Midwest has more than one foot in the ground

[fam62c]

The same for fam happened before you. He has trouble with sarcasm at times, but he still means well. How are you Wolf? Any light for you, or are you in the same big boat as most everyone else?

Thanks Propsync;

We came from the same family so you know what we went through. I didn't mean to be flippant about the increased competition for Midwest, I don't want to see anybody lose their jobs but the Midwest situation is turning into a tragic comedy. They spent 20+ years building up an airline and now they are just basically walking away and letting it get destroyed in one year. How much longer can they hang on and pretend that they want to run an airline when their actions indicate exactly the opposite? When they sold out to a private equity company I knew it was the beginning of the end and, unfortunately, I was correct.

I hope evreything is going well for you Prop.

 

[CitationLover]

Wow, were you in the cockpit?? They lost sight of the runway in the flare, after a southwest A/C took off the crossing runway blowing snow across the windscreen. But I guess you know everything right?

I've never put an airplane off the end of a runway.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:

the failure of the flight crew to execute a missed approach when visual cues for the runway were not distinct and identifiable. Contributing to the accident were (1) the crew's decision to descend to the ILS decision height instead of the localizer (glideslope out) minimum descent altitude; (2) the first officer's long landing on a short contaminated runway and the crew's failure to use reverse thrust and braking to their maximum effectiveness; (3) the captain's fatigue, which affected his ability to effectively plan for and monitor the approach and landing; and (4) Shuttle America's failure to administer an attendance policy that permitted flight crewmembers to call in as fatigued without fear of reprisals.

1&2 are the crew's fault, NOT southwest's. 4 shows me what type of operator our company has decided to outsource our flying too and what Cmdr. Kaley talked about in his letter to the editor.

All I have to say is karma's a bitch..... I bet you were the FO on a flight I saw landing in SRQ a couple years ago, it was the worst landing I've ever seen in my life. I didn't realize that a md80 could bounce at least 20' in the air after touchdown.

Didn't fly the md80, sorry.

 

[RobCat]

I forgot Republic has a marketing department, sells its own tickets, etc..........

I hope you are a better pilot than you are a business man. 1. RAH has a marketing department thats how you know who we are, what products your company need, as well as what certificate to put it on. 2. We sell tickets, if you haven't noticed your company bought them. ie ALL OF THEM.

Please stop playing business and get back in the cockpit and do your job to the best of your ability. If you want to continue with the business track I would advise you to pick up a few books before you venture out.

 

[RobCat]

As for my RAH brothas. Its time for us to Pro-up, ie.. turn pro. Stop feeding into this crap. This isn't good for any pilot group to get into these raindeer games. Before you post your thoughts, our memos, or internal business on open message boards please think to yourselves "What good can come out of this?"

 

[RobCat]

deleted

 

[CitationLover]

As for my RAH brothas. Its time for us to Pro-up, ie.. turn pro. Stop feeding into this crap. This isn't good for any pilot group to get into these raindeer games. Before you post your thoughts, our memos, or internal business on open message boards please think to yourselves "What good can come out of this?"

Hey "brothas" keep trying to steal DAL's narrowbody domestic market. You're shooting yourself in the foot.

I can see RobCat is happy to be stealing mainline flying and wants to stay at Republic for the rest of his career.

 

[RobCat]

Hey "brothas" keep trying to steal DAL's narrowbody domestic market. You're shooting yourself in the foot.

I can see RobCat is happy to be stealing mainline flying and wants to stay at Republic for the rest of his career.

As far stealing flying Im sorry but that was a business decision that management and the mec has made. I guess you would not understand that. Its nothing more than a business.

Staying at RAH for the rest of career may be an option for me. What do you recommend me leave and go to a company that is changing its business model because it was unsuccessful before, maybe accept a position that they are trying to eliminate. That would not be smart now would it? As they say on Jeopardy "Ill take no for 200 Alex". I may just consider staying where Im at. My QOL is allowing and family and our other business do quite well.

While on your time off why dont you go and find something else that your good at. As I can see business isn't your cup of tea. Your attitude and short sited way of thinking will limit you in the business world. Your use of scare tactic are weak so being a Goon isnt in your cards eaither. You really need to stop at I'm beginning to question your ability to perform as a viable crew member.

I like to consider all fellow aviators my "Brothas" and a few of you "Sistas". If any of you find any offence in this please let me know. I guess that is another thread.

My apology to all the current and furlough pilots thats reading this. Especially those at my current and former company. I know I'm better than this....

 

[Moustache]

As for my RAH brothas. Its time for us to Pro-up, ie.. turn pro. Stop feeding into this crap. This isn't good for any pilot group to get into these raindeer games.

Are there also snow and mistdeer?

 

[Moustache]

If you want to continue with the business track I would advise you to pick up a few books before you venture out.

I would recommend childrens Christmas books for you.

 

[RobCat]

I would recommend childrens Christmas books for you.

Been there and done that. Your memory have surved you well....

 

[eightdriver]

What gets me is that when SKYWAY was losing their jobs to skywest. The Midex pilots said they would be behind them.... HOW DID THAT WORK OUT?
Even though skyway was a "connection" carrier they were still an owen division of the airline. But who gave a ******************** about them?
Karma is a biatch.

And also to all the midwest guys that write about regionals in the newspapers, saying they are unsafe.

Remember midwest too had a crash that was "pilot error".

Everyone just needs to grow up, cut this blame game crap out and stand behind one another!

No... Thats accident was the result of an uncontained compressor turbine failure that schredded all the cables to the associated side elevator.

There was nothing the flight crew could have done to save the aircraft being that it happened below 1000ft AGL.....Get your facts straight A$$HOLE.

And compared to Repubelick, Midwest was a legacy carrier... 8

 

[jravi8tor]

No... Thats accident was the result of an uncontained compressor turbine failure that schredded all the cables to the associated side elevator.

There was nothing the flight crew could have done to save the aircraft being that it happened below 1000ft AGL.....Get your facts straight A$$HOLE.

And compared to Repubelick, Midwest was a legacy carrier... 8

I realize your anger towards Republic Airways, hell even I'm pissed too as a furloughed 717 F/O, but in no way shape or form were we a legacy; we weren't even a major and TH even publicly announced he had no intentions of achieving the $1 billion number. $450 million in a good year was all his bean counters could ask for. We were nothing more than a national carrier and the same for Republic.

 

[eightdriver]

I realize your anger towards Republic Airways, hell even I'm pissed too as a furloughed 717 F/O, but in no way shape or form were we a legacy; we weren't even a major and TH even publicly announced he had no intentions of achieving the $1 billion number. $450 million in a good year was all his bean counters could ask for. We were nothing more than a national carrier and the same for Republic.

I meant a legacy in respect to pay/equipment/quality of life/ etc...

 

[jravi8tor]

I meant a legacy in respect to pay/equipment/quality of life/ etc...

my apoligies, i took the post at face value.

 

[eightdriver]

Maybe you should get your facts straight....

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19850906-0



Last I checked almost every major has killed someone due to pilot error.

And that is what the FAA uses as the default answer to an inconclusive investigation.

The fact is that while climbing at V2+10 or 165knots, the rate of deceleration to 156 or stall speed was too rapid for the crew/engines to resond no matter who was flying. That combined with the loss of pitch authority from the partially severed/damaged flight controls made it impossible to fly out of. So instead of grounding the entire DC9-10/30 fleet they chose to use the default pilot error ruling. Our pilot group and ALPA have fought with the feds for years regarding the inaccuracy of this particular investigation...

So like I said...get your facts straight.

 

[CitationLover]

And that is what the FAA uses as the default answer to an inconclusive investigation.

The fact is that while climbing at V2+10 or 165knots, the rate of deceleration to 156 or stall speed was too rapid for the crew/engines to resond no matter who was flying. That combined with the loss of pitch authority from the partially severed/damaged flight controls made it impossible to fly out of. So instead of grounding the entire DC9-10/30 fleet they chose to use the default pilot error ruling. Our pilot group and ALPA have fought with the feds for years regarding the inaccuracy of this particular investigation...

So like I said...get your facts straight.

Even TH, to his credit, went to bat with the FAA for the deceased crew.

But again, the accident the republic schmo mentions, happened in 1985. Was he even born then?

Those classy 170 pilots with their guppy killer stickers on their flight bags.

 

[Donsa320]

And that is what the FAA uses as the default answer to an inconclusive investigation.

The fact is that while climbing at V2+10 or 165knots, the rate of deceleration to 156 or stall speed was too rapid for the crew/engines to resond no matter who was flying. That combined with the loss of pitch authority from the partially severed/damaged flight controls made it impossible to fly out of. So instead of grounding the entire DC9-10/30 fleet they chose to use the default pilot error ruling. Our pilot group and ALPA have fought with the feds for years regarding the inaccuracy of this particular investigation...]

That is an interesting take on that old accidednt. I was sent to the public hearing as an ALPA observer only, since MEH was not ALPA at the time. At that time the gist of the investigation was why did a huge side slip angle develope late in the accident sequence. It semed that either the crew swapped rudder input and applied full right rudder after correctly having applied left rudder during rotation. That question was never answered other than the NTSB guessing that the crew did it. The compressor parts had penetrated and broken through the compressor case at high velocity. Pratt and Whitney mantained that all the parts went to the right of the tail. Yet parts were found on the LEFT side of the take-off runway, 19R. Pratt said that the parts flew so high up that the strong west wind blew them over to the left side of the runway. And yet there were holes in the vertical stabilizer with traces of ferrous metal on them. The only ferrous metal flying around back there were engine parts. I felt that perhaps the rudder control package was what was damaged. None of that was persued by the board. ALPA Safety had no voice at the hearing.
The fact that the engine overhaul agency in MIA had installed an obsolete style spacer which then failed seemed to be more important.
Loss of elevator control authority was not a consideration back then so I cannot comment on that but rudder reversal was a factor. The yaw angle became so great so fast that the left engine compressor stalled so violently that it self-destructed before the airplane hit the ground.

 

[Wesb737fo]

Even TH, to his credit, went to bat with the FAA for the deceased crew.

But again, the accident the republic schmo mentions, happened in 1985. Was he even born then?

Those classy 170 pilots with their guppy killer stickers on their flight bags.

For real!.....guys have guppy killer stickers on their flight bags? I haven't seen this. Seriously low class. If you have this on your flight bag, I wouldn't advertise it....especially if you want a ride somewhere.

 

[donkeykong]

For real!.....guys have guppy killer stickers on their flight bags? I haven't seen this. Seriously low class. If you have this on your flight bag, I wouldn't advertise it....especially if you want a ride somewhere.

There was an RAH guy on this website that had an avatar that was basically a picture of an E170 in Midwest colors. Underneath the picture it read "Mad Dog Killer."

I can't remember his name. I think he's since removed it. But some of these guys just don't see the big picture.

He may as well have it read "Mainline Job Killer"

 

[dh2981]

deleted

 

[MCOE175]

And that is what the FAA uses as the default answer to an inconclusive investigation.

The fact is that while climbing at V2+10 or 165knots, the rate of deceleration to 156 or stall speed was too rapid for the crew/engines to resond no matter who was flying. That combined with the loss of pitch authority from the partially severed/damaged flight controls made it impossible to fly out of. So instead of grounding the entire DC9-10/30 fleet they chose to use the default pilot error ruling. Our pilot group and ALPA have fought with the feds for years regarding the inaccuracy of this particular investigation...

So like I said...get your facts straight.

Can you tell me what it was like being on this plane when it happened...
Funny thing... I don't see anything mentioning you in the investigation!

HMMMM...

I am sorry, you are right.

 

[Colonel Savage]

There was an RAH guy on this website that had an avatar that was basically a picture of an E170 in Midwest colors. Underneath the picture it read "Mad Dog Killer."

I can't remember his name. I think he's since removed it. But some of these guys just don't see the big picture.

He may as well have it read "Mainline Job Killer"

That would be McNugget, aka McButtNugget, a Total Tool. One of those who takes pleasure in cutting the throat of his own career expectations.

Stupid is as stupid does.

 

[FSIGRAD]

For real!.....guys have guppy killer stickers on their flight bags? I haven't seen this. Seriously low class. If you have this on your flight bag, I wouldn't advertise it....especially if you want a ride somewhere.

This "guppy killer" sticker thing is an urban myth. I have flown with hundreds of crews and never seen one.

 

[jravi8tor]

This "guppy killer" sticker thing is an urban myth. I have flown with hundreds of crews and never seen one.

I've actually seen them; it's been a few years know, but when going through O'hare when RAH started doing UAL feed there were a few pilots that displayed these stickers on their bags in distaste!

 

[FSIGRAD]

I've actually seen them; it's been a few years know, but when going through O'hare when RAH started doing UAL feed there were a few pilots that displayed these stickers on their bags in distaste!

Okay an actual eyewitness sighting. What does this sticker look like? A guppie with a slash thru it, (ala ghostbusters) Just the phrase "guppie killer" or is E-170 in the design also. I'm really just curious I have never seen or heard of this from anyone at RAH.

 

[jravi8tor]

Okay an actual eyewitness sighting. What does this sticker look like? A guppie with a slash thru it, (ala ghostbusters) Just the phrase "guppie killer" or is E-170 in the design also. I'm really just curious I have never seen or heard of this from anyone at RAH.

If memory serves it was an E-170 with Guppy above the picture and the word Killer below.

 

[cheeseheadcrj]

If memory serves it was an E-170 with Guppy above the picture and the word Killer below.

Thats the way I remember it as well, very poor taste by those who had them.

 

[Scapegoat]

I have seen the stickers at ORD too.
The fact of the matter is that the E-170 is a Guppy Killer. Strictly speaking airplane vs airplane. It can offer more frequency in a comfortable mainline cabin operating at a much reduced cost, (labor included).

Does it take mainline jobs? I suppose yes, but nothing is stopping United Mainline from operating these aircraft other than labor costs. Same with Midwest. The UA or MidEX pilots are not going to fly it for $80 something an hour so what happens next? They contract the work out.
Operating costs killed the 737 for United. You cant have 2 midsize aircraft, (737 & A320), and be cost competitive in this market. They had 5 different types operating, (still do). Can you imagine the sim costs after a 747 retiree after everyone else moves up? It has to be huge!

However, should the pilots that fly these E170's watch what they say.....You bet. But the very provoking nature of this message board (and industry), will always over power common sense.

Good luck to MidEx'ers. Dont know what will happen in the next couple of years but a consolidation or merger seems to be the way to go if you want to hang on. SG.

 

[hockeypilot44]

I have seen the stickers at ORD too.
The fact of the matter is that the E-170 is a Guppy Killer. Strictly speaking airplane vs airplane. It can offer more frequency in a comfortable mainline cabin operating at a much reduced cost, (labor included).

Does it take mainline jobs? I suppose yes, but nothing is stopping United Mainline from operating these aircraft other than labor costs. Same with Midwest. The UA or MidEX pilots are not going to fly it for $80 something an hour so what happens next? They contract the work out.
Operating costs killed the 737 for United. You cant have 2 midsize aircraft, (737 & A320), and be cost competitive in this market. They had 5 different types operating, (still do). Can you imagine the sim costs after a 747 retiree after everyone else moves up? It has to be huge!

However, should the pilots that fly these E170's watch what they say.....You bet. But the very provoking nature of this message board (and industry), will always over power common sense.

Good luck to MidEx'ers. Dont know what will happen in the next couple of years but a consolidation or merger seems to be the way to go if you want to hang on. SG.

Why can't mainline fly these aircraft and pay its pilots what it pays to fly a DC-9 or 717? They're all about the same size. Why do the pilots have to make so little? Regional pilots are so used to being broke that $80/hour for a captain seems like a lot of money. The first officers only see the left seat. They don't care that they are making poverty wages because they think that left seat is around the corner. You think mainline pilots are selfish because we want to fly the same aircraft for twice as much. Management loves it that we fight with each other instead of with them. They use us against each other.

 

[FSIGRAD]

I'm on the lookout for one of these stickers. I'll be the first to admit it's in bad taste if I do find one.