ATL-MSY for say 7.5 hours block in the same 12 hour duty day? Personally, I think I would be more alert after the two leg transcon than at the end of the 5 and 6 leg days I used to fly on the 88.

I think fatigue from flying is cumulative. And over a long period, I think flying hours build up fatigue, partially due to the time in an airplane and partially due to the duty periods associated with getting those hours. I agree with and fully support 30n7 and 100 in a month. But frankly within a 24 hour period I think duty day is much more of a factor than block hours. And the current FAA max duty day is way, way, too long.

Excellent point. The General thinks this is a good point too, he just can't say it because it is B6's idea. There would be a different tune whistled if ALPA proposed this.

 

[dlredline]

Fear of the unknown or I should say not understood is your only arguement here. I see that it may be due to the fact that you like others feel it would be abused. The point is you know nothing about the study, and should reserve comments for later.
Someone once said:
"It is far better to remain silent and be thought an idiot, than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt!" How true GL....

Elag777,

Excellent post, and advice several on this board would be well served to take. And for accuracy the quote is below:


Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. Abraham Lincoln
16th president of US (1809 - 1865)

 

[General Lee]

Hey Jetblue dudes,


I have an opinion, and you can't silence me. Flying transcon turns, especially back into bad weather in NYC, will be a safety hazard. You all may be super-human, but most are not. And, your 100 seat pay scale is very low for a profitable airline. Tell me I am wrong there too. You can't.

Elag777,

Instead of placing quotes, why don't you make some of your own? Tell me how safe transcon turns will be with two pilots, and then tell me your opinion about those new E190 rates that you probably will never have to fly under. Go ahead Abraham. Wait, maybe you will finally give me an answer in four score and.....
And, I know nothing about the study? I do long 8 hour days, often with two legs, and I get tired after one of them, especially with wx delays. I guess you guys are all super human, and will never feel the effects of jet lag or fatigue. Hey, you might be able to marry your sister and not have a mentally deformed kid also. So, go do it, and do a study afterwards. I can't wait to see the result.Your newly formed daughter will have a mustache and three arms. Cool. But hey, you did a study on it.....


Red,

Blindly following your cohorts also can make a person look like an idiot. Changing the rules, that were set up for safety reasons, for efficiecy gains primarily for your company, is idiotic as well. And, I do hope your group eventually tries to "ask" for a raise on those rates on the E190. If you were under the threat of Chap 11, I could understand. To say that you could go to Chap 11 if you asked for more, is shortsighted. You determine your worth by what you ask for. If it is too much, then you can renegotiate with proof.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Diesel-9]

Well said General. And their work rules. Have flown a couple trips with former JetBlue F/O's that are back after furlough. Their pay/work rules are an insult and how they defend them even worse. Won't go into other things he said about experiences on the JFK west coast turns and how glad he was to get out after comparing operations.

 

[dlredline]

...Blindly following your cohorts also can make a person look like an idiot. Changing the rules, that were set up for safety reasons, for efficiecy gains primarily for your company, is idiotic as well. And, I do hope your group eventually tries to "ask" for a raise on those rates on the E190. If you were under the threat of Chap 11, I could understand. To say that you could go to Chap 11 if you asked for more, is shortsighted. You determine your worth by what you ask for. If it is too much, then you can renegotiate with proof.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Nothing "blind" with my vision here, having spent over 25 years in this industry which includes several Ch. 11's and 2 furloughs. I'm just willing to wait to see the hard data before making an emotional decision one way or the other.

GL, I'm convinced you're a smart guy and dedicated individual to your own opinions, and I enjoy reading them. However, constantly calling others "idiots" and "idiotic" for their opinions diminishes your argument, and I think is beneath you. This discussion is valid without the mud-drag. Raise the bar and others will follow (my quote, not Abe's).

Best to ya,

Red

 

[Flying Freddie]

Yet, younever mention ANYTHING about the stupid transcon turns idea, or the E190 rates below some Regional rates. Interesting..........


Bye Bye--General Lee

Or that the Delta pay rates may be lower than the E190 after the October 16th bankruptcy.....................

 

[General Lee]

Or that the Delta pay rates may be lower than the E190 after the October 16th bankruptcy.....................

Oooo, you got me. That sure is hilarious. Desperation really makes some people, like Flying Freddie, say things that make him look like an idiot. We cannot change what a judge does. But, Flying Freddie and his pals might be able to raise a stink, but CANNOT because they have no way to. Our company is doing poorly, and most of that is not our fault. Your company is doing well, but they LOWBALL YOU. They just set the bar for the 100 seater, and that inturn affects everyone else with less than 100 seats. Dave Neeleman and his cronies are jumping up and down (Dave more than others) and high fiving eachother. They GAVE you a rate and YOU TOOK IT BECAUSE YOU HAD TO. We could have the same problem, but from a JUDGE. Totally different financial pictures, but yours is ALL YOUR FAULT. Blue Kool-aid is good. And, I just don't think our rates will be lower than yours---highly doubtful. Maybe Comair and ASA(owned by Delta) will get cuts and actually get lower than yours.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[B6Guy]

Typical 'General'

General, you often repeat or create anti-[insert airline name] drivel with the intention of baiting readers into responding. Often over and over again like a little kid who learned a new word.

5-year this, 12 year rates, stupid idiotic transcon turns, no representation etc, etc. Do you REALLY believe that those 12 year rates will actually be the same in 12 years?? Get real.

THEN when someone responds to your bait, you fall back and claim you are 'just joking' and that the respondant 'obviously' has no sense of humor. This is your game you play over and over again on this forum. You use this game to repeat over an over again the false BS and bait-phrases you like to see in print associated with your name. But then of course you can write numerous replies defending your baited post or attacking the respondants. And by doing so run up your total post count.

Then if someone agrees with your BS then you respond several times more commending the people who agree with your bait. All in the name to be the high-poster on this forum. What a goal, to have the worst case of keyboard diarhea on this forum: congrats! you are the king of keyboard crap.

Such a silly little game you play.

Untill you try a few transcon turns it would be prudent to refrain from calling those who have names like idiot or stupid. Like I said from experience: it is all about the length of the duty day, not the total flight hours. Even at my age I found the turns MUCH easier than 4-leg east coast 15 hour days.

Have a great day keep that keyboard going!!

 

[elag777]

Hey Jetblue dudes,


I have an opinion, and you can't silence me." I was not trying too, you are cheaper than pay per view" Flying transcon turns, especially back into bad weather in NYC, will be a safety hazard. You all may be super-human, but most are not. And, your 100 seat pay scale is very low for a profitable airline. Tell me I am wrong there too. You can't. "can too, can too"

Elag777,

Instead of placing quotes, why don't you make some of your own?"OK here is one, you are an idiot! that's all mine" Tell me how safe transcon turns will be with two pilots,"Nothing could be safer than flying to the west coast, getting there just before lunch. Going to a day hotel and pretending to rest for 8hrs. May be catching a few hours napping, then going to the airport to fly east on the red-eye and land in NY just before sun up with the vivrin quivers. Nothing on this planet could be safer than that right?" and then tell me your opinion about those new E190 rates that you probably will never have to fly under."Around 80k a year as a first year Captain,(that is without a max sched bid) most new hires will see the left seat in less than a year, good QOL and benefits, with an average of 15 days off, and with about a years worth of longevity, stone me! we must ask for the world! The a/c has not even proven itself in operation yet." Go ahead Abraham. Wait, maybe you will finally give me an answer in four score and.....
And, I know nothing about the study? I do long 8 hour days,"Is there a short 8hr day?" often with two legs, and I get tired after one of them, especially with wx delays. I guess you guys are all super human,"We all wear undergarments with a red B6 on them when we fly our "not paid for" busses." and will never feel the effects of jet lag or fatigue. Hey, you might be able to marry your sister and not have a mentally deformed kid also."Why bring that up, I love my sister! and we were proud that you had done so well at DAL, although you talk too much out of your "bottom." So, go do it, and do a study afterwards. I can't wait to see the result.Your newly formed daughter will have a mustache and three arms."Not sure where your sister is though" Cool. But hey, you did a study on it.....


Red,

Blindly following your cohorts also can make a person look like an idiot. Changing the rules, that were set up for safety reasons, for efficiecy gains primarily for your company, is idiotic as well. And, I do hope your group eventually tries to "ask" for a raise on those rates on the E190. If you were under the threat of Chap 11, I could understand. To say that you could go to Chap 11 if you asked for more, is shortsighted. You determine your worth by what you ask for. If it is too much, then you can renegotiate with proof.

Bye Bye--General Lee

GL, I was forgetting that you know everthing about everything!

 

[jbucpt]

Hey Jetblue dudes,


I have an opinion, and you can't silence me. Flying transcon turns, especially back into bad weather in NYC, will be a safety hazard. You all may be super-human, but most are not. And, your 100 seat pay scale is very low for a profitable airline. Tell me I am wrong there too. You can't......

hazardous conpared to what?? what actual study are you using? (is it your own retarded alpa spin or an actual fatique study being conducted right now.)

is a trans-con turn more hazardous than a 5 leg 7.5 to 8.0 flight day?
is a trans-con turn more hazardous than a bad wx day, on duty for 15 hours?
is a trans-con turn more hazardous than a "day sleep" turn. (you mean to tell me that getting 1 or 2 hours of sleep during the day is safer when flying a red eye back into bad wx? nice try....

i could see you now, back in 1960 thumping your ALPA chest saying: removing the third crewmember is a safety hazard!!!

as far as "taking it" i say again, take a good hard look at united's current alpa contract....i believe yours will look somewhat similar in the future....( oh,thats right, your dues will protect you)

 

[LandGreen]

Oooo, you got me. That sure is hilarious. Desperation really makes some people, like Flying Freddie, say things that make him look like an idiot. We cannot change what a judge does. But, Flying Freddie and his pals might be able to raise a stink, but CANNOT because they have no way to. Our company is doing poorly, and most of that is not our fault. Your company is doing well, but they LOWBALL YOU. They just set the bar for the 100 seater, and that inturn affects everyone else with less than 100 seats. Dave Neeleman and his cronies are jumping up and down (Dave more than others) and high fiving eachother. They GAVE you a rate and YOU TOOK IT BECAUSE YOU HAD TO. We could have the same problem, but from a JUDGE. Totally different financial pictures, but yours is ALL YOUR FAULT. Blue Kool-aid is good. And, I just don't think our rates will be lower than yours---highly doubtful. Maybe Comair and ASA(owned by Delta) will get cuts and actually get lower than yours.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

hey general!

at least JETBLUE pilots will be flying JETBLUE "RJ's"

are the DALPA pilots flying your DELTA RJ's?

 

[PCL_128]

hey general!

at least JETBLUE pilots will be flying JETBLUE "RJ's"

are the DALPA pilots flying your DELTA RJ's?

E190s are not RJs. If Delta wants to fly E190s, then DALPA scope ensures that DALPA pilots will fly them. What does your scope say? Oh, that's right: you don't have any scope. If good ole' Dave decided that Mesa was going to fly your Airbi tomorrow, then you couldn't do jack about it. You might want to lay off of the pro-Blue bragging. Remember, DAL was on top of the world 5 years ago, and look where they are now. Think it can't happen to Blue? Think again.