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Love Field Discussion: 28 Nov

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enigma said:
If Spirit goes down, then everybody is going down, because we have the LOWEST NON-FUEL COSTS in the industry. I don't have time to dig it up, but the owner has been quoted in an article in the south Florida press as saying just that, that we are the lowest cost carrier. Unfortunately, we reached the lowcost grail by paying the lowest. enigma
Please allow me to suggest that the lowest paid pilots do not by any stretch guarantee success in this business. Good management with a plan, and a qualified work force rule the day. Case in point - Southwest. Currently among the highest paid employees and also the most successful airline today.

In the past, other successful airlines also paid among the highest wages. This is true of virtually all of the legacies at one point or another. Eventually they fell victim to their success as incompetent rapacious management hordes and overly greedy union featherbedding practices combined to pillage the treasury and kill the company(s).

Contrarily, where is Vanguard, Midway 1 and 2, Pro-air, Win-air and countless other very low cost airlines?? Sometimes we are our own worst enemies by buying into managements line that a company's success rises and falls with employee wages. While scheduling practices and rigs that pay empolyees for not working do have a hugely negative effect on sustainability, hourly pay does not.

For example, a reasonably high wage for a 737 Captain is $180/hr, while $110/hr is ridiculously low. Let's use $90 and $55 for the FO. The good job pays $270/hr for the cockpit while the sh!tty one pays $165. This is a difference of $105/hr or about 77 cents per seat per hour (135 seat assumption).

Assuming 400 miles per hour, this radical difference in compensation generates a .2 cent CASM difference!!

Murk
 
The_Russian said:
The free market system is killing the airline industry. The low fare carriers are popping up everywhere and lowering the bar for the industry. I love it when a group of white- trashers get on my airplane in ripped up clothes and smell like eggs. Everyone can fly when the prices are $49 for a round trip.

Hey, then we can pay the pilot half of what he was making yesterday because the quality airlines can't compete with the airline who doesn't pay for their airplanes and gets everything for free. In fact, once we cut your pay we need to add more job duties such as : clean the cabin, dump the lav, and throw bags.

I went through a toll at MIA the other day. Foolish as it was for me to do this, I realized I had no change or cash. I told the toll (troll) man this. He said I am a pilot and I am rich so he is going to give me a ticket. I asked which airline he regularly flies on. He said &*^*^$$% (name of low fare trash-ways). Go figure. Thats why I have no money a$$hole.

Folks: you are now FREE to move about the country.


Sorry for the rant.
edited...but you still don't know your @ss from a hole in the ground you stinky russian whore
 
Last edited:
RJones said:
How did a discussion of Love Field turn into how crummy the service is at SWA?

SWA never intended to be the all-be-it travel service provider like the legacy carriers did. They weren’t interested in having car rental agencies, hotels etc. The focus has always been on providing low cost travel to those who couldn’t and simply wouldn’t pay the extremely high fares the legacy carries did and still do.

When you travel on SWA you aren’t going to be in first class and the seats aren’t as comfy as those on others carriers. But people know that and still they fly SWA.

Sure our planes don’t have all the fancy bells and whistles the legacy carriers have but you don’t need all that stuff to fly an airplane. The point is “kiss.” I have NO problem getting in an old -200 or -300 with the steam gauges … they work and get the plane cross the country.

RJ
**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** straight...and I can say from past experience Southwest is a fine company to work for...too bad I got canned over probation BS (agent, not pilot before that ? comes up)

Anyone who has a problem with the way Southwest does things is only jealous their own airline didn't figure it out this well over 30 years ago. As an Airways employee I can say it would be nice to enjoy the job security WN has. In the long run you guys will be the best paid out there if for nothing more than job security...just about to come off furlough and know how nice that would be.

Russian....you are a moron. Southwest has a wonderful fleet. Even the classics get an interior refurb and I can't remember ever being on one that was really all that bad. I've been on a few 737s from the legacy carriers that were older than my father and showing it! Peanuts and a Coke should keep anyone happy on a 60 minute ride...and if you don't like that you're more than welcome to buy a $5 burger and carry it on the plane. Shut your pie hole. You speak without experience and everyone who reads one of your posts is now a little dumber for having read it.

SWA - you guys have never been anything but a pleasure to travel with, and I can tell you first hand the russian doesn't know her @ss from a hole in the wall. Keep doin what you do, because it obviously works.
 
Industry Broke--you don't get it Russian

IT does not matter if you work for an LCC or a Legacy carrier, I have worked for both. $50 a barrel for oil and $39 fares do not work on any balance sheet, even WN if it were not for the fuel hedges. Yields have to improve to stop the mass carnage.
 
usav8r said:
$50 a barrel for oil and $39 fares do not work on any balance sheet, even WN if it were not for the fuel hedges.
Unless you're in Chapter 11, then apparently no rules apply, that madness has to stop.
 
Quality of Service

Though I am sure she has been scared away from this thread now, I wanted to offer some comments on the lower standard of service The Russian claims Southwest provides. The following are my recent experiences:

(1) My last flight on one legacy carrier was cancelled right before takeoff. After being rudely told by the gate attendant to proceed to the help desk I waited in line 30 minutes and found out I had no chance of getting on the next and last flight of the evening to my destination. They offered no apology or benny like a free drink at the bar. I had to rent a car one-way to get home.

(2) Flying the same legacy carrier the previous trip my baggage didn't make it onto the aircraft and didn't arrive for a week. I had to call myself every other day and waste 30 minutes each call fighting through a very-user-unfriendly phone tree to actually talk to someone regarding my bags. I had to drive back to the airport to pick them up.

(3) Flying another legacy carrier (who may or may not fly red and white planes predominantly out of Minneapolis) last summer my flight was cancelled after waiting IN THE AIRCRAFT for 3 hours due to weather (something beyond their control). We were promised vouchers and ticket discounts that never materialized (we were basically lied to). After waiting in line for THREE HOURS at the service desk manned by only one person I was told there were no more flights and they, unfortunately, couldn't put me up in a room anywhere but "good luck :) ." I slept on the floor at the airport. The next day they acted like they were doing me a favor by getting me on another flight to my destination. No apology, voucher, nothing. On this flight one of the flight attendants was the absolute rudest, meanest, person I have ever met and I watched her demean ever passenger she talked to and drive a young mother with an infant to tears because she had the gall to ask for some water for her child.

(4) Flying yet another legacy carrier to South America they announced that for some reason half of the required flight attendants didn't make the flight so we would have to be OK with "getting food and drink service if they find time." Well at least they were really grumpy.

(5) Flying a discount airline (that may have once changed their name from ValueJet) I had an employee at their counter rudely chastise me for not arriving earlier even though the flight wasn't due to leave for another 2 hours.


The above constitute 5 of the 7 trips I made in the last 18 months on airlines other than Southwest. This was the service I received from the legacy airlines, being the "bar" that according to The Russian Southwest fails to meet. How have my experiences been on the 10 times I have flown Southwest during this time period?

(1) Each and every time I have called SWA I got to talk to a real, live human being IMMEDIATELY. And in EACH case that real live human being was friendly, extremely helpful and accomodating, and made me feel like they valued my business.

(2) Each and every flight left ON TIME and had crews that were ridiculously friendly, helpful, and made sure all aboard knew our patronage was appreciated. All were extremely professional and courteous and made the flight and enjoyable as possible.

(3) My luggage arrived EACH and EVERY time.

(4) I never had to wait in line at any Southwest counter more than 5 minutes and each employee was friendly, courteous, and more often than not went well out of their way to help me out.


If these experiences are what The Russian calls "lowering the bar" lets all try to drop that dad-gum bar throughout the business world. I am pretty flexible and understand that flights get delayed, cancelled, etc, but a common theme through most of my experiences is that in general Southwest employees care a whole heck of a lot more about the customer than other carriers, where many (but certainly NOT all) of their employees have acted indifferent and taken my business for granted.

I have a really hard time believing anyone who claims Southwest and other discount airlines that focus more on satisfying the customer are "lowering the bar" have really flown much with them.

My point here was certainly not to denegrate any of the legacy carriers but just to attack the ridiculous notion that Southwest service is sub-standard (a ridiculous assertion I know many have already attacked.) Admittedly, I have had a share of significant bad luck of late flying with the big boys but what has been frustrating through it all is how little so many of their employees cared.
 
And as we say, and really mean it, Thank you for flying Southwest.
 
Original thread theme note

Had the opportunity to communicate with some interesting SWA folks last night(a very rare event for me...they are exactly as they appear, very easy to talk to & genuinely interested in all employees) and came away with the following observations/notes:

1. Wright Amendment's demise: timing couldn't be better from their perspective. A 10 fold increase in letters (SWA doesn't do emails) from disgruntled passengers/businesses over the insanity of the rule...this is our stongest assest. A definite plan is being put together to target Rapid Reward paxs, employee groups & businesses in the North Texas region as well as businesses at other SWA cities about the benefits to doing away with the WA. Letter writing and a bombardment of elected officials at all levels is being devised to take advantage of this "perfect storm" generated by Gary Kelly & other senior execs. Going to DFW wasn't the right thing to do for our shareholders....it didn't make money sense...what a concept for an airline management team to use as a way to determine how to spend their funds!!!

2. ATA bids are being prepared by our experts (as outlined in the hotline message by GK on Monday) & while we would like 6 gates, we understand the package being offered may include other resources that while may not be our #1 priority (we'd just like gates), the offer will most likely include other aspects of the ATA assets. People are not one of them but other assets maybe.

3. The Chicago officials are adamant about owning the gate assets & not the BK judge. No one would be surprised if a legal injunction filed by the city against any decisions made by the BK judge to block the re-distribution of those assets to someone Chicago might deem more appropriate. This the big question mark in my mind that even after the yard/bake sale next week other legal wranglings are options. However, ATA will be greatly impacted if they can't get this settled by early Jan with the bills they have coming due.

4. SWA officials are at a loss to understand the logic of Dallas's Mayor at supporting the WA. Yes she is on the BOD for the DFW Airport (every Dallas mayor is automatically) but Southwest plans to continue to use local residents & other influences to make their case as to why it is good for the city of Dallas & North Texas to remove the restrictions. They respect the mayor but disagree strongly with her position (no duh!!!).

5. SWA is not concerned about having MDW, PHL & Love compete for which area is our #1 priority. I had postulated (I pulled a muscle doing that, I should've known not too!) this might present a problem. As is often the case I was wrong! That sort of dilemma is not one they are shying away from according to these folks. Arguments are being made that a higher than planned for growth rate is not only doable but desireable to take advantage of current market conditions. Competition is highest on the east coast over revenue but with the current cost cutting measures in place at SWA (fuel conservation, retirement of older aircraft, increased capacity without adding new employees) growing faster will make SWA more efficient, something most other airlines aren't able to do in this environment.

Overall I came away even more upbeat & optimistic about what is in store with Southwest over the next 18 months. Not directly related to "interview" but it does provide you a brief glimpse (through some less than perfect eyes, mine!) of how some senior folks think about Southwest's near-term & future growth plans. For those who are hoping to interview soon, simply put: get your type, get PIC time as much as you can, keep your good rep in the flying business, get to KNOW Southwest Airlines inside & out. Good luck to all, cheers & God Bless,
 
Did they happen to mention buying any 175's?:)
 
lowecur said:
Did they happen to mention buying any 175's?:)
I posed this question to the planning people when they were in our class a few weeks ago and they said the RJ issue had been looked at and shelved....thank GOD!!
 

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