Moodys revises Jetblue debt to Negative

[lowecur]

You sound drunk. Your rates are higher than CHQ's huh? Good for you. Your 100 seat rates are less than 50 seat rates at Expressjet(max pay at both airlines--E145 vs E190). Come on Smoke and Mirrors, you can't trick us. And, I didn't really understand what you were going to do late at night on your own time. Becareful leaving your pad in Yonkers at night, you may want to run.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

Check the P&L for Continental and AMR last Q. Where did there big losses come from? You guessed it.........Eagle & XJT. The 50 seat RJ is a cash drain and those two carriers may stay out of bk, but they will have to deal with it another way. Those high rates at XJT won't last.

 

[General Lee]

hey general, (aka: hypocrite)

i know misery loves company, however, i didnt see your great "union protectors" staging sick out, picketing, calling for strikes when your union protector's gave your "industry leading contract ALL BACK.... way to lead by example!!

whats are your "union protectors" going to do when your bending over in september???

if you still believe we have a 5 year "interview" then your as ignorant as i assume you to be...........

HA HA. Maybe you haven't been at a company that has stated "we will go Chap 11 and change everything anyway if you don't take this $1 billion pay cut a year."?? If you were incharge of the union, you could have done better..... Yeah right. Maybe you don't know the whole story. We probably would have given more cuts sooner, and we did offer some first, until the SERP problem occured. That was Leo Mullins grand plan to send $65 million to an offshore account to guarantee pensions for senior executives. ALPA didn't like that very much. Our union actually discovered that plan and ratted out the people responsible. Leo Mullin was then pretty much fired, and a lot of his cronies went along with him----thanks to our union. You guys can't even speak up without fearing Dave Bushey and his henchmen. $89 an hour for a 12 year Captain on a 100 seat jet???? That is ridiculous. Especially for a company that isn't even close to Chap 11. I can understand getting that rate when a judge hands it to you, but you guys "took it in the arse" and there has been little mention since publically. Why? Because most of you don't have to fly that plane if you don't want to. Leave it for your future pilots. Nice.



oldxfr8dog,

No JBLU pilots support transcon turns? we had plenty on this board extolling the virtues of having 7 or 8 working days on, then the rest off. Hmmmm. How about being a zombie for 5 more days, and then being put in the grave with a bunch of other people. Ridiculous. But wait, your auto pilot can do the VOR 13 L at JFK in bad weather......Right..... Any other changes you guys want to do for the rest of us to enjoy?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[BoilerUP]

I *seriously* doubt Expressjet pilots would accept a concessionary contract.

 

[lowecur]

I can understand getting that rate when a judge hands it to you, but you guys "took it in the arse" and there has been little mention since publically. Why? Because most of you don't have to fly that plane if you don't want to. Leave it for your future pilots. Nice. Bye Bye--General Lee

Posturing???

Your senior pilots sure showed mgt and the juniors. They stuck to their guns so they could retire with a nice nestegg, thus leaving the doodoo for you guys to clean up. Nice. Is it "One for all and all for one" or "every man for themselves" at DL?"

 

[General Lee]

Posturing???

Your senior pilots sure showed mgt and the juniors. They stuck to their guns so they could retire with a nice nestegg, thus leaving the doodoo for you guys to clean up. Nice. Is it "One for all and all for one" or "every man for themselves" at DL?"

Those guys actually earned THEIR MONEY. They were here for more than 25 years, and they lived by the rules for the longest time. They deserved the money. As far as leaving the rest of us in the learch, they didn't have a choice. When DL says it can't afford the payments, and we can all see that, I say take your money and run. Most could not make that money up if they stayed another 5 years. By them moving on, most of us will move up (after the PRPs are gone). Them leaving 5 years early will help the rest of us make up for the loss, somewhat. I have moved up 2000 numbers in one year. ONE YEAR. I can hold a larger aircraft now (at least the 764 FO, maybe more), but I choose quality of life right now. (So I can come to Flightinfo and debate)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[lowecur]

Those guys actually earned THEIR MONEY. They were here for more than 25 years, and they lived by the rules for the longest time.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Holding the line sealed DLs future in BK. I told you that many moons ago.

 

[General Lee]

Holding the line sealed DLs future in BK. I told you that many moons ago.

They are allowed to retire anytime after 50 years old. This financial debacle is NOT our fault. The C2K contract was affordable at the time we signed it. Then some management mistakes ($2 billion stock buy back, SERP program, selling the fuel hedges, underestimating the LCc craze, thinking USAir would just go away, etc) really sealed the deal. Blaming us for trying to better our own lives WHEN we could afford it is not right. We accepted cuts when we needed to and everyone else was participating.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[jbucpt]

[ guys can't even speak up without fearing Dave Bushey and his henchmen. $89 an hour for a 12 year Captain on a 100 seat jet???? That is ridiculous. Especially for a company that isn't even close to Chap 11. I can understand getting that rate when a judge hands it to you, but you guys "took it in the arse" and there has been little mention since publically. Why? Because most of you don't have to fly that plane if you don't want to. Leave it for your future pilots. Nice.


no, we didnt take it in the a**, YOU TOOK IN THE A** AND WILL STILL BE BENDING OVER BY THE END OF THIS YEAR. (the united flight attendants have more balls than you and your alpa boys)

no, i dont like the pay rates, BUT, i would rather start with same " pilot cost per seat mile" than:
A. GIVE BACK THE MONEY
B. LOSE MY RETIREMENT
C. FURLOUGH, ( oh, thats right, your ALPA had a NO FURLOUGH CLAUSE, THEN YOU AND YOUR SENIOR ALPA PILOTS PICK UP OPEN TIME TO "SAVE THE COMPANY")

yet there was: no picketing, no strike talk, NOTHING!! and YOU HAVE THE GALL TO SAY THAT JETBLUE PILOTS DONT SPEAK UP AND ARE AFRAID??

i can promise you this general hypocrite, when the E-190's take-off, those pilots will be getting a raise while your losing yours.

the truth is general, mullins made mistakes, but you and ALPA tried and sqeezed every last egg out of delta's goose with your last "contract". now that time's are bad, YOU are paying for it.

we might not be as "high and mighty" like you boys at delta, but we wont be retarded and make the same mistakes YOU AND YOUR ALPA BROTHERHOOD made.

" We don't want to kill the golden goose; we just want to choke it by the neck until it gives us every last egg it has."

 

[oldxfr8dog]

oldxfr8dog,

No JBLU pilots support transcon turns? we had plenty on this board extolling the virtues of having 7 or 8 working days on, then the rest off. Hmmmm. How about being a zombie for 5 more days, and then being put in the grave with a bunch of other people. Ridiculous. But wait, your auto pilot can do the VOR 13 L at JFK in bad weather......Right..... Any other changes you guys want to do for the rest of us to enjoy?

Bye Bye--General Lee

I didn't say NO JBLU pilots support T'cons. I said It was a management idea, not the pilots. How many have supported it on this site? 5, 10? How many know the restrictions which will be imposed by the FAA waiver? Do you?
If it does get approval, there won't be any 7 or 8 days on. (Nice bit of diversion, there, Gen.) There is no proposal to modify the 30/7 rule, as far as I know.
At this point, I am personally against the T'con turn program. When the conditions, rules, schedules, and what-ifs are explained, I'll take a look at it. Then, I'll make a decision, as will most JB pilots.

Congrats' on >5000 post, BTW!

 

[lowecur]

They are allowed to retire anytime after 50 years old. This financial debacle is NOT our fault. The C2K contract was affordable at the time we signed it. Then some management mistakes ($2 billion stock buy back, SERP program, selling the fuel hedges, underestimating the LCc craze, thinking USAir would just go away, etc) really sealed the deal. Blaming us for trying to better our own lives WHEN we could afford it is not right. We accepted cuts when we needed to and everyone else was participating.

Bye Bye---General Lee

You could have taken your present deal many moons before you finally did, but the seniors chose to take a slow death of the company so they could schedule the attrition to top out their pensions. This little maneuver has put the whole company at risk if you don't get a capital infusion in BK. I believe you will get your capital infusion in BK, but not without further pain to the people that are left. The new owners will insist.

 

[FlickerFade]

Pardon my entry into the fray, but re: trans-con turns:

-Why are they any different than 3-man turns? In terms of effort, a 3-man crew is legal for this type of flying, yet 2 aren't. Does this make sense, are the CA and FO sleeping more if they've got an FE??

-Doing long dist. turns are a great way to max out quality of life. I would also argue that it is way easier than a 6-8 leg day of a much shorter distance.

-There are lots of restrictions in order to get the exemption if I remember correctly.

 

[MedFlyer]

The C2K contract was affordable at the time we signed it.

Bye Bye---General Lee

No, it wasn't. Even during the best of times (the late 90's), the C2K contract wasn't affordable. By time the C2K contract was ratified, DL had already begun to bleed red ink.

I'm not blaming the DL pilots for all DL's problems. DL's bozo management certainly made plenty of mistakes. The first mistake was being bullied into a contract they couldn't afford.

 

[General Lee]

No, it wasn't. Even during the best of times (the late 90's), the C2K contract wasn't affordable. By time the C2K contract was ratified, DL had already begun to bleed red ink.

I'm not blaming the DL pilots for all DL's problems. DL's bozo management certainly made plenty of mistakes. The first mistake was being bullied into a contract they couldn't afford.

Medflyer,

Sure it was. Even Leo Mullin said at the time to our MEC "I would expect you to go for the highest pay possible. You are worth it, right?" Good ole Leo thought we should fight for it, and would have thought less of us had we not. That was the only possitive thing I could really say about him. He made some large mistakes, but he also knew that you should fight for your worth. He actually said that. And, he signed the contract.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

[ guys can't even speak up without fearing Dave Bushey and his henchmen. $89 an hour for a 12 year Captain on a 100 seat jet???? That is ridiculous. Especially for a company that isn't even close to Chap 11. I can understand getting that rate when a judge hands it to you, but you guys "took it in the arse" and there has been little mention since publically. Why? Because most of you don't have to fly that plane if you don't want to. Leave it for your future pilots. Nice.


no, we didnt take it in the a**, YOU TOOK IN THE A** AND WILL STILL BE BENDING OVER BY THE END OF THIS YEAR. (the united flight attendants have more balls than you and your alpa boys)

no, i dont like the pay rates, BUT, i would rather start with same " pilot cost per seat mile" than:
A. GIVE BACK THE MONEY
B. LOSE MY RETIREMENT
C. FURLOUGH, ( oh, thats right, your ALPA had a NO FURLOUGH CLAUSE, THEN YOU AND YOUR SENIOR ALPA PILOTS PICK UP OPEN TIME TO "SAVE THE COMPANY")

yet there was: no picketing, no strike talk, NOTHING!! and YOU HAVE THE GALL TO SAY THAT JETBLUE PILOTS DONT SPEAK UP AND ARE AFRAID??

i can promise you this general hypocrite, when the E-190's take-off, those pilots will be getting a raise while your losing yours.

the truth is general, mullins made mistakes, but you and ALPA tried and sqeezed every last egg out of delta's goose with your last "contract". now that time's are bad, YOU are paying for it.

we might not be as "high and mighty" like you boys at delta, but we wont be retarded and make the same mistakes YOU AND YOUR ALPA BROTHERHOOD made.

" We don't want to kill the golden goose; we just want to choke it by the neck until it gives us every last egg it has."

Ok, what? First off, we didn't have that remark---that was United's MEC chair, Dubinski, and they actually slowed down the company (Summer of 98) and left United in even worse shape prior to 9-11. That was the way to do it, riiiiight. Then, when we were fighting for our contract, we were SUED by the company and LOST---we had to keep flying overtime. That is insane, but they had the GA judge in their corner. So, knowing that now, and knowing that the new President Bush had said "There will be NO strikes during the Summer of 2001"---what would your union do? Your union? OOOOOPS. You guys let management tell you what will happen.......Got it yet chief? We didn't have the choice to strike---WE DIDN'T. We couldn't even stop flying overtime without getting sued. We had 33 or more pilots sued for $100,000 each for insighting a riot on our ALPA boards. We settled with DL after signing our contract, which was the biggest in history anyway, and affordable at the time. IF you knew 9-11 was coming, why didn't you say anything?

As far as bending over in the future, it may happen. Luckily, many pilots have left, and most of us will move up and try to regain our lost pay on larger aircraft. As far as our no-furlough clause---it did state "circumstances for which we have no control." Would you classify 9-11 and the resulting down turn in that category? I would. It was the worst thing that has ever happened in our industry's history. I would say they over did it alittle, but they were worried that people would not come back as fast. They did, but this was something unknown. Other mistakes were made by management after that, and Grinstein admits it. Our union has held together and done what has been best for our long term survivability. You and your guys will take it and love it whatever Bushy and Neeleman think is best. You guys are profitable and were profitable when the E190 rates were created. I never heard anything publically decrying that fact, primarily because you have no protection. You have no excuse.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Pardon my entry into the fray, but re: trans-con turns:

-Why are they any different than 3-man turns? In terms of effort, a 3-man crew is legal for this type of flying, yet 2 aren't. Does this make sense, are the CA and FO sleeping more if they've got an FE??

-Doing long dist. turns are a great way to max out quality of life. I would also argue that it is way easier than a 6-8 leg day of a much shorter distance.

-There are lots of restrictions in order to get the exemption if I remember correctly.

The Jetblue guys (management) don't want to hire extra people to be that third pilot. They want to stretch the rules and safety in general to get what they want. Some Jetblue people want the change too, hoping to rely on their A320 autopilots and the great blue coffee served from the young stews. Hopefully the weather will always be great on return to NY. Maybe I am not the $6 million bionic man like most of the Jetblue pilots----I am tired after one 5 1/2 hour leg to LAX from JFK. Maybe, oh maybe, flying to LGB is the Key---less stress than LAX......


Bye Bye--General Lee