Moodys revises Jetblue debt to Negative

lowecur

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FlyBoeingJets

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Good on you Lowecur. Your opinion looks less biased today.
 

Lrjet55

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Can someone with, perhaps, a finance background expand on this comment a little. What exactly does this all mean.


NEW YORK, Aug 1 (Reuters) - Moody's Investors Service on Monday revised the outlook on JetBlue Airways Corp.'s (JBLU.O: Quote, Profile, Research) debt ratings to negative from stable, citing a difficult U.S. passenger market.
Moody's also affirmed the airline's "Ba3" corporate family debt rating, which is three steps below investment-grade
What
 

dane

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new name!

Allright,

I will make the suggestion, lets rename Jetblue to:

Debtblue;)


Regards,

dane
 

klhoard

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Hmmmm, I guess the payments are finally due on those brand new airplanes??
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Will that be Euro's or Dollars??
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lowecur

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Lrjet55 said:
Can someone with, perhaps, a finance background expand on this comment a little. What exactly does this all mean. It means sqwat in the short term. Jetblue is a highly leveraged mega growth startup. With profits as lean as they are, and the unlikelyhood of a major liquidation anytime soon(other than Flyi), Jetblue will have to rely on an untested business plan to get Moodys to adjust their debt back to stable. Of course, I believe the 190 will be the ticket to do just that.:)




What
Moody's also affirmed the airline's "Ba3" corporate family debt rating, which is three steps below investment-grade.

In other words, high grade junk.
 
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Daddy

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Basically, the lower the grade the higher the risk to lend to that company and the higher the interest that company must pay to get money from bonds. For JBLU, this means it will cost them more money to borrow to buy aircraft or whatever...I imagine their lower margins are a big part of this downgrade...Moody's sees the lower margins on the latest report as an indication they they will be less likely (not UNlikely) to pay off their bonds going forward...as a pilot, you probably shouldn't worry...as an investor...who the he11 knows in this industry...
 

General Lee

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I don't care what anyone says on this board----Jetblue IS NOT the next Peoplesexpress. Nothing will EVER go wrong for this airline, nothing. Neeleman is a genius, and his pay structure at Jetblue will keep that airline going forever, because that is how their business plan was created...


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

FDJ2

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JBLU is still expected to be profitable throughout 2005, with an operating margin of between 5-7%. Although far less than the double digit margins of the past, it is still a profit. That being said, costs unrelated to fuel will continue to increase CASM at JBLU going forward. JBLU's SEC filing spells some of this out.

Depreciation and amortization increased 59.0%, or $10.3 million, due primarily to having 15.7 more average owned aircraft during the three months ended June 30, 2005 compared to the same period in 2004. Cost per available seat mile increased 26.6% primarily due to a higher percentage of our aircraft fleet being owned. Depreciation and amortization on an absolute and cost per available seat mile basis is expected to increase as a result of placing into service our new hangars in Orlando and at New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport, or JFK, and our training center including five simulators during the quarter which will be partially offset by reduced rent expense.

Maintenance materials and repairs increased 61.8%, or $5.2 million, due to having 15.7 more average operating aircraft in 2005 compared to the same period in 2004. Cost per available seat mile increased 28.9% due to the completion of 19 airframe checks in 2005 compared to 11 in 2004 and an increase in the average age of our fleet from 2.0 years to 2.5 years, partially offset by lower rates for airframe checks. Maintenance is expected to increase significantly as our fleet ages.

 

BenderGonzales

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GeneralLee...

are you serious? You honestly can't see the parallels between Jetblue and People's Express/New York Air?

Jetblue has a good product that the customers like. That's fantastic! But as they grow as a company, as their employees become more senior, and as they deviate from their successful formula (i/e new E-Jets) they will find themselves at risk for failure.

Wall Street is obviously beginning to recognize that unfortunate reality.
 

G4G5

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This is nothing that was not expected. With oil reaching $62 a barrel, I would expect further down grades.
 

PCL_128

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BenderGonzales said:
GeneralLee...

are you serious? You honestly can't see the parallels between Jetblue and People's Express/New York Air?
I think the General was being very sarcastic on that one. Much like the General, I'm beginning to smell that all too familiar PeopleExpress stench. How long until the Daves get big enough egos to buy a few A340s to fly to Europe for $99/ticket? Don Burr and PeopleExpress were once the darlings of Wall Street and the media also. We all know how that turned out. Too much, too soon. Southwest took over 30 years to get as big as it is right now. They have always been very conservative and have never tried to overextend themselves. JetBlue is trying to move much too quickly, and it's going to bite them in the ass.
 

lowecur

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General Lee said:
I don't care what anyone says on this board----Jetblue IS NOT the next Peoplesexpress. Nothing will EVER go wrong for this airline, nothing. Neeleman is a genius, and his pay structure at Jetblue will keep that airline going forever, because that is how their business plan was created...


Bye Bye--General Lee
Sooooooooooo............When did you apply?
 

Eagleflip

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PCL 128 wrote:
JetBlue is trying to move much too quickly, and it's going to bite them in the ass.

Well shucks...guess I'd better start dusting off my resume and figure out how to serve tables at the local Chili's now that industry visionary PCL has exposed us for what we are.

Fast growing, over-extended, greedy folks.

Blue folks, that is.:cool:

And General...again, your penchant for pomposity rears it's head. How unbecoming. :p Do you similarly rant about Spirit, Airtran and other LCC's pay scales?

Nah, changed my mind. I'll just stick things out and see how they turn up.

Seriously, I think G4G5 has a point. This oil situation has everyone on the defense. And I fear there is no end in sight for these high prices, given China and Korea's recent surge in oil imports. They don't intend on slashing their consumption any more than we do.

The solution, thus, is a reasonable fare increase to cover the additional cost of fuel. And to get that, we need pricing leverage. To get that we'll need either a. collusion (uh, that's illegal) , b. a reasonable approach to the competition in ticket pricing (unlikely) or c. a reduction in the number of seats available on any given segment (an unpalatable solution--the demise of a carrier).
 

exagony

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klhoard said:
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Hmmmm, I guess the payments are finally due on those brand new airplanes??
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Will that be Euro's or Dollars??
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PESOS!!!
 

Dangerkitty

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BenderGonzales said:
GeneralLee...

are you serious? You honestly can't see the parallels between Jetblue and People's Express/New York Air?

Jetblue has a good product that the customers like. That's fantastic! But as they grow as a company, as their employees become more senior, and as they deviate from their successful formula (i/e new E-Jets) they will find themselves at risk for failure.

Wall Street is obviously beginning to recognize that unfortunate reality.
I have a new rule for flightinfo.com.

If you don't understand nor realize someone's attempt at sarcasm during a post then you are required to write a 10 page thesis on sarcasm and the pros/cons it has had on American Literature.
 

General Lee

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lowecur said:
Sooooooooooo............When did you apply?
The way people are retiring here, I should be number 1 at Delta in a few months..... No, I don't plan on applying there, and I was just making fun of the Jetblue guys who think their $hit don't stink. Every airline has problems with high fuel prices, and Neeleman has stated that even $80 a barrel oil could be handled by Jetblue and their great business plan. Obviously Moody's feels differently. But, they are a good airline with Live TV, and people like that. I don't think People'sExpress had any one gadget besides lower fares. Jetblue has lower fares and free Live TV. They are the ones to beat, and we are trying to compete with Song.

So, let me say it again: I think jetblue is a good airline with some great ideas (LiveTV and now the E190 etc). But, as the years go by, the costs will mount (mx for Airbi etc), and that may be why the pay scales for the E190 are "regional" level---to help pay for future costs.....


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

lowecur

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G4G5 said:
This is nothing that was not expected. With oil reaching $62 a barrel, I would expect further down grades.
I believe most of the U.S. airline industry, cept for you know who, has a negative rating.
 

lowecur

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General Lee said:
The way people are retiring here, I should be number 1 at Delta in a few months..... No, I don't plan on applying there, and I was just making fun of the Jetblue guys who think their $hit don't stink. Most of the people who post Jetblue are nice people. I think they get tired of hearing that they lowered the bar. Most of the pilots that pound them are out of work, and find them a good scapegoat. Every airline has problems with high fuel prices, and Neeleman has stated that even $80 a barrel oil could be handled by Jetblue and their great business plan. He believes that. Can they do it? Yeah, I think they can. He said for every $20 increase in oil, Jetblue only needs a $10 ticket increase. Obviously Moody's feels differently. Moody's sees the smaller margins and unproven new business plan, and they owe bond investors a fair rating. Are they wrong?...No. Once they see the 190 will be a plus to their financials, they will reaffirm to stable. But, they are a good airline with Live TV, and people like that. I don't think People'sExpress had any one gadget besides lower fares. Jetblue has lower fares and free Live TV. They are the ones to beat, and we are trying to compete with Song.

So, let me say it again: I think jetblue is a good airline with some great ideas (LiveTV and now the E190 etc). But, as the years go by, the costs will mount (mx for Airbi etc), and that may be why the pay scales for the E190 are "regional" level---to help pay for future costs.....the 190 is regional because MidAtlantic and Republic set the bar for the E-jet. Why should Delta or the new US Airways have a cost advantage. You have a short memory.


Bye Bye--General Lee
.....
 

BenderGonzales

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People's Express had "gadgets" - Buy Your Lunch Onboard!
Oh "People's" had its own "gadgets". You paid for tickets once you were underway (like a train). The F/As accepted cash for snacks en'route. The entertainment was watching pilots load and unload luggage.

Growth Junkies
ol' Lorenzo and Donn Burr were growth junkies too. Remember the 747? Might have been a white elephant for People's Express, but it had much lower costs per seat mile than the E-190.... and it was a proven airframe without the gremlins that the Brazillian's seem to install as standard equipment.

The original Greyhound Air. Thats what people wanted. That's what People's Express provided.

Jetblue Provides Value to its Customers
Today people want a little bit more for their money and, frankly, its fantastic that Jetblue was able to recognise this and provide a product that its customer wants for a fair price. The Legacy airlines could learn a lot about providing value from Jetblue. The onboard entertainment is a stroke of genius!

Just because something works today, doesn't mean it will work tomorrow!
This doesnt mean that I believe Jetblue will ultimately be successful. I hope it will for its employees. But I have my doutbs. Over time I believe they will experience growing pains as their fleet and their employee group matures.

If "W" doesn't do somethin' about oil prices, we'll all be driving Flintstone cars!
This may all be academic. If oil prices don't come under control the ONLY company that could be profitable will be Mesa -- and only if they buy 757s and fly them at their existing B1900 payrates. (tongue-in-cheek...a little)
 
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