Mindset of the typical US Airways east pilot?

[General Lee]

You mean, that flawed seniority list where a 17 year never furloughed pilot was placed next to a new hire? The list produced by a flawed union that no longer exists??? Yeah, keep dreaming about the Nic- the Nic is dead. 98%.

Nicky,

The USAir Easties agreed to the arbitrator beforehand. They could have ruled out Nic, but he was one of their choices! Then they signed on the bottom line to accept the award, along with the Westies and the Company. The Easties are a bunch of spoiled brat losers who are a "known" entity now, that the APA will rip apart, while everyone else smiles.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Scoot 11]

Aww, Dan and scoot have man crushes on me

I have my moments, but fellas, I'm already taken-

I never expected you guys to like it when I was being a dick and calling you sellouts every six seconds, but I have no illusions that I'd 90% agree with you on every other subject

Wave. According to your man love red, I hear you can suck start a Harley! No wonder he's smitten!:laugh:

 

[waveflyer]

I was wondering where scoot was

5th & mlk any city in america

 

[C Festerpuss]

Them CLT Reps is gonna go Newclearr on the New American

[FONT=&quot]U.S. Intelligence Confirms: The Hillbillies Have the Bomb[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]For the first time since the end of the Cold War, the specter of nuclear Armageddon looms over the world, as the Pentagon announced yesterday that a group of hillbillies in central Tennessee has constructed a fully operational 50-megaton nuclear device.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]The hillbillies successfully completed their first test detonation Monday in the Tennessee desert.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]With this potential for destruction in the hands of people who have throughout history acted out violently for no better reason than family tradition, scientists in Helsinki, Finland, have moved the doomsday clock back up to one minute before midnight.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Pentagon officials were tipped off to the backwoods people's potential to invoke mass destruction last week when an A.T.S. agent returned from the Smoky Mountains claiming that a group of hillbillies had threatened to "nuke him up real good cause he was a lookin a closing down a still? The bomb's existence and operational status were later confirmed by a team of scientists who, after finding the weapon in a hay thresher, were run out of hillbilly territory by a family armed with a shotgun and three dogs named "Duke."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The scientists describe the bomb as a plutonium-lined copper kettle which could easily be imploded to critical mass by igniting the whiskey-drenched possum pelts hanging around its perimeter.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"It is primitive yet brilliant," said Dr. John Hall, the Pentagon's chief investigator. Hall was not sure how they got the plutonium, but said that their handling of it, wearing no more protection than baggy overalls, likely resulted in mutations far beyond those that regularly occur as a result of inbreeding.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Granny Vera, the matriarch of the hillbillies in question, released a statement to the media yesterday by yelling across Ol' Thunder Gorge to a group of reporters gathered on the opposite cliff. "We ain't dealin' with y'all no more!" she said. "Now that we got us this 'nuke-lar' thing, y'all best stay off our land lest we commence to incin'ratin' folks 'till Hell won't have 'em!"[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]She also ordered "rev'nooers" to stay away, and warned "them prohibition folk" to stop searching for her Pappy's stills.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Though all hillbillies have joined together in solidarity against "city folk," military analysts worry that if feuding among clans were to resume, one side might decide to use more than buckshot.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Said U.S. Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel, "We can only pray that the hillbilly culture is advanced enough to understand the sophisticated theory of peace through nuclear deterrence."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]At this point, the Defense Department believes that the hillbillies possess no means of moving the warhead outside their territory. However, if the hillbillies' bomb were detonated in the epicenter of their community, it would have catastrophic effects on the outside, civilized world.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]With this in mind, President Obama says his main goal is to get the hillbillies to dismantle their bomb entirely. To that end, he plans to negotiate with the hillbillies, offering them tax cuts, greater freedom in liquor production and a revocation of all laws prohibiting incest.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

 

[DCAA320]

Nicky,

The Easties are a bunch of spoiled brat losers who are a "known" entity now, that the APA will rip apart, while everyone else smiles.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Everyone talks big behind the keyboard and like someone else said on another thread, you need some new material, your old crap is getting old.

 

[waveflyer]

Everyone talks big behind the keyboard and like someone else said on another thread, you need some new material, your old crap is getting old.

How about my new stuff then?

GL is an annoying troll- but he's right on this one

Want me to repost mine? bc no east supporter responded

 

[DCAA320]

How about my new stuff then?

GL is an annoying troll- but he's right on this one

Want me to repost mine? bc no east supporter responded

I was referring to gl calling a pilot group "a bunch of spoiled brat losers" even though many had nothing to do with the Nic. Such the tough guy he is. I was off fighting a war when all the voting was taking place, not to mention, no matter who/what I vote for, he/it never wins.

What's your new take on this? Predicting the future SLI are you? Good for you. ************************* lee doesn't know, you don't know, I don't know, how this thing is gonna turn out.

 

[waveflyer]

Fair enough

Looking forward to a resolution, however it turns out, as soon as possible.
I can't imagine how those directly involved feel on all sides

 

[Superbird]

Usapa is still a failure and an embarrassment on the industry.

 

[A350]

Whats an embarrassment to the industry is a Union that has allowed seniority integration policy (just about the most important part of any pilots career should it happen to the airline you work for) to be a flag pointed in any direction based on the current "administration" instead of a hard, not wavering policy that you either get behind or you get lost.

For crying out loud, the AFA has better principles when it comes to this stuff than the ultimate pilots union. This should have been fixed years ago.

ALPA has let this fester for years. They never offered or brokered a solution. The elephants (DAL, NWA, UAL) got their way while the TWA's, the USAir's, and the Air Tran's of the world took it in the shorts. (and the Pan Am guys before that)

Since I take it on faith that UAL furloughees were given credit for their time at the airline within the merged SLI with CAL, I guess it escapes most of you that this is the inevitable result of the political clown show that is ALPA merger policy.

The only thing that bodes well for the future with ALPA and merger policy is that for the most part, future consolidation and therefore merger policy, will be on the back burner for a while now.

That is little consolation for those who have to daily eat the crap sandwich that ALPA served up to the USAir group....including East and West.

A350

 

[Dornier 335]

Everyone talks big behind the keyboard and like someone else said on another thread, you need some new material, your old crap is getting old.

If you remind him of some of the crap that happened at his super airline, he suddenly becomes ... let's say, pauciloquent. He feeds on misery and disputes of others, I have seen this type with previous mergers.

 

[General Lee]

Everyone talks big behind the keyboard and like someone else said on another thread, you need some new material, your old crap is getting old.

The truth hurts, eh DCAA320? Yeah it does, and it will. Your group is the laughing stock of this industry, and everyone knows what happened. I bet the APA guys are licking their chops, and watching to see if you cross your fingers behind your back.... That appears to be necessary dealing with you guys...


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

If you remind him of some of the crap that happened at his super airline, he suddenly becomes ... let's say, pauciloquent. He feeds on misery and disputes of others, I have seen this type with previous mergers.

Wrong. Not even close. The Pan Am acquisition was partial assets, and those guys could have stayed at Pan Am until the end, or some went to UAL. The Western pilots got twice the pay, and stayed out West. None of those groups had anything binding that could be legally challenged, like the Westies do now. Wrong again Dornier.... But you've seen this type before.....riiiight. Nobody had ever seen this type of "land grab" that your union has tried to pull, in front of everyone! We all know your group is guilty, and soon it will hopefully be proven in court. It's ripe, just like your shorts.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Superbird]

Whats an embarrassment to the industry is a Union that has allowed seniority integration policy (just about the most important part of any pilots career should it happen to the airline you work for) to be a flag pointed in any direction based on the current "administration" instead of a hard, not wavering policy that you either get behind or you get lost.

For crying out loud, the AFA has better principles when it comes to this stuff than the ultimate pilots union. This should have been fixed years ago.

ALPA has let this fester for years. They never offered or brokered a solution. The elephants (DAL, NWA, UAL) got their way while the TWA's, the USAir's, and the Air Tran's of the world took it in the shorts. (and the Pan Am guys before that)

Since I take it on faith that UAL furloughees were given credit for their time at the airline within the merged SLI with CAL, I guess it escapes most of you that this is the inevitable result of the political clown show that is ALPA merger policy.

The only thing that bodes well for the future with ALPA and merger policy is that for the most part, future consolidation and therefore merger policy, will be on the back burner for a while now.

That is little consolation for those who have to daily eat the crap sandwich that ALPA served up to the USAir group....including East and West.

A350

Usapa has done more harm to the East and West than ALPA. Period. The east will soon realize what a stain Usapa has left on their careers. If you're not following closely, look at the infighting among the personalities among its scab leadership.

They hate each other. APA cannot take over fast enough to end this miserable group of idiots and their schemes.

 

[Dornier 335]

Wrong. Not even close. The Pan Am acquisition was partial assets, and those guys could have stayed at Pan Am until the end, or some went to UAL. The Western pilots got twice the pay, and stayed out West. None of those groups had anything binding that could be legally challenged, like the Westies do now. Wrong again Dornier.... But you've seen this type before.....riiiight. Nobody had ever seen this type of "land grab" that your union has tried to pull, in front of everyone! We all know your group is guilty, and soon it will hopefully be proven in court. It's ripe, just like your shorts.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Personal attack, again? Are you ready for another FI vacation?

What do you know about the mergers I had previously mentioned to you? Nothing! Happened a long time ago, on another continent far far away (~8 hours), but your sorry type that sticks his nose into other peoples poo is universal. Either because of pure Schadenfreude or because of being a self proclaimed Aviation Jesus.

P.S. Tell us how the PA guys had to re-interview.

 

[waveflyer]

Whats an embarrassment to the industry is a Union that has allowed seniority integration policy (just about the most important part of any pilots career should it happen to the airline you work for) to be a flag pointed in any direction based on the current "administration" instead of a hard, not wavering policy that you either get behind or you get lost.

For crying out loud, the AFA has better principles when it comes to this stuff than the ultimate pilots union. This should have been fixed years ago.

ALPA has let this fester for years. They never offered or brokered a solution. The elephants (DAL, NWA, UAL) got their way while the TWA's, the USAir's, and the Air Tran's of the world took it in the shorts. (and the Pan Am guys before that)

Since I take it on faith that UAL furloughees were given credit for their time at the airline within the merged SLI with CAL, I guess it escapes most of you that this is the inevitable result of the political clown show that is ALPA merger policy.

The only thing that bodes well for the future with ALPA and merger policy is that for the most part, future consolidation and therefore merger policy, will be on the back burner for a while now.

That is little consolation for those who have to daily eat the crap sandwich that ALPA served up to the USAir group....including East and West.

A350

Then you answer my previous question
Where was your movement to change ALPA merger policy before america west bought you?

 

[St. Nic]

Then you answer my previous question
Where was your movement to change ALPA merger policy before america west bought you?

Date of Hire is a standard we all live by- next time you non rev see how it is ordered. Next time you bid for schedules see how the bid results are ordered. You need to understand alpa was gone long before crazy St Nic came along. All that senile arbiTRAITOR did was give us the last straw. The greedy Westicles gave us unity.
Look at how things have changed between east and west since 2005. East- hired. West- furloughed. Nuff said

 

[Superbird]

Date of Hire is a standard we all live by- next time you non rev see how it is ordered. Next time you bid for schedules see how the bid results are ordered. You need to understand alpa was gone long before crazy St Nic came along. All that senile arbiTRAITOR did was give us the last straw. The greedy Westicles gave us unity.
Look at how things have changed between east and west since 2005. East- hired. West- furloughed. Nuff said

"Unity" is alive and well among the dysfunctional "leadership" at the sinking union. East on East! Is that how they run things in "yer neck'o the woods"?

St. Nic, your buddies seem scared...

(Cue: dueling banjos)

 

[becket]

Date of Hire is a standard we all live by- next time you non rev see how it is ordered. Next time you bid for schedules see how the bid results are ordered. You need to understand alpa was gone long before crazy St Nic came along. All that senile arbiTRAITOR did was give us the last straw. The greedy Westicles gave us unity.
Look at how things have changed between east and west since 2005. East- hired. West- furloughed. Nuff said

Parker whipsawed us against you...the Cheap Labor. You delivered a one Billion dollar gift right on his lap because of your egregious little temper tantrum. 2 out of 3 upgrades wasn't enough for you greedy, sale absorbed, entitled prickks. You had to get them ALL. I hope the 100 extra temporary upgrades was worth pissing away over a THIRD of your career idiot.

 

[TWA Dude]

Date of Hire is a standard we all live by- next time you non rev see how it is ordered.

AA nonrevs go by order of check-in. You're about to get a real serious education at your new airline.

 

[A350]

wave.....

Do you really reside in a fantasy world where you believe a USAir pilot would have any luck in changing ALPA merger policy?

The elephants control this. And no matter what, ALPA only changed it again because they couldn't afford to have another merger mess on their hands and potentially lose another airline group after the East pilots took their ball and went home.

ALPA didn't understand that you cant screw with the majority of any group and expect a decent outcome in the end. The Nic, agree with it or not, screwed the majority and the result was pretty predictable.

A350

 

[Dan Roman]

wave.....

Do you really reside in a fantasy world where you believe a USAir pilot would have any luck in changing ALPA merger policy?

The elephants control this. And no matter what, ALPA only changed it again because they couldn't afford to have another merger mess on their hands and potentially lose another airline group after the East pilots took their ball and went home.

ALPA didn't understand that you cant screw with the majority of any group and expect a decent outcome in the end. The Nic, agree with it or not, screwed the majority and the result was pretty predictable.

A350

You are trying to blame ALPA for not dealing with an impossible situation. On one hand you had an old established airline that had a lot of pilots on furlough that probably were not coming back and in fact, most saw that USAir was on the verge of being parted out. On the other hand you had an upstart airline that was not furloughing and in fact, had Captains hired after many of the USAir furloughees had been. While AWA was not exactly a financial powerhouse, they did have the resources to put together a deal that did, in fact, revive the East's careers. There was just not an easy solution or any way of merging this list civilly , the correct thing was to go to binding arbitration and then just move forward.
The fact that St Nic thinks a few pilots hired on the east side (were labor was cheapest) justifies the loss of a billion dollars or more to the pilot group shows just how irrational the USAPIAN train of thought can be.

 

[A350]

Dan:

ALPA gets paid to deal with impossible situations....however they suck at resolving them and love to duck and run when the chips are down.

Of course there was an acceptable way to do this....they just don't want to hear it.

Permanently disadvantaging the majority of a pilot group for the rest of their career when there were viable solutions available is where the wheels went off the wagon. (fences, conditions and restrictions which were a part of many a previous SLI ) That, combined with Prater's condescending leadership and you have a predictable outcome. You cannot expect rational behavior from the East because with the implementation of the Nic, they had nothing left to lose.

The notion that AWA saved USAir is in the eyes of the beholder. AWA did not have the money, nor the business to swallow the East by any means. The banks gave them the money to broker a deal because the combined entity was more viable than the two separate companies. AWA needed a deal to survive long term, and if it wasn't USAir, it would have been someone else. Look at Parker's MO. It has been his MO and continued to be his MO as he tried to merge with anyone who would have him, and this is true before the East and West merger and every day afterward up until the AMR transaction. The notion that the Nic is OK because the East was in BK and their pilots had no career expectations is an inane as telling the AMR pilots that they had no expectations as they were in BK too, so lets put the AWA pilots (and the East pilots) ahead of them too.

Have fun selling that to the AMR pilots.

A350

 

[waveflyer]

Well said Dan,
But 350-
Those are all arguments that are well and good, but you avoided my question. Usair had an apathetic pilot group who saw their own contract amended 93 times (LOA93, right?) without any movement to require a vote from the membership as a whole. That's an MEC issue. I can count several ALPA groups that require a vote if compensation changes at all or changes by a certain percentage. Back room deal after back room deal passed and your group did nothing.

Now to what you avoided. The usair group did nothing to change ALPA merger policy until america west bought them and you figured out that date of hire would benefit you. And benefit you big time.

The policy changed well before. Why the apathy? Certainly after united in 2000. After psa, piedmont, trump, etc- you couldn't believe that usair would never be in another M&A.

Why did it take so long to get active? And do you realize that all your DOH gold standard means next to nothing when you never cared until it benefitted you.

WHEN DO USAIR PILOTS GET TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR PREVIOUS APATHY?
Why the impotent attempt to change things AFTER the fact?

 

[St. Nic]

We took responsibility into our own hands and that's why we are Usapa!!!
Argue all you want the facts remain the Nic was a non starter and the west greed caused this mess. Plus a senile arbitraitor. You can place a 18 year never furloughed pilot next to a new hire. Ain't gonna work!!!!
Alpa wise up and changed the policy when they saw the mistake and abortion Nicolau caused the piloting profession. The east pilots did this to preserve the only thing we all bring to a merger: DATE OF HIRE!

 

[Jim]

we gave up our integrity and that's why we are usapa!!!

fify.

 

[waveflyer]

We took responsibility into our own hands and that's why we are Usapa!!!
Argue all you want the facts remain the Nic was a non starter and the west greed caused this mess. Plus a senile arbitraitor. You can place a 18 year never furloughed pilot next to a new hire. Ain't gonna work!!!!
Alpa wise up and changed the policy when they saw the mistake and abortion Nicolau caused the piloting profession. The east pilots did this to preserve the only thing we all bring to a merger: DATE OF HIRE!

Let me ask you something

When you finally hired, didn't you place a probation pilot 1 number junior to your 18 year never furloughed FO?

 

[St. Nic]

Let me ask you something

When you finally hired, didn't you place a probation pilot 1 number junior to your 18 year never furloughed FO?

Nic placed him senior to our guys

 

[St. Nic]

fify.

Gee playing games again eh? Play all you want but Usapa is your union and you can't change that. Oh thanks for supporting our legal fund to fight Army of Laryngitis

 

[Jim]

Gee playing games again eh? Play all you want but Usapa is your union and you can't change that. Oh thanks for supporting our legal fund to fight Army of Laryngitis

Since I'm a Hawaiian pilot, ALPA is my union.