mesaba flow up and down

[Occam's Razor]

FYI, the Eagan DQ is not hiring, but is accepting resumes. The manager says the DQ in the Phillips neighborhood Minneapolis has cashier positions available, and no experience required.

Cool! Any word on schedules, pay, and QOL?

 

[Monster Buck]

The Mesaba MEC will not have the ability to stop the deal from happening.

I thought about ten pages of educating you on our contract but instead I will make it simple. YOU WRONG! There will be no adjustments to our seniority list, EVER, unless the OUR MEC approves it.:uzi:

 

[NuGuy]

Cool! Any word on schedules, pay, and QOL?

None of the above are all that good, and the soft serve machine is PFT!

They've really lowered the bar for Legacy Ice Cream stands everywhere...

Nu

 

[N2264J]

To repeat: Only if the Northwest MEC determines the deliveries to Mesaba should be scuttled.

Think about that. (I won't spell it out on this Forum)

It might be in Northwest pilot's best interests to see those hulls at Mesaba instead of elsewhere.

'Nuff said.

You make it sound like Mesaba members are being whipsawed by ALPA using the CL-900s and the promise of a few seats at mainline someday as bait to secure furlough protection for the mainliners. Hedging your bets if Compass is sold?

I think it's fundamentally wrong for ALPA members to negotiate provisions that make the junior pilots of their sister airline your furlough fodder.

If the Mesaba pilots balk, you just move on to Big Sky or Pinnacle with the deal and like management, you know you only need 50% plus 1 to pull this off.

I guess the NWA MEC isn't going to be filing that PID anytime soon.

 

[Occam's Razor]

You make it sound like Mesaba members are being whipsawed by ALPA using the CL-900s and the promise of a few seats at mainline someday as bait to secure furlough protection for the mainliners. Hedging your bets if Compass is sold?

Huh? Talk about reverse sensing! Your irrepressible cynicism is noted. No wonder your puppy wouldn't play with you.

I think it's fundamentally wrong for ALPA members to negotiate provisions that make the junior pilots of their sister airline your furlough fodder.

Noted, without surprise. I think it's fundamentally right for a mainline MEC to assist in obtaining something that is valued by an Airlink MEC. I agree with you 100% that you see it differently...and for that, I am profoundly grateful. I hope I never view improvements and opportunites for my Airlink brothers through the same bile-colored prism you seem to use.

I guess the NWA MEC isn't going to be filing that PID anytime soon.

You might be right. Time to send another check to your lawyer!

 

[N2264J]

I think it's fundamentally right for a mainline MEC to assist in obtaining something that is valued by an Airlink MEC.

If I'm understanding this so far - if Mesaba votes down the flow through, they lose the
CL-900s. How is that not whipsaw by their own union?

I hope I never view improvements and opportunites for my Airlink brothers through the same bile-colored prism you seem to use.

You want to talk about a bile-colored prism, ask an Eagle pilot about their flow through to American. We have a number of Eagle pilots at Comair now.

 

[Occam's Razor]

If I'm understanding this so far - if Mesaba votes down the flow through, they lose the
CL-900s. How is that not whipsaw by their own union?

Your understanding if incorrect, that's how.

How the Mesaba MEC rules on the issue of the flow thru has no impact on the status of the -900's. The status of those jets depends on how the Northwest MEC would respond to a "veto" by the Mesaba MEC. As I posted earlier, it might be in their strategic interests to quash the grievance with the flow thru in abeyance.

You want to talk about a bile-colored prism, ask an Eagle pilot about their flow through to American.

I read on the internet that the Mesaba/Northwest flow thru was done by parties other than American and Eagle. Can you confirm? Rumor has it the deal is structured differently.

We have a number of Eagle pilots at Comair now.

We have a number of Eagle pilots at Northwest too. Do you have a point?

 

[PCL_128]

I read on the internet that the Mesaba/Northwest flow thru was done by parties other than American and Eagle.

Occam, you must not have gotten the memo: the only accurate source of information on all matters aviation is the RJDC website. You should know better by now.

Do you have a point?

He usually doesn't, but that's never stopped him before.

 

[N2264J]

How the Mesaba MEC rules on the issue of the flow thru has no impact on the status of the -900's. The status of those jets depends on how the Northwest MEC would respond to a "veto" by the Mesaba MEC.

Can you explain how these two sentences aren't contradictory? Whether those CL-65-900s go to Mesaba or not depends on Mesaba taking the flow through - yes? ALPA is therefore whipsawing Mesaba pilots with airframes to get furlough protection for the mainliners.

We have a number of Eagle pilots at Northwest too. Do you have a point?

The point is that those Eagle pilots at Northwest and Comair aren't at American and they're not waiting to flow to American.

Back in the day when Eagle and Continental Express both had flow through agreements, their attrition rates were greater than that of Comair. If flow through is the career advancement vehicle you want us to believe it is, how do you account for that?

Turning junior pilots at another airline into your furlough fodder by witholding flying if they don't acquiesce has no place in a union. In other words, when mainline MECs conspire with management and start deriving a perceived benefit from alter egos, it's over - the union is mortally wounded.

 

[N2264J]

I read on the internet that the Mesaba/Northwest flow thru was done by parties other than American and Eagle. Can you confirm?

Both negotiated by ALPA.

 

[xjgearbtch]

2264J why do you care? Take your attitude elsewhere. We'll make it work, your potshots from the cheapseats do nothing productive. But I bet you feel so good expressing your emotions... right.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Can you explain how these two sentences aren't contradictory?

Yes...but thankfully, I don't have too. Everybody but you understands them.

Whether those CL-65-900s go to Mesaba or not depends on Mesaba taking the flow through - yes?

No. As I've posted...no. NO, nein, nyet, non, no, no, no, no.

Got it?

If Mesaba rejects the flow thru...the flow thru dies. At that point, the Northwest MEC must decide whether or not the remaining elements of the deal are "go" or "no go".

ALPA is therefore whipsawing Mesaba pilots with airframes to get furlough protection for the mainliners.

Nice try! The flow thru was negotiated over a year ago as part of the Compass arrangement. If your "furlough protection" motive was accurate, then it was done 14-months ago...and not required as part of this Mesaba deal.

The point is that those Eagle pilots at Northwest and Comair aren't at American and they're not waiting to flow to American.

Wait! You're telling me Eagle pilots had a choice? They were given options?

The horror!

How cruel of ALPA to be a party to an agreement that provided affiliated pilots a potential career pipeline!

Back in the day when Eagle and Continental Express both had flow through agreements, their attrition rates were greater than that of Comair. If flow through is the career advancement vehicle you want us to believe it is, how do you account for that?

"the career advancement vehicle"? Who said that? It's an option. A choice. An opportunity.

If you'll guarantee the future of the industry for the next several years and I'll give a value for it. Since you can't do that, I think it was a good idea for the Northwest MEC to insist on the option for Mesaba pilots.

From my understanding of the language, Mesaba pilots will not be kidnapped and pressed into service at the mainline as part of the flow thru. They'll actually have the option to decline and seek employment at Comair.

Turning junior pilots at another airline into your furlough fodder by witholding flying if they don't acquiesce has no place in a union. In other words, when mainline MECs conspire with management and start deriving a perceived benefit from alter egos, it's over - the union is mortally wounded.

Spare me! Your fundamental premise is wrong, hence your entire thesis.

Nobody is our "furlough fodder". Rejection of the flow thru doesn't preclude new jets at Mesaba. You're clueless.

All three of those statements are accurate and correct.

 

[FSIGRAD]

I know of a number of flow downs, but has a pilot ever flown up in the history of aviation?

 

[jetflier]

From what I understand there has been about one flowup in history that ever worked.

Do the current NWA furloughs go to XJ and Compass, or just Compass?

Pan/Pan Express flow through worked. 3 per month would flow up to mainline while Pan Am was hiring.
This was from Pan Am aquiring Ransome Airlines and initially was going to fly 727 on the Pan Am Shuttle.
Flight Engineers union FEIA rejected this which would have prevented their movement up into a pilots seat.
The Pan Am MEC agreed to then allow a flow through agreement with Ransome pilots. Pan Am had not hired for 20 years, and the Ransome, now Pan Am Express pilots, flowed over to Pan Am with the seniority of 20 years.
Some Ransome pilots went into the right seat of the 747. I personally know of one guy so young (26)to be typed in the 747 that the FA's said that they felt they had a need to nurse him!

The flow through agreement can work, if its done correctly, I'm not sure that the NWA MEC has done that, we'll see...

 

[PCL_128]

I know of a number of flow downs, but has a pilot ever flown up in the history of aviation?

Plenty of pilots flowed up to American and Continental from Eagle and CoEx.