Midwest has more than one foot in the ground

[MCOE175]

And that is what the FAA uses as the default answer to an inconclusive investigation.

The fact is that while climbing at V2+10 or 165knots, the rate of deceleration to 156 or stall speed was too rapid for the crew/engines to resond no matter who was flying. That combined with the loss of pitch authority from the partially severed/damaged flight controls made it impossible to fly out of. So instead of grounding the entire DC9-10/30 fleet they chose to use the default pilot error ruling. Our pilot group and ALPA have fought with the feds for years regarding the inaccuracy of this particular investigation...

So like I said...get your facts straight.

Can you tell me what it was like being on this plane when it happened...
Funny thing... I don't see anything mentioning you in the investigation!

HMMMM...

I am sorry, you are right.

 

[Colonel Savage]

There was an RAH guy on this website that had an avatar that was basically a picture of an E170 in Midwest colors. Underneath the picture it read "Mad Dog Killer."

I can't remember his name. I think he's since removed it. But some of these guys just don't see the big picture.

He may as well have it read "Mainline Job Killer"

That would be McNugget, aka McButtNugget, a Total Tool. One of those who takes pleasure in cutting the throat of his own career expectations.

Stupid is as stupid does.

 

[FSIGRAD]

For real!.....guys have guppy killer stickers on their flight bags? I haven't seen this. Seriously low class. If you have this on your flight bag, I wouldn't advertise it....especially if you want a ride somewhere.

This "guppy killer" sticker thing is an urban myth. I have flown with hundreds of crews and never seen one.

 

[jravi8tor]

This "guppy killer" sticker thing is an urban myth. I have flown with hundreds of crews and never seen one.

I've actually seen them; it's been a few years know, but when going through O'hare when RAH started doing UAL feed there were a few pilots that displayed these stickers on their bags in distaste!

 

[FSIGRAD]

I've actually seen them; it's been a few years know, but when going through O'hare when RAH started doing UAL feed there were a few pilots that displayed these stickers on their bags in distaste!

Okay an actual eyewitness sighting. What does this sticker look like? A guppie with a slash thru it, (ala ghostbusters) Just the phrase "guppie killer" or is E-170 in the design also. I'm really just curious I have never seen or heard of this from anyone at RAH.

 

[jravi8tor]

Okay an actual eyewitness sighting. What does this sticker look like? A guppie with a slash thru it, (ala ghostbusters) Just the phrase "guppie killer" or is E-170 in the design also. I'm really just curious I have never seen or heard of this from anyone at RAH.

If memory serves it was an E-170 with Guppy above the picture and the word Killer below.

 

[cheeseheadcrj]

If memory serves it was an E-170 with Guppy above the picture and the word Killer below.

Thats the way I remember it as well, very poor taste by those who had them.

 

[Scapegoat]

I have seen the stickers at ORD too.
The fact of the matter is that the E-170 is a Guppy Killer. Strictly speaking airplane vs airplane. It can offer more frequency in a comfortable mainline cabin operating at a much reduced cost, (labor included).

Does it take mainline jobs? I suppose yes, but nothing is stopping United Mainline from operating these aircraft other than labor costs. Same with Midwest. The UA or MidEX pilots are not going to fly it for $80 something an hour so what happens next? They contract the work out.
Operating costs killed the 737 for United. You cant have 2 midsize aircraft, (737 & A320), and be cost competitive in this market. They had 5 different types operating, (still do). Can you imagine the sim costs after a 747 retiree after everyone else moves up? It has to be huge!

However, should the pilots that fly these E170's watch what they say.....You bet. But the very provoking nature of this message board (and industry), will always over power common sense.

Good luck to MidEx'ers. Dont know what will happen in the next couple of years but a consolidation or merger seems to be the way to go if you want to hang on. SG.

 

[hockeypilot44]

I have seen the stickers at ORD too.
The fact of the matter is that the E-170 is a Guppy Killer. Strictly speaking airplane vs airplane. It can offer more frequency in a comfortable mainline cabin operating at a much reduced cost, (labor included).

Does it take mainline jobs? I suppose yes, but nothing is stopping United Mainline from operating these aircraft other than labor costs. Same with Midwest. The UA or MidEX pilots are not going to fly it for $80 something an hour so what happens next? They contract the work out.
Operating costs killed the 737 for United. You cant have 2 midsize aircraft, (737 & A320), and be cost competitive in this market. They had 5 different types operating, (still do). Can you imagine the sim costs after a 747 retiree after everyone else moves up? It has to be huge!

However, should the pilots that fly these E170's watch what they say.....You bet. But the very provoking nature of this message board (and industry), will always over power common sense.

Good luck to MidEx'ers. Dont know what will happen in the next couple of years but a consolidation or merger seems to be the way to go if you want to hang on. SG.

Why can't mainline fly these aircraft and pay its pilots what it pays to fly a DC-9 or 717? They're all about the same size. Why do the pilots have to make so little? Regional pilots are so used to being broke that $80/hour for a captain seems like a lot of money. The first officers only see the left seat. They don't care that they are making poverty wages because they think that left seat is around the corner. You think mainline pilots are selfish because we want to fly the same aircraft for twice as much. Management loves it that we fight with each other instead of with them. They use us against each other.

 

[FSIGRAD]

I'm on the lookout for one of these stickers. I'll be the first to admit it's in bad taste if I do find one.

 

[deadstick]

Midex-ers:

What's the story of MZ during his time in Flight Ops? Feel free to PM.

Thanks.

 

[Minimaniac]

You think mainline pilots are selfish because we want to fly the same aircraft for twice as much. Management loves it that we fight with each other instead of with them. They use us against each other.

No one thinks that you are selfish because you want a good wage for the 70+ seat airplane. We think that mainline pilots (senior ones) are selfish because they voted away the futures of regional pilots by relaxing scope in order to get a bigger pay check.

We would all be thrilled if the 170/175 was at mainline and had a $50-$160/hr pay range from day one to year 12. We would love to leave the regionals behind. The only reason we fly these planes here at our regional abusers is because mainline pilots gave them away.

I do think it is selfish to give something away, and then change your mind and take it back. We regional pilots have had to build our lives and livelihoods around these larger airplanes. To take them back now (and leave the pilots behind) would devastate the lives of thousands of families. And you only want these planes back because now you have thousands on furlough. Yes, everyone can claim hurt to families. But, mainline pilots chose this hurt for their own people when they relaxed scope. We did not ask to be left jobless.

Not to mention, mainline does not have a great track record with compensation for E170-E190 pilots. MidAtlantic was a B-scale airline, the pay scale mimicking a regional as determined by mainline pilots who had eyes for their own paycheck only. Now mainline USAirways still pays less than $100/hr for the E190. RAH pay goes up to $119/hr for the smaller E-175. JetBlue does not have these heroic pay rates you threaten, either. Sure, Delta has a good payrate for the E-jets, but that is purely theoretical. There are no E-jets at Delta mainline, and Delta management is going to keep it that way.

 

[hockeypilot44]

No one thinks that you are selfish because you want a good wage for the 70+ seat airplane. We think that mainline pilots (senior ones) are selfish because they voted away the futures of regional pilots by relaxing scope in order to get a bigger pay check.

We would all be thrilled if the 170/175 was at mainline and had a $50-$160/hr pay range from day one to year 12. We would love to leave the regionals behind. The only reason we fly these planes here at our regional abusers is because mainline pilots gave them away.

I do think it is selfish to give something away, and then change your mind and take it back. We regional pilots have had to build our lives and livelihoods around these larger airplanes. To take them back now (and leave the pilots behind) would devastate the lives of thousands of families. And you only want these planes back because now you have thousands on furlough. Yes, everyone can claim hurt to families. But, mainline pilots chose this hurt for their own people when they relaxed scope. We did not ask to be left jobless.

Not to mention, mainline does not have a great track record with compensation for E170-E190 pilots. MidAtlantic was a B-scale airline, the pay scale mimicking a regional as determined by mainline pilots who had eyes for their own paycheck only. Now mainline USAirways still pays less than $100/hr for the E190. RAH pay goes up to $119/hr for the smaller E-175. JetBlue does not have these heroic pay rates you threaten, either. Sure, Delta has a good payrate for the E-jets, but that is purely theoretical. There are no E-jets at Delta mainline, and Delta management is going to keep it that way.

Republic pays $119/hour for the smaller 175 and 190's if you ever get them. Republic maxes its first officers out at $37/hour. Every single US Airways' captain is making the maximum. If you average out the Republic captains, it probably comes out to around $75/hour. I'm being generous. In reality, it's probably lower than that. There are many lifers at Republic that will never see more than $100/hour. You guys will take paycuts eventually just like Expressjet, Air Wisconsin, Comair, Mesaba, etc. At Midwest, there were first officers making $100/hour and captains making $150/hour. There is a reason why they are pissed about being replaced. Republic is a disgrace. I know you want to be proud of it because you work there, but in reality, it is a thriving company that treats and pays its pilots well below industry standard. No work rules, no contract in sight.....you get the idea.

 

[Wesb737fo]

No one thinks that you are selfish because you want a good wage for the 70+ seat airplane. We think that mainline pilots (senior ones) are selfish because they voted away the futures of regional pilots by relaxing scope in order to get a bigger pay check.

We would all be thrilled if the 170/175 was at mainline and had a $50-$160/hr pay range from day one to year 12. We would love to leave the regionals behind. The only reason we fly these planes here at our regional abusers is because mainline pilots gave them away.

I do think it is selfish to give something away, and then change your mind and take it back. We regional pilots have had to build our lives and livelihoods around these larger airplanes. To take them back now (and leave the pilots behind) would devastate the lives of thousands of families. And you only want these planes back because now you have thousands on furlough. Yes, everyone can claim hurt to families. But, mainline pilots chose this hurt for their own people when they relaxed scope. We did not ask to be left jobless.

Not to mention, mainline does not have a great track record with compensation for E170-E190 pilots. MidAtlantic was a B-scale airline, the pay scale mimicking a regional as determined by mainline pilots who had eyes for their own paycheck only. Now mainline USAirways still pays less than $100/hr for the E190. RAH pay goes up to $119/hr for the smaller E-175. JetBlue does not have these heroic pay rates you threaten, either. Sure, Delta has a good payrate for the E-jets, but that is purely theoretical. There are no E-jets at Delta mainline, and Delta management is going to keep it that way.

Yeah.....keep polishing that turd...

 

[jravi8tor]

As an Midwest furloughee, I have no faith and this is perhaps the final nail in the coffin...

Southwest Airlines to fly out of Milwaukee

By Tom Daykin of the Journal Sentinel
Posted: May. 20, 2009 10:12 a.m.
Southwest Airlines, the nation's largest low-fare carrier, plans to begin flying out of Milwaukee's Mitchell International Airport later this year, the company is to announce Wednesday.
Southwest's entry into Milwaukee will likely bring more choices, and lower ticket prices, for area fliers. It also brings another formidable competitor for Midwest Airlines, Delta Air Lines, AirTran Airways and other carriers that fly from Mitchell.
The announcement is expected at Dallas-based Southwest's annual shareholders meeting. This story will be updated when more information becomes available.
One industry source said Southwest would probably offer non-stop flights to leisure destinations such as Las Vegas, Phoenix and Orlando, Fla. Midwest, Mitchell's largest carrier, cut back on flights to those cities, and other Florida leisure destinations, when it announced a 40% service reduction last year.
Midwest Airlines/Midwest Connect remains Mitchell's No. 1 carrier, with a 35.1% market share in March, according to airport data. Delta, which is integrating Northwest Airlines into its system, is No. 2, with 22.6% share. AirTran, another low-fare carrier, is No. 3, with 19.8% share.
A customer satisfaction survey, released Tuesday by the University of Michigan, rated Southwest with the highest score, 81 on a zero-to-100 scale. After Southwest, Continental Airlines Inc. scored 68, Delta, 64, American Airlines, 60, US Airways, 59, Northwest, 57, and United Airlines, 56.

 

[Colonel Savage]

"...A customer satisfaction survey, released Tuesday by the University of Michigan, rated Southwest with the highest score, 81 on a zero-to-100 scale. After Southwest, Continental Airlines Inc. scored 68, Delta, 64, American Airlines, 60, US Airways, 59, Northwest, 57, and United Airlines, 56."

Wow! Talk about a race to the bottom! No wonder Legacies are getting their heads handed to them by the LCC's!

 

[flying zephyr]

It's over, the fat lady has sung. It was a nice run, but see ya'. I just can't believe the idiots on Howell did this to a once great company with what had been a promising future.

 

[ultrarunner]

It's over, the fat lady has sung....

She sure has Zephyr!

I'll tell ya though, I live in AirTran/SWA market...and I LIKE IT! I suspect the folks of MKE won't shed to many a tear when MEH closes up...other than the employees that made it all happen over the years...those that are left anyway.

 

[donkeykong]

It's over, the fat lady has sung. It was a nice run, but see ya'. I just can't believe the idiots on Howell did this to a once great company with what had been a promising future.

It's hard to believe TPG left TH running the joint. HE's the one that brought the company to its predicament. I mean seriously, what did they expect from that mgmt team?

 

[fam62c]

This isn't going to help AirTran any either. The LCC's are running out of places to compete with the legacy carriers and they are now starting to compete with each other. Southwest seems to be going everywhere lately with a few flights rather than really developing some of the newer cities. If they aren't growing I wonder where the airplanes to serve MKE will come from?