Mesa

[mckpickle]

OK for the one millionth time.

1. JO could not have shut down MESA. It was just an idle threat. Just because he shut down CC AIR doesnt mean he could shut down the WHOLE company. It was not possible. He is responsible to the shareholders!

2. I dont believe you even tried to get released. And even when one mediator says try again that doesn't mean it cant be done.

3. Had you been released to self help, any and all routes flown by Freedom would have been struck work and scab labor. It was hard enough for JO to get what, 15 planes and 87 guys, imagine the dificulty he would have had then.

4. Just because you are release into self help does NOT mean you have to strike. CAOS would have been as effective.

5. If your mediator was SO pro company, than why didn't anyone sugest binding arbitration? Heck, you would have gotten a better contract had you taken that.

6. You say you got infalible scope. Let me tell you something boys. APA are the sky Nazis, not you. If APA's scope can't hold water then how will yours. Plain and simple, spelled right out. How do you think it will hold up in court. Or bankrupcy court for that matter.

It just blows my mind that you think that by caving in for a crap contract saved your company. I know a bunch of CAL guys who think that they saved the company once upon a time.

Let me just sum it up as to why we are pi$$ed. When an organization agrees to work for substanially less money and work rules than that organization has the ability to undercut the rest of the industry. Mark my words, it the next 5 years you will double in size. So where is that flying going to come from, ACA, COEX, Comair,ASA? Now where will our pilots be. On the street, no/little forward movement. Blaming you guys for what happens in the industry is appropriate. How many regionals have come to their pilots and said,"sorry guys but Mesa can undercut us, so the only way to stay competitve is lower wages, fulrough, cut work rules ect." You get the idea. Race to the bottom.

So ya we're pi$$ed. You blame this on the economy of the nation, yet the cost structure of regionals means they are the only ones making money. Of course Mesa is making alot more that anyone else now due to that POS contract. Bottom line, you guys caved. You didnt even try. You gave up because you are a weak pilot group. If not for that then for what? That is why no one I know will ever,"make the numbers work" to get a MESA guy on. That is why you will get disrespected, laughed at and treated like the red headed step children you are. I hope you all enjoy being JO BEOTCH for the next 5 years. You have the power to stop him, the least you could have done was to try.

Let me tell you one more thing about leverage. At COEX we dont even own any airplanes. CAL does. If we have a decrease in performance numbers or a job action (by any employee group), CAL can take the aircraft away,AND use our training center for 6 months. Our agreement with CAL expires in 2007, and after that the future is unsure. Tell me, who had/has more leverage? So when we get a CRAP contract that looks like yours I guess we'll be the weak ones hu?

No wait, the pilots I know would rather see the comany go to shat than to prostitute themselves as slaves.

 

[Jetsnake]

I've read almost all these threads.
The one question in which seems to amaze
me is, this,

Why didn't your MEC(MESA) attempt to confide
in other MEC's within ALPA. From what I understand
at the last big meeting with ALPA he was more
interested in his status position running for a
representatives office outside your own union rather
than working with others for his own pilot group.

"HELLO".
While I don't know your MEC, I can say this.
You pilots of MESA can and have the right to recall
elected members to all position's. Put someone in there
that you feel comfortable with, and as far as the the NMB.
Join together and file suit to have this "Knob Lips"
removed. (THE NMB)(And then your MEC).

Rather than ridicule as to how this can be done.
There are pilots within your union that know this is
possible. Obviously lack of support from the main body
of ALPA(Surprise). Someone in your group needs to contact the
(ALPA)legal department and document everthing in which has
transpired not only with the NMB, but with your MEC and
his doing's; along with ALPA.

This will in fact have to be done by an attonery with union
knowledge outside of ALPA. There are many good attonery's
within ALPA, but you are faced with this, They really can't be bias.
This shouldn't be hard for a good attonery to determine who
can look at your case as far a judge or mediator is concerned.

The MESA pilot group is faced with accepting there contract as is for now. As I understand, it passed with a 70-75% yes vote.
Doesn't matter what percentage.

What I do understand is that you were basically informed
that unless this contract was signed, your company would
close the doors and you all would be out job's.
That in it self is, intimidation by conflict. Your a publicly held
company for God's sake. Do you really think that would happen.

The only reason JO is still in charge is because he has put the
fear of God in you losing your jobs and has managed to B.S.
thousands of people. Put the fear into him.
Not only hire an attonery(LAW FIRM), but a great corporate
CPA and go through what he consider's what is losing money
and what is making money. This is what your MEC should have
been on top of from the get go.

If not, and your received nothing to the effect in either a union
letter or through phone msg's on an update board.

It's time for a change, not only make it; change history...
You can do it....

Jetsnake

 

[got_jumpseat?]

You know what, I am sick and tired of hearing that Sept 11 is the cause of all of this. The fact of the matter is it is not... Do some research into history young man!! You may find that airlines, historically only have two good years per decade, the yr 2000 marked five and that was really unheard of since the jet boom of the sixties. Research and hit me later with what you find.

WD.

Dont preach to me about the airlines. My father started and operated an airline sucessfully in the early 80's. The airline would be mine now all other things the same in a parallell universe I could have been your boss. My family has been around aviation since it all began. I dont have to research anything. When you were scratching your brain (like digging for gold) in airline industry class my family was moving metal.

My points are simply this. Airline industry ASIDE. You and a few other jaw runners on this board are plain stupid. You bitch about what Mesa does while ignoring your own house. #1 rule in success dont worry about what the guy next to you is doing worry about yourself.

 

[got_jumpseat?]

Let me tell you one more thing about leverage. At COEX we dont even own any airplanes. CAL does. If we have a decrease in performance numbers or a job action (by any employee group), CAL can take the aircraft away,AND use our training center for 6 months. Our agreement with CAL expires in 2007, and after that the future is unsure. Tell me, who had/has more leverage? So when we get a CRAP contract that looks like yours I guess we'll be the weak ones hu?

Is this the real reason you are pissed? I think we have a winner! Hey I wish you guys luck, hopefully the anticpated turnaround is in effect. Then you can show us how its done.

 

[mckpickle]

Is this the real reason you are pissed? I think we have a winner! Hey I wish you guys luck, hopefully the anticpated turnaround is in effect. Then you can show us how its done.

Hey CRACK HEAD, why are you stillllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll talking?

DIPSH1T, Yes its why I'm pi$$ed. One of the many reasons. Because as I stated you can undercut the crap out of anyone. And at some point it becomes a saftey issue. When you agree to fly 16 hours a day with one day off then do it all over again next week. I cant do that, I'm not a whipper snapper anymore and it is not safe to work under those workrules.

Oh ya I'm also pi$$ed because your so FUC&ing stupid!

 

[got_jumpseat?]

I've read almost all these threads.
The one question in which seems to amaze
me is, this, .................

The only reason JO is still in charge is because he has put the
fear of God in you losing your jobs and has managed to B.S.
thousands of people. Put the fear into him.
Not only hire an attonery(LAW FIRM), but a great corporate
CPA and go through what he consider's what is losing money
and what is making money. This is what your MEC should have
been on top of from the get go.

If not, and your received nothing to the effect in either a union
letter or through phone msg's on an update board.

It's time for a change, not only make it; change history...
You can do it....

Jetsnake

I appreciate your post, it is easy to see where we went wrong. This is armchair quaterbacking though. What do they say, hindsight is 20/20? There are many things we did wrong and could have done different but I wont be here for the next round. Maybe in 4.5 years there will be wiser people in the Mesa MEC and they can fix things up. Good luck Mesa, I am checking off this board. I refuse to argue with idiots. They will be happy they can have free run of the insane asylum now. I said my peace. Adios Mesa it was fun. I'll remember it my whole life.

 

[got_jumpseat?]

Hey CRACK HEAD, why are you stillllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll talking?

DIPSH1T, Yes its why I'm pi$$ed. One of the many reasons. Because as I stated you can undercut the crap out of anyone. And at some point it becomes a saftey issue. When you agree to fly 16 hours a day with one day off then do it all over again next week. I cant do that, I'm not a whipper snapper anymore and it is not safe to work under those workrules.

Oh ya I'm also pi$$ed because your so FUC&ing stupid!

Whose the crack head? Where do you work? Whose leaving the regionals now? B I T C H! You can be my stu when you get furloughed.

 

[mckpickle]

[i#1 rule in success dont worry about what the guy next to you is doing worry about yourself. [/B]

Hey dill hole, This is why we have a national pilot union. So that no one can intentionally drag the others down. #1 rule in MY house. Don't FU(K your buddy to save your own A$$.

 

[got_jumpseat?]

Hey CRACK HEAD, why are you stillllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll talking?

DIPSH1T, Yes its why I'm pi$$ed. One of the many reasons. Because as I stated you can undercut the crap out of anyone. And at some point it becomes a saftey issue. When you agree to fly 16 hours a day with one day off then do it all over again next week. I cant do that, I'm not a whipper snapper anymore and it is not safe to work under those workrules.

Oh ya I'm also pi$$ed because your so FUC&ing stupid!

Ill tell you something else you can do for me B I T C H.

 

[mckpickle]

Thats it go hang out at the airport and flight instruct. You know what they say, those who cant do, teach.

 

[got_jumpseat?]

Hey dill hole, This is why we have a national pilot union. So that no one can intentionally drag the others down. #1 rule in MY house. Don't FU(K your buddy to save your own A$$.

Oh NOW you refer to ALPA? You got no class. Where is the professionalism? Its too easy for me to get into a pisn contest with you. Goodbye. I got some Boeing books to start studying.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Dont preach to me about the airlines. My father started and operated an airline sucessfully in the early 80's. The airline would be mine now all other things the same in a parallell universe I could have been your boss.

Wow, I had no idea that I was writing to Mr. airline. Tell me one thing, if you daddy runs an airline, why the FUK are you working for mesa? You know I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt because you may not know AIRLINE HISTORY but now I see the whole picture, not only are you ignorant but you're a lier as well. "My daddy has an airline. I won't even embarrass you by asking which one.

WD.

 

[got_jumpseat?]

Wow, I had no idea that I was writing to Mr. airline. Tell me one thing, if you daddy runs an airline, why the FUK are you working for mesa? You know I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt because you may not know AIRLINE HISTORY but now I see the whole picture, not only are you ignorant but you're a lier as well. "My daddy has an airline. I won't even embarrass you by asking which one.

WD.

You dont read much do you. What part of HAD did you miss? BTW Not only do I still work for a living so does my daddy, the airline sale didnt go his way. I would explain but in fear of permanently confusing you I will spare you the details. I paid for my ratings out of my own pocket and got my first real airline job at 33 instread of 23. Now go bark up somebody elses tree.

You are not making it easy for me to drop off the face of your world are you. When you cant win an argument you must make it personal. I will take that as as victory for me in this debate.
Sayonara sucka. Remember if you get furlouged PM you can be my stu. B I T C H.

 

[got_jumpseat?]

I just re read my post, I wasnt clear. I could have specified it was in the past.

 

[got_jumpseat?]

And you can still be my stu bitch.

 

[mckpickle]

I bet your Ornstiens daughter!

 

[Wiskey Driver]

I bet your Ornstiens daughter!

Dammit you took the words out of my mouth, oh well it was said...

WD.

 

[embraerdriver]

hey jetdriven I am not an eagle puke as you call it try again, and where I work I upgraded to EMB CPT in 2yrs4mo. So eat me!!

 

[RJPilott]

IF UNITED HAD CONFIRMED ACA'S CONTRACT NONE OF THIS WOULD BE HAPPENING TODAY!

I dont have a crystal ball, but i would put odds on United confirming our contract alot sooner if Mesa had not put in a low-ball bid due to their low labor costs.

Guys, the Mesa bashing is getting old. They know how we feel. They know they were stuck between a rock and a hard place and took the easy route which may not be so easy in the end. I wish Mesa pilots the best. I think they are going to need it. 99.9% of the pilots i talk to know Mesa messed it up for the rest of us. Lets take the dirty ball they gave us and clean up their mess. Keep it professional, dont start jumpseat wars, be respectful, but definitely dont go out of your way.... That is all...

 

[Beantown]

[
Hey pickle, You kill me with your confidence that you know everything and that it is all so straight forward and simple.

1. JO could not have shut down MESA. It was just an idle threat. Just because he shut down CC AIR doesn't mean he could shut down the WHOLE company. It was not possible. He is responsible to the shareholders!

How do you know it was an idle threat? Please show your proof. It was possible, ALPA did a whole presentation at the road shows explaining how. Of course you weren't there and you know more then the 20 yr ALPA attorney giving the presentation.

2. I dont believe you even tried to get released. And even when one mediator says try again that doesn't mean it cant be done.

I guess if you say they didn't try they must not have tried b/c you know all. Everyone out there, if Pickle speaks you must listen b/c he KNOWS ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3. Had you been released to self help, any and all routes flown by Freedom would have been struck work and scab labor. It was hard enough for JO to get what, 15 planes and 87 guys, imagine the difficulty he would have had then.

Hello, THEY COULDN'T GET RELEASED AND JO KNEW IT. US Airways in BK, America West just out of BK with large loans backed by Bush and Co., wasn't gonna happen. This is not my opinion, this was the opinion of ALPA National. Your union.

4. Just because you are release into self help does NOT mean you have to strike. CAOS would have been as effective.

See above

5. If your mediator was SO pro company, than why didn't anyone suggest binding arbitration? Heck, you would have gotten a better contract had you taken that

Unlike you, I don't know everything about everything and I have no idea why this was not an option.

6. You say you got infalible scope. Let me tell you something boys. APA are the sky Nazis, not you. If APA's scope can't hold water then how will yours. Plain and simple, spelled right out. How do you think it will hold up in court. Or bankrupcy court for that matter.

Lets let time be the test of the scope. BTW, Mesa could have held out , gone on strike and gotten an industry leading contract and that wouldn't matter much in BK court either. Nothing does. Nice try.

Mark my words, it the next 5 years you will double in size. So where is that flying going to come from, ACA, COEX, Comair,ASA?

Maybe the growth will come from US Air and AW just as it was before the new contract. Everyone (well actually it is only 3 people on this board) are in panic mode about this contract and it's negative effects but so far no one has been negativity affected by it. (please don't say ACA b/c Mesa doesn't do any Rj flying for either Untied or Delta) Why don't you three just shut your pie holes until (or if) this thing actually effects you.

No wait, the pilots I know would rather see the comany go to shat than to prostitute themselves as slaves.

Thats all big talk right now. We will see how others deal with the choice of job or pay cut if that time arises. As I look around the industry I see a hell of a lot of pilots voting for the jobs. I remember a few months ago reading the US Airways board how they would strike before they took another round of pay cuts or gave up there pension. Everyone was talking big just like you. Fast forward to today and they did both. Why? To save there jobs. It's a different game when you are actually playing. -Bean