Mesaba Big Announcement on Friday

[de Pez]

Mesaba/Chicago Express union!!? Ahh, very insightful Grasshopper...

Remove all other possibilities, and what remains is the truth..

 

[Terry Hunter]

Dude, put down the keyboard and go watch some porn or Ashlee Simpson on MTV.

We are tired of hearing your same old b.s. I'm sure some f/o on IOE knows the whole plan. Go play somewhere else....

Now that's friggin hilarious.

 

[Fly4hire]

Not sure what's up, but I know what is NOT - I can say with certainty the NWA MEC has no knowledge of the MSA MEC meeting topic and there is/was no discussion of anyone other than NWA doing 70 seat and above flying. I spoke to one of the NWA MEC negotiators, and they are absolutely committed to NWA pilots doing the 70 seat flying. So we can put that one to rest.

I sincerely hope the topic is something good for the MSA pilots. I can think of a number of possibilities from the Chicago Express certificate to getting some the CRJ's ear marked for PCL flight academy......

 

[dbrownie]

Homer's baiting you guys....
I'm not looking at this thread again until the union or company tells me why our boys were pulled off line to chat with each other.
I hope it's a good thing for all involved.

I aggree the last time that happened to me, ALG dumped all a/c execpt the DASH-8 and I was laid off for a year and a half. Let's hope it is good news for all of us.

Dave B

 

[saabingitagain]

Insider dumping?

Anybody checked out how many shares Spandex and Polad et al. have unloaded over the last few weeks? Rats off a sinking ship or just re-allocating our... errr... I mean their hard earned $$?

 

[mesaba2425]

Anybody checked out how many shares Spandex and Polad et al. have unloaded over the last few weeks? Rats off a sinking ship or just re-allocating our... errr... I mean their hard earned $$?

There hasn't been too much action: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/it?s=MAIR

 

[nwaredtail]

Word around NWA is that the Avro's will be returned to the leasor next year (there is a reason they have not be painted the new livery) and NWA wants to be able to give 36 70seaters to Pinnacle. Pinnacles crew costs are a lot lower than Mesaba, so this will help "the company". The company is selling this to the NWA MEC as "we already have 36 70 seaters, so why do you care who flys them?" NWA also wants to get convert the remaining CRJ options to Q-400 turbo props. I am assuming those would be offered to the lowest bidder or Horizon, since they already fly them.

NWA is also close to signing with Skywest to be the "3rd" regional carrier allowed in the latest TA with NWA ALPA. NWA is not happy with Pinnacle's performance and wants to spread the wealth.

Announcement is supposed to be later in the week. we will see.

 

[dollacrackho]

i heard the big announcement will happen this wednesday at midnight and will happen under a bridge in prague. specifics of the deal are not out yet but i've got two words for you "fish nuetering"

 

[Fly4hire]

nwaredtail,

I could believe all of the above except for the NWA MEC granting any relief for anyone to fly another 70 seater in lieu of the grand fathered AVRO's.

Again, I have spoken to several folks on the MEC, including negotiators, and (nothing different than many times stated position), once those ARJ's go, they are not being replaced with a different 70 seater.

All future flying of 70 seaters will be done by NWA pilots, or with flow up from the 2 feeders if it goes insufficient bidders.

I'm not trying to rain on anyones parade, but the recurring rumors over PCL or MSA getting the 70 seater are wishful thinking. Of course managements at both feeders like to propagate this one to crank up the whipsaw factor.

Pilots at NWA realize it may well mean flying these acft at industry standard rates, with all that implies. I also think that NWA is looking at the ERJ-170 series, that goes from 70 all the way to 110 seats with a realistic cabin. If our MEC were to ever allow this airframe at either feeder, we may as well just give them all the DC9 flying. It's not going to happen.

Some have suggested that this is the trade for saving the pension. Try another vector: this may be the bone the junior pilots get thrown to make the hard pension choices, which are very difficult indeed, somewhat more palatable by way of added job security.

May we live in interesting times.

 

[nwaredtail]

Fly4hire, I agree with you. This is just what I heard. The pension for small aircraft talk is silly. the pension is dead as we know it regardless of small jets.

 

[DoinTime]

Again, I have spoken to several folks on the MEC, including negotiators, and (nothing different than many times stated position), once those ARJ's go, they are not being replaced with a different 70 seater.

I seem to remember the CoEx MEC insisting on $100 @ 5 not to long ago. We all know that didn't pan out. What MEC's say and what MEC's do are two entirely different things. Time will tell.

 

[flyswatter]

From what I heard today, that may not be so far from the truth. Except it will be Mesaba, Pinnacle, and Champion to fly 70-seaters under a new company and then those people get NWA seniority numbers.

Yeah the new cert is from the sale of C* giving NWA a presence at MDW to increase growth across the midwest.

 

[Fly4hire]

Very possible. Regardless of added flying under a new brand or certificate, Scope restrictions per the current CBA still apply. It's designed so it cannot just be sidestepped.

Of course another operation, not flying NWA code, with their own aircraft (means all current CRJ/ARJ's excluded) would be free to pursue whatever flying with whatever code they can scrounge.

In any case, here's hoping it's good news for MSA. Hasn't been enough of that going around lately.

 

[Mel Sharples]

Word around NWA is that the Avro's will be returned to the leasor next year (there is a reason they have not be painted the new livery) and NWA wants to be able to give 36 70seaters to Pinnacle. Pinnacles crew costs are a lot lower than Mesaba, so this will help "the company". The company is selling this to the NWA MEC as "we already have 36 70 seaters, so why do you care who flys them?" NWA also wants to get convert the remaining CRJ options to Q-400 turbo props. I am assuming those would be offered to the lowest bidder or Horizon, since they already fly them.

NWA is also close to signing with Skywest to be the "3rd" regional carrier allowed in the latest TA with NWA ALPA. NWA is not happy with Pinnacle's performance and wants to spread the wealth.

Announcement is supposed to be later in the week. we will see.

What a total load of b.s.

You even contradict yourself. Let's see... NWA is so mad at Pinnacle that they are going to sign SkyWest and then give 70 seaters to Pinnacle?

Nice logic, chief.

 

[Terry Hunter]

Interesting

Okay, so here's what we know:
1. The parties we can confirm are: Mesaba Mgmt & MSA ALPA.
2. The parties NOT involved are: NWA ALPA.

We know that the C8 certificate is sold; to whom we don't know.

We know that this is not about 70 seaters - ref. #2 above.

We know that this news is better than worse for Mesaba pilots. (Most will like it, some will not).

It could be:
1. the allotment of the remaining Pinnacle CRJ's - but why would secret meetings be needed for that - the pay scale is already set.
2. an infusion of Q400's since the Saab is getting quickly obsolete due to weight and balance no.'s, not to mention durability (106 for xjers).

Why does XJ need to buy C8's certificate - why not use the Big Sky cert? Is that also bound to only NWA flying?

My thought: MAIR or NWA is buying C8's cert. (maybe along with Champion) to start a new low-fare airline out of Indy and MDW as a code share with NWA to fight SWA. MAIR has to use Mesaba pilots due to scope. Champion could partner for extra capital and assets?

Hmmm... please interject your thoughts - I may not be seeing some obstacles.

 

[Mesabi Miner]

Let's go hear it from the ones that won't talk.

I'm not a die-hard unionizer, but there are LEC meetings "hub-wide" today. Perhaps we should all go and use some non-Geneva Convention tactics to get 'em to talk... Kidding of course, but these meetings may be interesting. XJers, check your email for times and locations. No, wait a minute... All I was interested in was the free food.

MM

 

[DoinTime]

2. an infusion of Q400's since the Saab is getting quickly obsolete due to weight and balance no.'s, not to mention durability (106 for xjers).

Q400's are not allowed under current NW pilot scope.

 

[T-handle]

It's amazing what a "secret meeting" can do. A thread 12 pages, 169 posts, 16,000 hits since Wednesday!!!, a handful of mudslinging.... yet know one has any straight answers. (not that I have any but some of the bickering going on... wow...)

Our union is locked in a hotel. Hopefully they will emerge with good news. Until then, lets see how many more theories and arguments we can produce. cheers...


Anyone go to the local meetings today?

 

[Workin'Stiff]

Gonna be headin' to the DTW meetin' in a little bit... Hopefully, there'll be some news sittin' there while I concentrate myself on the free food!


-W

 

[Mel Sharples]

It could be:
1. the allotment of the remaining Pinnacle CRJ's - but why would secret meetings be needed for that - the pay scale is already set.

True, but maybe they are discussing seat locks to help reduce the training cost. But that is about the only reason I can think of for negotiating the addition of 44-seaters.

Nice post, by the way. I like your logic...

 

[Terry Hunter]

69 seat TP?

Q400's are not allowed under current NW pilot scope.

Okay thanks. There has been some confusion that TP's were exempt from the NWA Scope. Would a 69 seat TP be eligible?

 

[DoinTime]

Okay thanks. There has been some confusion that TP's were exempt from the NWA Scope. Would a 69 seat TP be eligible?

No...59 seats would be ok though.

C. Scope

C.1. Except as provided in Section 1 C.2., Section 1 C.3., Section 1 C.4., Section 1 C.5., Section 1 C.7., Section 1 C.8. and Section 1 C.9. below:

All revenue flying performed by or for the Company and all revenue flying performed by or for any Affiliate (including revenue flying performed by or for the Company or by or for any Affiliate on the Company’s international routes or route authorities and/or on aircraft under the operational control of the Company or an Affiliate) shall be performed by pilots on the Integrated Pilots System Seniority List in accordance with this Agreement, and there shall be no subcontracting of flying to others. The term “revenue flying” includes wet leases, subcontracting that is performed for others, revenue flights and charter flights. The term “Affiliate” means (i) NAC, (ii) any subsidiary, parent or division of the Company or NAC or any subsidiary, parent or division of either a parent or subsidiary of the Company or NAC or (iii) any entity that controls or manages NAC or the Company or is controlled by or managed by NAC or the Company.

C.2. Section 1 C.1. above shall not apply to revenue flying:

C.2.a. Performed for the Company or for any Affiliate, by an airline that at all times operates only aircraft that (i) are certificated with a maximum passenger capacity of less than 60 seats, and (ii) are certificated with a maximum gross takeoff weight of less than 70,000 pounds, or

C.2.b. Performed by an Affiliate that at all times operates only aircraft that (i) are certificated with a maximum passenger capacity of less than 60 seats, and (ii) are certificated with a maximum gross takeoff weight of less than 70,000 pounds.

 

[mesaba2425]

Our union is locked in a hotel.

Everyone knows how well that worked out last time.

 

[flap operator]

NWAredtail... as already mentioned, your logic is flawed. Add this to your pile of $hit - 2 avros are going to the paintshop this month.

No matter how good this issue might be for some people, I'm still skeptical. I'm not a cynical person, but after my MEC lost my trust at the virtual strike debacle last year, I don't expect much from this this time 'round. All I know is that there will be riots if we're asked to give up something, in order to get something.

G*D DAM!NIT JUST TELL US ALREADY!


FO

 

[Workin'Stiff]

Did any of you guys attend the union meetings today???

 

[T-handle]

nope. out of town/HUB..... please tell us there is light at the end of the tunnel!

 

[Workin'Stiff]

I was hoping to hear from one of you guys... Something came up, so I wasn't able to make it...

 

[CubanSmoker]

A friend of mine gave me a call on the way home from the MSP meeting. Apparently it was just a usual B.S. APLA meeting. They admitted that there was a gag order in place and couldn't say anything about the latest buzz.

I hope someone from one of the other bases heard more of a tidbit.

 

[Towelie]

.....

 

[Towelie]

A friend of mine gave me a call on the way home from the MSP meeting. Apparently it was just a usual B.S. APLA meeting. They admitted that there was a gag order in place and couldn't say anything about the latest buzz.

I hope someone from one of the other bases heard more of a tidbit.

Ditto that from the company. A friend of mine is in recurrent this week. Spanjers came in today and didn't speak about any big news. When asked, I guess he acted like there was nothing to talk about.

*sigh*