Love Field Discussion: 28 Nov

[Juvat]

Hey Russian:

Since you're so objective, forthright, and magnanimous, why don't you respond to my post on page 1? You seem to have dodged my comments completely. Like the others here, I've been waiting for you to go back to your hole. However, it would be ever so entertaining to watch you take a swing at my fast ball. And no, we're not going to all hold hands and sing Cumbaya if you blather on without basing your comments on logic and evidence. This is a forum full of pilots, not an affirmation session. Expect to get real feedback when you say things that make no sense.

 

[Juvat]

We do the closest thing you can do next to spacewalking everyday we go to work.

WTFO?

Majors used to charge the nominal fees deserved but now they are being undercutted by airlines (not just SWA) that are not: paying for airplanes, or have investors supporting the bills, or have a TEMPORARY break on fuel prices.

Oh I see, you mean airlines like United that are in Chapter 11 protection and are taking advantage of the court to transform into a LCC? Since you have the "all things Soviet" thing under your name, I can only presume that you've been under a rock for the last 13 years. First, the Soviet Union is gone. (You're welcome, by the way) It's okay comrade, you can still buy a MiG on eBay and pretend you're somebody. Second, as you peep out from under your rock, you will soon notice that ALL airlines are low cost carriers these days. Some just do it better than others. Walk towards the light Russian...

Ok, now they bring the legacy carriers down by underpricing them while your overhead is covered, then petition congress not to give financial aide to the legacy carriers. Once the legacy carriers are restructured the low fare carriers scramble to fill the gaps and spend tons of money.

This is where it gets a little hairy. Russian, you sure do have a penchant for hyperbole. Will you please cite any single fact from a business case study to support your outlandish "theory" above? This is pure, unsubstantiated opinion, and we on this forum will use your jibberish to form long-standing negative opinions of your ability to think clearly.

By the way, just a quick side note on the "underpricing" you're so quick to decry. The concept is called price elasticity of demand. When the price changes, the quantity demanded by the consumer changes. The airline that can offer tickets at the lowest price will generate the highest demand, fly more seat miles, and make more money. It's all about volume, and consumers have proved time and again that they view airline tickets as commodity items, not the luxury product you're so fond of writing poetry about.

 

[flynryan15]

Becky is it your time of the month? Do you need to change something and take a Midol!!!!

 

[enigma]

......................................The mangement at low fare carriers don't charge the rates necessary to cover their service.

Please provide data to support this claim. The last I looked, SWA and other LCC's were the only carriers making a profit. How do you conclude that those (profitable) carriers, don't charge enough to cover their service?

If you want to get from FLL to LGA in 2 hours on a 150 million dollar jet that burns 3000 lbs pounds of fuel an hour with 2 pilots that have $150,000 worth of education each, then pay the appropriate fare. Otherwise you can take the two months and walk it to burn that Mickey D's off.

The appropriate fare would be the fare that the market can bear. At the moment, the market won't bear ticket prices high enough to support the old style legacy carrier business model. You may not like it, but the market will rule.

Majors used to charge the nominal fees deserved but now they are being undercutted by airlines (not just SWA) that are not: paying for airplanes, or have investors supporting the bills, or have a TEMPORARY break on fuel prices. Lets see how long that lasts.

I'd like to suggest that you spend some time learning the history of the industry. As I stated in the first paragraph, the LCC's are paying their bills. The only carriers undercutting the market at the carriers flying under bankruptcy protection. BK is a different subject.

Ok, now they bring the legacy carriers down by underpricing them while your overhead is covered,

I think that LCC's cover their overhead with profits, ya ever hear of that?

then petition congress not to give financial aide to the legacy carriers. Once the legacy carriers are restructured the low fare carriers scramble to fill the gaps and spend tons of money. When their little lifeline and breaks run out they realize "we cant afford to sell seats for 49 dollars" and the pilots dont want 60K a year to pay for their ELITE position. Yes ELITE because of the risk, cost of training, years of hard work, and responsibility greater than any doctor, lawyer, etc. Then they must also raise their prices while providing the same lower standard they were before. This would virtually eliminate the first class section and environment. Thus, bringing down the industry as a whole.

Tell ya what, why don't you go on a crusade. Spend your time and money in an effort to convince pilots that they deserve more than $60K a year. I've been doing that here for four or five years as I fight against PFT, etc. Unfortunately, I haven't done much good, because the PFT operations are going strong, and the low paying carriers have thousands of pilots lined up to take those $60K jobs.

Go ahead. Convince all of the pilots who are currently working for less than $60K to either quit or strike. That's what it will take for wages to go above $60K. Until then, pilot wages will continue to be set at the level acceptable by qualified, yet unemployed pilots.

enigma

 

[RVR300]

Yes your company is lowering the bar. You do not provide the quality of service the legacy carriers do. You do not have the quality of equipment the legacy carriers have. You do not have the destinations or the code shares. Sorry, thats the way it is from a consumer standpoint. Ride in the cabin on CAL, then ride on SWA, or other low fare carriers and you see it too.

This chick is out to lunch. She obviously knows nothing about our equipment, and seems to be blind to the needs/wants of the traveling public. It sounds like she lives in a dream world.

The travelling public demanded low fares and we answered the call. You talk of the 'consumer standpoint,' but you're only talking about your own limited point of view. Our planes are full becuase we provide our passengers with what they want: value.

Sounds to me like you're a very novice pilot looking to one day fly the big iron and envision the grand old days of air travel. That's great. Been there, done that. You go on about what consumers want. That's funny. The consumer is the reason we are in business.

It is unfortunate that years of mismanagement on the part of the legacy carriers is being taken out on their greatest assets. It should come as no surprise to anyone though. The pilots make the most money, and cutting pilot wages is the easiest quickest way to reduce the airline's liabilities, or at least slash a large piece from the charts.

 

[RJones]

How did a discussion of Love Field turn into how crummy the service is at SWA?

SWA never intended to be the all-be-it travel service provider like the legacy carriers did. They weren’t interested in having car rental agencies, hotels etc. The focus has always been on providing low cost travel to those who couldn’t and simply wouldn’t pay the extremely high fares the legacy carries did and still do.

When you travel on SWA you aren’t going to be in first class and the seats aren’t as comfy as those on others carriers. But people know that and still they fly SWA.

Sure our planes don’t have all the fancy bells and whistles the legacy carriers have but you don’t need all that stuff to fly an airplane. The point is “kiss.” I have NO problem getting in an old -200 or -300 with the steam gauges … they work and get the plane cross the country.

RJ

 

[mach zero]

Russian,
I recommend not sticking your foot in the mouths of the rest of the GIA pilots because your posts are doing just that. I realize that your opinions are not reflective of the entire group but my (and probably lots of other pilots) only exposure to your little outfit has been the PFT ads and your posts.

 

[SWA/FO]

Hey beeeouch! Get off our board! Hopefully your furlough will end soon and you can get back to fighting all those "bad guys" (LCCs).

peace~out

 

[luv2fly]

"If you want to get from FLL to LGA in 2 hours on a 150 million dollar jet that burns 3000 lbs pounds of fuel an hour with 2 pilots that have $150,000 worth of education each, then pay the appropriate fare. Otherwise you can take the two months and walk it to burn that Mickey D's off. "

Just curious what type of airplane cost 150 million and burns 3000 lbs an hour??

 

[LEROY]

My airplane burns 9k per hour cruise, about 18k/hr climb, and I think Fred picked them up for a couple mil apiece. And my education cost well into the millions, last time somebody tried to figure it. 'Course I guess the boxes in back don't b!tch as much as some of the customers out there...

 

[Juvat]

Oh well...

I guess we scared the Russian off. It's funny how frightening FACTS can be sometimes. Sigh...

 

[The_Russian]

Just in time.

Don't worry Juvat, you haven't scared me off yet. When i am done flying tommorrow you will hear a lot from me.

 

[Juvat]

Don't worry Juvat, you haven't scared me off yet. When i am done flying tommorrow you will hear a lot from me.

Wonderful! Looking forward to an educational discussion. In the meantime, enjoy flying your aerobatic plane that makes people dizzy, or your $150 million jet that burns 3000 lbs/hr...which one is it today?

 

[Dennis Miller]

When i am done flying tommorrow you will hear a lot from me.

Be careful you don't ram that soda cart into anyone's knee this trip. I can't take any airline honestly, that advertises for pilots in the back of a magazine. Listen pork chop, the crazy train is leaving and that’s about the only ride you are gonna catch for the foreseeable future. So do everyone a favor and go back to the FBO and pretend to the masses that you're the big time airline pilot. You're a motorcycle chick, at a Mo-Ped airline.

 

[mach zero]

To better appreciate The Russian's employer, I recommend viewing www.gulfstreamacademy.com

 

[Dennis Miller]

See what happens when your union representation is Crate and Barrel.

 

[lonestarpilot20]

And now back to our regular scheduled program....anybody remember what it was?

 

[The_Russian]

I timed out!

Woo hoo 24 hours off. But I won't waste that time talking to you fellas so I'll get it over quick and I'll never post on this thread you have so delightfully turned around on me instead of discussing the subject!

See what happens when your union representation is Crate and Barrel.

We are IBT 747. We as pilots at GIA fight for and have received above industry standard wages and benefits for the aircraft we fly.

To better appreciate The Russian's employer, I recommend viewing www.gulfstreamacademy.com

I was employed by Gulfstream Academy. As a flight instructor where I gave primary and instrument instruction to students. I also do aerobatic instruction on the side still.

Be careful you don't ram that soda cart into anyone's knee this trip. I can't take any airline honestly, that advertises for pilots in the back of a magazine. Listen pork chop, the crazy train is leaving and that’s about the only ride you are gonna catch for the foreseeable future. So do everyone a favor and go back to the FBO and pretend to the masses that you're the big time airline pilot. You're a motorcycle chick, at a Mo-Ped airline.

I am not a flight attendant. Every regional advertises for pilots in the back of a magazine. Except the GIA flight school doesn't steal anyones money. And the students GET what they pay for and that is HALF of what DCA or FSI or Pan Am, etc, charges. I am a "big-time airline pilot". I worked six hard years to get here. Just because I fly a 1900 doesn't make me less of a pilot than you.

I guess we scared the Russian off. It's funny how frightening FACTS can be sometimes.

It is frightening how much people don't listen either.

Just curious what type of airplane cost 150 million and burns 3000 lbs an hour??

The numbers looked good. The fuel doesn't make sense. Check the price on an A-340.

Hey beeeouch! Get off our board! Hopefully your furlough will end soon and you can get back to fighting all those "bad guys" (LCCs).

I am not furloughed. Yes, in a way LCC's are bad guys, they are the competition for CAL and its regionals.

I recommend not sticking your foot in the mouths of the rest of the GIA pilots because your posts are doing just that.

If I am not posting on a thread based on GIA, then how are my comments here reflecting on them. Because canyonblue pins up one of my posts from another thread on here? And how does me working at GIA affect the credibility of my statements? No different than any other regional.

my (and probably lots of other pilots) only exposure to your little outfit has been the PFT ads and your posts.

I am not going to get into the truth of GIA on this thread, but the F/O program is not what you all think it is. However, the Fast-Track Captain program is. We are working with the union to stop that. I personally am Anti-PFT.

RJones,

Thank you for the calm reply and not attacking me personally. Your retort is very well put. I agree with you about there being a good place for SWA in the industry. I was a little p-o'ed at the time of my original post due to an incident that happened that day and it had to do with an SWA customer. I am very conservative when it comes to the airline industry because of my family, (not pilots) and I dont want to see anything bad happen to any of us or the Legacy Carriers. I don't know if you will understand, but I thank you for your response.

onward....

Juvat,

From the moment you responded to my posts:

Alright, I know I'm responding to an apparent wack-job who came out of the woodwork when he did a web search on the word "socialist," but this witless character needs to be called out..

"wack-job"! "witless character"! oh more....

It's okay comrade, you can still buy a MiG on eBay and pretend you're somebody.

more...more....!!!

Wonderful! Looking forward to an educational discussion. In the meantime, enjoy flying your aerobatic plane that makes people dizzy, or your $150 million jet that burns 3000 lbs/hr...which one is it today?

Wow, since your such a big, smart grown up you can go sit in the corner for timeout. I don't give intellectual reponses to people who talk like that to others. I have nothing bad to say about you so why talk bad about me? And I don't live on this forum so don't expect me to respond in a jiff to you.

I think you people need to learn to seperate personal attacks from industry discussion. If you all fly in the majors or even pretend to fly there then your posts should be way more mature and fact-occupied than mine, considering the fact that I am 24 and half through college. Maybe my original post was a little racey, and I am sorry for the adrenaline. So you can go ahead and break this post down into your neat little "he said that!?!?!" replys. But make sure you have some fun with it. I'll be back to look but I won't post on this thread. I still think the LCC's are worthless and should be taken down. I really wish your CEO's had not joined together against the Legacy carriers in Congress. That does not help pilots and employees on our side LOVE the LCC's. I hope we win this battle in the "free market" system. I really believe that the LCC's will not be able to survive once they have to pay real bills and their employees want a deserved life. It is already showing on paper at Jet Blue.

I definitely don't want to sing songs with any of you, that would be too gay for me. And I am not a girl. I thank Ryan for that.

THANKS RYAN. You are just mad becasue my car is faster than yours and I will make YOU cry like a beeeotch.

Peace Out Retort..........my nizzles

 

[flynryan15]

Becky you must be Dizzy if you think that your Camero SS will see anything but the Tail Lights from my 350zx. I would say lets race on the turnpike but you can't pay the Toll.

 

[The_Russian]

Muhahahaha

Learn to spell Camaro. See the extra A! American muscle vs. Nissan nappy whiny motor. BOOOOO. You will be crushed.

Damit !!! I posted here again! RL you BUT pirate.