Mesa

[Intruder One]

kevin_P

You know nothing.........try this on for size,you are a 10,12 or 15 yr. capt. at a regional making decent money(CCAir) and now you are bought(MESA) and told you will make 4yr. pay.As a kid you can start over,but as a adult with obligations under your belt this is pretty hard to do.Yes a job is better than nothing,but this is close to nothing.Some will probably have to get second jobs just to survive.This was a fine way for ALPA to treat it's senior brothers and sisters.

 

[SanJuanPlebe]

OK, I'll Bite

The Mesa folks (me) keep getting a beating for our contract.

We took improvements in every section except minimum bid, but we keep getting acused of lowering the bar.

So I'll bite.

Tell me, specifically, without the usual RHETORIC, what would be an acceptable contract in the eyes of Whiskey Driver, and a few of the other most prominent Mesa Bashers.

And, more importantly, tell me how you think we could have achieved it. Again, no BS, no generalizations...please, tell me very specifically and very realistically how you could have done it better? Remember, not just you, you've got to have 1,300 pilots supporting you and keeping things unified.

I'm interested in your responses. Maybe we did screw up....but for those who would criticize us, I ask you to tell us how you would have done it better. But please, consider these facts:


Code share partners in bankruptcy, one with govt. loans
Alter-Ego taking flying on a daily basis, more jets on the horizon, and no shortage of fuc$ing pieces of $hit pilots agreeing to work for them (Freedom)
CCAir shut down, 142 pilots out of work
Mediator not willing to release us for self-help
Wet-lease deal set up for MidAtlantic, others
Economy in the toilet, furloughs at many airlines, including regionals

I'm not trying to justify our vote in any way as I truly believe that's our business, not yours. The common response is that "our managment has complained that Mesa is undercutting us and now we need concessions" and I would offer that according to your own logic, you should be able to "negotiate" whatever you want, regardless of other factors. I mean folks sure have no problem beating Mesa up, yet every condition I posted up above was true....

SO, tell me, in all honesty, how we could have done better? Maybe your advice can help us.....

And again..NO BULL$HIT and NO RHETORIC.....

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Ok San Juan since you did ask for me in your post.

1st. You guys should have never allowed a whipsaw to be used as a bargining tool. I am sure you are aware of the republic deal now, because the mind set is if it worked for mesa it will work for us.

2nd. You should have demanded that ALL FREEDOM PILOTS BE LET GO AS A RESULT OF SIGNING THE CONTRACT. That message alone would have been heard and felt around the world that any pilot willing to work for a company thru an alter ego would be placing his own career at risk.

3rd. Demand what ACA, Skywest and us are earning to fly the same equipment.

4th. Tell USair that there is no super seniority everyone starts at the bottom. When times change again and the hiring starts will you be able to go to USAir with your seniority and make that years pay???? He11 no??

If you don't think that these actions have had an effect on other carriers take a look at the new "lets start an alter ego" game plan. I see that my old company TSA has now been backed into a corner with this J4J super seniority. It's great for furloughed USairways guys but it's not a two way street. When they get called home they ain't going to be taking you with them.

I know that a lot has been said against mesa and that you guys feel that you have made improvments, but what good are they if they are still below industry standard for the same type a/c. I have heard comments from you guys like "it was either this or unemployment" and "am I supposed to lose my job for you guys with good contracts". Remember the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few.

I hope that I answered as you asked, without the BS.

WD.

 

[jetdriven]

JetDriven, you know why no one is bitching about AWA, because they just turned down a B.S. contract proposal. The continue to hold the line for a fair contract even in the face of a poor economy. They choose no to fold like a deck cards, something that you mesa boys have down cold. I know it's hard for you to except what you and the other 78% have done to the industry but at some point you will. Next time use the KY jelly first, this way it won't hurt soo much!!!

WD.

AWA makes about 60% of Industry average. Nobody is bitcing about their contract. We make about 80-85% of Industry average. the contract was NOT concessionary, we just did not get as big of increase as we wanted. The result of us voteing no would be 1000 Freedom pilots and 1000 mesa guys out of work. not to mention 150 CCAir guys unemployed. you dont get it do you.?

 

[jetdriven]

MESA can kiss my ARSS!

F...Mesa

Bunch of yellow belly pushovers

this from an eagle puke?? The same guys who voted in a 17 year contract?? Christ our CR-70 payscales are higher than yours!! You yellow-bellied sellout!! Hey, how long is upgrade on the EMB over there??

 

[jetdriven]

lrt me say this again. JO offered the contract as it was with NO negotiation and we had until 5 PM to accept it or reject it. If we rejected it JO was to proceed with his original scheme of freedom replacing mesa.

1. We could not stop them, WD. It is JO who runs the company, not ALPA. They decide to go ahead with Freedom and we had a lawsuit filed, but it kept getting delayed by Mesa's lawyer games.

2. JO's condition of the offer was all freedom pilots were not to be harmed, all defectors get original mesa seniority while newhires get date of hire seniority but keep the -700 equipment. You demand what you can get. We had no leverage. remember FAL was getting two planes a month and they were parking -200's.

3. We demand ACA, SKYW, and AWAC pay on the crj. they laugh. How do you propose we "force" them to give it to us??

4. J4J was proposed as a take it or leave it deal. USAIR pilots are going to fly those routes whether in a mesa, midatlantic, or republic airplane. We do, however, get 50% of the NEW flying, which was more than we had to start with. This was fiven to us by the USAIR MEC.

PLEASE REPLY, whiskey driver.

Ok San Juan since you did ask for me in your post.

1st. You guys should have never allowed a whipsaw to be used as a bargining tool. I am sure you are aware of the republic deal now, because the mind set is if it worked for mesa it will work for us.

2nd. You should have demanded that ALL FREEDOM PILOTS BE LET GO AS A RESULT OF SIGNING THE CONTRACT. That message alone would have been heard and felt around the world that any pilot willing to work for a company thru an alter ego would be placing his own career at risk.

3rd. Demand what ACA, Skywest and us are earning to fly the same equipment.

4th. Tell USair that there is no super seniority everyone starts at the bottom. When times change again and the hiring starts will you be able to go to USAir with your seniority and make that years pay???? He11 no??

If you don't think that these actions have had an effect on other carriers take a look at the new "lets start an alter ego" game plan. I see that my old company TSA has now been backed into a corner with this J4J super seniority. It's great for furloughed USairways guys but it's not a two way street. When they get called home they ain't going to be taking you with them.

I know that a lot has been said against mesa and that you guys feel that you have made improvments, but what good are they if they are still below industry standard for the same type a/c. I have heard comments from you guys like "it was either this or unemployment" and "am I supposed to lose my job for you guys with good contracts". Remember the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few.

I hope that I answered as you asked, without the BS.

WD.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

JD,

Then STRIKE!!!! That's what it's there for. Hey no one wants to strike but sometimes you have to. I come from a family of attorneys and stalling is part of the game, you have to be willing to not only play the game but win it. I would have gladly given my money each week to support you guys in a strike situation and walk the line with you on my days off to support you. If you had struck, all freedom pilots would be scabs and as part of of getting it over with agree to ALL OF THEM ON THE STREETS as part signing the contract. JO may have not wanted you guys to hurt them but really what choice would he have??? Now every carrier approaching contract talks is going to have to deal with alter ego because you guys let the wolf into the chicken coop and it ain't going to stop until someone strikes... BTW I have looked at your contract and you are not 80% industry level it's more like 66%. Finally I am the last person that wants to see ANYONE on furlough not USAirways and definatly not CCAIR but in war you are always going to have casualties, we know this going in.

This thing is a whole lot deeper than mesa...

WD.

 

[jetdriven]

WD:
we had to be released by the NMB for the 30-day cooling off period before we could strike. I said before the mediator was a company sympathiser. He would not give us a release like we were trying since day one. JO was aware of this and had freedom up and running for almost a year.

Even if we did strike, JO would simply shift the airframes over to midatlantic and freedom, and shut down air midwest. This was already happening. JO had a 90 day rent holiday on the aircraft at mesa and that would be enough time to shift 25 to freedom and 25 to mid atlantic. So, a strike would actually help his goal, to have a non-union pilot group.

now, what do youi suppose we should have done???

 

[Concierj]

Mesa's new contract is an improvement, albeit slight. There is some misunderstanding and that is mainly due to Mesa's 28 day bid system. A 28 day bid equates to 13.04 bids per year compared to most airlines' 12 bids per year (bpy). 70 hour guarantee at 13.04 bpy equates to 76.07 guarantee at 12 bpy. 10 days off for line holder at 13.04 bpy equates to 10.9 days off at 12 bpy. 8 days off for reserve line holder at 13.04 bpy equates to 8.69 days off per 12 bpy. POS still equates to a POS. Line holders currently average 11.9 days off and 77.82 hours of pay (prior to cancellations) per bid. There is minimal hour protection with the new contract. J4J pilots are seniorized based on DOH at Mesa (At the bottom) but get paid first year 50 seat Jet Captain rate regardless of seat position.

Here are the new pay rates per hour. These rates will increase across the board in 18 mos.

1. 0 - 19 Seat Turboprop Aircraft

YEAR CAPT FO
1 $28.72 $18.15
2 $30.07 $20.39
3 $31.64 $21.98
4 $33.29 $23.63
5 $34.83 $24.33
6 $36.27
7 $37.35
8 $38.46

2. 20 - 74 Seat Turboprop Aircraft

YEAR CAPT FO
1 $37.64 $18.15
2 $39.10 $20.39
3 $40.52 $21.98
4 $42.19 $23.63
5 $43.70 $24.33
6 $45.23
7 $46.48
8 $47.78
9 $49.07
10 $50.34
11 $51.72
12 $52.84
13 $53.66
14 $54.49


3. 50 to 59 Seat Jet Aircraft

YEAR CAPT FO
1 $51.17 $20.47
2 $52.76 $27.42
3 $54.35 $30.59
4 $55.99 $31.90
5 $57.64 $32.85
6 $59.32 $33.62
7 $60.94 $34.07
8 $62.90 $34.55
9 $64.83 $35.04
10 $66.82
11 $68.75
12 $70.85
13 $72.95
14 $75.21
15 $76.26

4. 60 – 76 Seat Jet Aircraft

YEAR CAPT FO
1 $53.86 $20.47
2 $55.50 $27.42
3 $57.17 $30.59
4 $58.91 $31.90
5 $60.68 $32.85
6 $62.50 $33.62
7 $64.37 $34.07
8 $66.30 $34.55
9 $68.29 $35.04
10 $70.34
11 $72.45
12 $74.63
13 $76.86
14 $79.17
15 $81.55
16 $82.85
17 $84.18
18 $85.52
19 $86.89
20 $88.36

5. > 76 Seats < = 86k lbs Jet Aircraft

YEAR CAPT FO
1 $57.90 $20.47
2 $59.67 $27.42
3 $61.48 $30.59
4 $63.33 $31.90
5 $65.25 $32.85
6 $67.19 $33.62
7 $68.85 $34.07
8 $70.95 $34.55
9 $73.13 $35.04
10 $75.33
11 $77.58
12 $79.93
13 $82.33
14 $84.82
15 $86.94
16 $89.11
17 $91.34
18 $93.62
19 $95.96
20 $98.36

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Concierj,

Ok that's what I read, and based on that our second yr FO on the rj makes more than your toped out FO on all equipt types. I as well as most are concerned about the alter ego garbage and how this just wrecks havoc on the regional industry.

WD.