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Love Field Discussion: 28 Nov
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The_Russian
Low Level Pilot
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- Sep 3, 2003
- Posts
- 2,574
flynryan15
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2003
- Posts
- 637
The_Russian
Low Level Pilot
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2003
- Posts
- 2,574
SWA fo
Yes your company is lowering the bar. You do not provide the quality of service the legacy carriers do. You do not have the quality of equipment the legacy carriers have. You do not have the destinations or the code shares. Sorry, thats the way it is from a consumer standpoint. Ride in the cabin on CAL, then ride on SWA, or other low fare carriers and you see it too.
Keep in mind that it is not personal.
Yes your company is lowering the bar. You do not provide the quality of service the legacy carriers do. You do not have the quality of equipment the legacy carriers have. You do not have the destinations or the code shares. Sorry, thats the way it is from a consumer standpoint. Ride in the cabin on CAL, then ride on SWA, or other low fare carriers and you see it too.
Keep in mind that it is not personal.
The_Russian
Low Level Pilot
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2003
- Posts
- 2,574
flynryan15
Well-known member
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- Oct 27, 2003
- Posts
- 637
Hey Russian,
Why do you criticize the fine folks at SWA. I don't understand this lowering the bar argument that I see posted on alot of threads. My brother works for AA, and two years ago we had an argument about RJ's "lowering the bar". I flew a turboprop and worked my ass off for $30.00 /hr. and the man said "wanna fly an RJ for $56/ hr." We had a crappy contract (pay and work rules) but was I supposed to say no. Management crushed any union attempts to get a better life.
The industry is what it is. Management cares about making money and paying the share-holders. The business climate in America has dictated that the $3,000 walk up fares aren't feasible any more. Hence the legacy problems.
SWA has been really smart (duh). Why were they the only ones to significantly hedge fuel during this upturn in oil prices? Would I like to work at CAL,AA or UAL, you bet I would, but they aren't hiring. As my airline sinks at the bow it looks like SWA and only a few of the LCC's are willing to look at my resume. The people at SWA are awesome. I think my quality of life will improve if I end up working for SWA. Beats working in Russia (no pun intended)
Also, my ticket says "Airline Transport Pilot" but no mention of aerobatics. I guess if I see you, I will have to stay out of your sight (lol)
Why do you criticize the fine folks at SWA. I don't understand this lowering the bar argument that I see posted on alot of threads. My brother works for AA, and two years ago we had an argument about RJ's "lowering the bar". I flew a turboprop and worked my ass off for $30.00 /hr. and the man said "wanna fly an RJ for $56/ hr." We had a crappy contract (pay and work rules) but was I supposed to say no. Management crushed any union attempts to get a better life.
The industry is what it is. Management cares about making money and paying the share-holders. The business climate in America has dictated that the $3,000 walk up fares aren't feasible any more. Hence the legacy problems.
SWA has been really smart (duh). Why were they the only ones to significantly hedge fuel during this upturn in oil prices? Would I like to work at CAL,AA or UAL, you bet I would, but they aren't hiring. As my airline sinks at the bow it looks like SWA and only a few of the LCC's are willing to look at my resume. The people at SWA are awesome. I think my quality of life will improve if I end up working for SWA. Beats working in Russia (no pun intended)
Also, my ticket says "Airline Transport Pilot" but no mention of aerobatics. I guess if I see you, I will have to stay out of your sight (lol)
The_Russian
Low Level Pilot
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2003
- Posts
- 2,574
The posts are not directed at the employees. They are directed toward the company itself. I, personally will never support a low fare carrier nor will I appy to one.
And yes I am against RJ's too. But that is another thread. I have personally never heard of a walk up fare of $3000. However when I was 8 my mother and I flew for $1000 a ticket on a walk up.
We do the closest thing you can do next to spacewalking everyday we go to work. The industry deserves some respect. The mangement at low fare carriers don't charge the rates necessary to cover their service. If you want to get from FLL to LGA in 2 hours on a 150 million dollar jet that burns 3000 lbs pounds of fuel an hour with 2 pilots that have $150,000 worth of education each, then pay the appropriate fare. Otherwise you can take the two months and walk it to burn that Mickey D's off.
Majors used to charge the nominal fees deserved but now they are being undercutted by airlines (not just SWA) that are not: paying for airplanes, or have investors supporting the bills, or have a TEMPORARY break on fuel prices. Lets see how long that lasts.
Ok, now they bring the legacy carriers down by underpricing them while your overhead is covered, then petition congress not to give financial aide to the legacy carriers. Once the legacy carriers are restructured the low fare carriers scramble to fill the gaps and spend tons of money. When their little lifeline and breaks run out they realize "we cant afford to sell seats for 49 dollars" and the pilots dont want 60K a year to pay for their ELITE position. Yes ELITE because of the risk, cost of training, years of hard work, and responsibility greater than any doctor, lawyer, etc. Then they must also raise their prices while providing the same lower standard they were before. This would virtually eliminate the first class section and environment. Thus, bringing down the industry as a whole.
Oh, and I almost forgot. All your Legacy carrier comrades that lost EVERYTHING. Pension, medical, misc. benefits. Point fingers at me and say that I am talking about the pilots. Look at what your company is DOING to the pilots. Yes current management at some of the Legacy carriers is poor (not CAL, woo hoo!), but mangement is NOT the root cause. There is corruption and mis-mangement at EVERY company. The true cause is undercutting. Now people expect CAL and friends to charge dirt prices for their excellent service and customer provisions. Thus, lowering the bar (see above).
Sorry some of you have to call me bad names. I'm just telling how it is and how it needs to change. Some of you can't deal with that. I am very sorry the fact don't always match public opinion on this board.
PS
SWA/FO,
No you have not accepted a pay cut, which is great. Please don't twist my words or the meaning of this thread to be directed at the pilots. We are talking about managment and airline quality.
And yes I am against RJ's too. But that is another thread. I have personally never heard of a walk up fare of $3000. However when I was 8 my mother and I flew for $1000 a ticket on a walk up.
We do the closest thing you can do next to spacewalking everyday we go to work. The industry deserves some respect. The mangement at low fare carriers don't charge the rates necessary to cover their service. If you want to get from FLL to LGA in 2 hours on a 150 million dollar jet that burns 3000 lbs pounds of fuel an hour with 2 pilots that have $150,000 worth of education each, then pay the appropriate fare. Otherwise you can take the two months and walk it to burn that Mickey D's off.
Majors used to charge the nominal fees deserved but now they are being undercutted by airlines (not just SWA) that are not: paying for airplanes, or have investors supporting the bills, or have a TEMPORARY break on fuel prices. Lets see how long that lasts.
Ok, now they bring the legacy carriers down by underpricing them while your overhead is covered, then petition congress not to give financial aide to the legacy carriers. Once the legacy carriers are restructured the low fare carriers scramble to fill the gaps and spend tons of money. When their little lifeline and breaks run out they realize "we cant afford to sell seats for 49 dollars" and the pilots dont want 60K a year to pay for their ELITE position. Yes ELITE because of the risk, cost of training, years of hard work, and responsibility greater than any doctor, lawyer, etc. Then they must also raise their prices while providing the same lower standard they were before. This would virtually eliminate the first class section and environment. Thus, bringing down the industry as a whole.
Oh, and I almost forgot. All your Legacy carrier comrades that lost EVERYTHING. Pension, medical, misc. benefits. Point fingers at me and say that I am talking about the pilots. Look at what your company is DOING to the pilots. Yes current management at some of the Legacy carriers is poor (not CAL, woo hoo!), but mangement is NOT the root cause. There is corruption and mis-mangement at EVERY company. The true cause is undercutting. Now people expect CAL and friends to charge dirt prices for their excellent service and customer provisions. Thus, lowering the bar (see above).
Sorry some of you have to call me bad names. I'm just telling how it is and how it needs to change. Some of you can't deal with that. I am very sorry the fact don't always match public opinion on this board.
PS
SWA/FO,
No you have not accepted a pay cut, which is great. Please don't twist my words or the meaning of this thread to be directed at the pilots. We are talking about managment and airline quality.
Last edited:
canyonblue
Everyone loves Southwest
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 2,314
As usual when someone does not post where they currently work, it is for some very good reason. This poster "The Russian" is just another moron playing on the Majors page. By doing the usual post search I have found that this idiot is nothing more than a Gulfstream Academy fast tracker. She even posts such wonderful posts such as.................................................
You are saying that the F/O program is PFT because of a legal technicality. The only reason you get 8 dollars an hour is so you can hold the seat to meet the regs. Otherwise you would not be paid. You are also not represented by the union while in the program. No benefits are given. GIA would be PFT if you could pay the money and stay there forever. You get 250 and thats it. It is an internship. It's the best internship a pilot can do.
And..........................
You are right, it is not the finest. But I would say it is comparable to the higher ups. GIA has my respect because of the employee professionalism. I attended FSI for my CFI and it was an outstanding school. Hopefully the Fast Track Captain program will die out because it will be to expensive or unpopular.
And..........................
Gulfstream is not PFT. I'm not sure how many times I have to say it and I'm not in denial, so don't say I am. PFT is when you buy a job. We do not "buy a job". The FO program is a training program which is very benifical to a professional career. Our pilots get hired by regionals all over because of their experiance, hard work, and dedication. Some of us get selected to stay on as "permanent hires" for different reasons. We cannot buy that. Some of the people who come through here are rich kids. Most of us are not. I have loans out my a$$. Some guys are military pilots doing a fixed wing transition which the GI bill pays for.
GA is not a "scam" or a handjob operation. It is a high quality academy which gives the finest training in the industry. Officials at GA and GIA don't tell us what we want to hear or feed us BS cake. They tell us how it is. As an employee at both operations, I appriciate the honesty from mangement. You will not meet one, not one GIA guy who feels he has been screwed.
I don't think that any of you can tell me otherwise because you know absolutly nothing about GIA except heresay. Too many of you disect the website, which is a "selling tool" like any other business has, and paste it on this board to make us look like sh!t. I work at GIA. I know what goes on here. I am not a regional pilot who bought my job. I earned it with time and service. I am not playing pilot. I am a flight crew member in a 121 operation.
Now, about the Fast Track Captain thing. We are against that because it IS buying a job. That is PFT. It is taking away the oppurtunity to have permanent hire first officers which is a well paid position. I make more money that most first year CRJ first officers and I drive a little 1900. It is also taking away the airline's right to select the finest and make them permantent hire.
Rumple, it doesn't matter how much time you have, it's the effort put forth and the quality of training. Military pilots have 200TT or so when they get thier FA-18 to go to work in. We do 60 hours of sim training prior to entering the cockpit of the beech.
Most of you must be pretty p-o'ed at life to bash us GIA guys. Go bust on someone who deserves it. Maybe the managment at your airlines that are treating you like poop or running your company into the ground. I'm happy with my job and the way I got here. I feel that it was all very well worth the penny and the time. I'm not sitting on my a$$ pumping fuel anymore. Since I went through the F/O program I have had 3 employement OFFERS from regional airlines. How many have you had?
Now get off this board, you are pathetic.
You are saying that the F/O program is PFT because of a legal technicality. The only reason you get 8 dollars an hour is so you can hold the seat to meet the regs. Otherwise you would not be paid. You are also not represented by the union while in the program. No benefits are given. GIA would be PFT if you could pay the money and stay there forever. You get 250 and thats it. It is an internship. It's the best internship a pilot can do.
And..........................
You are right, it is not the finest. But I would say it is comparable to the higher ups. GIA has my respect because of the employee professionalism. I attended FSI for my CFI and it was an outstanding school. Hopefully the Fast Track Captain program will die out because it will be to expensive or unpopular.
And..........................
Gulfstream is not PFT. I'm not sure how many times I have to say it and I'm not in denial, so don't say I am. PFT is when you buy a job. We do not "buy a job". The FO program is a training program which is very benifical to a professional career. Our pilots get hired by regionals all over because of their experiance, hard work, and dedication. Some of us get selected to stay on as "permanent hires" for different reasons. We cannot buy that. Some of the people who come through here are rich kids. Most of us are not. I have loans out my a$$. Some guys are military pilots doing a fixed wing transition which the GI bill pays for.
GA is not a "scam" or a handjob operation. It is a high quality academy which gives the finest training in the industry. Officials at GA and GIA don't tell us what we want to hear or feed us BS cake. They tell us how it is. As an employee at both operations, I appriciate the honesty from mangement. You will not meet one, not one GIA guy who feels he has been screwed.
I don't think that any of you can tell me otherwise because you know absolutly nothing about GIA except heresay. Too many of you disect the website, which is a "selling tool" like any other business has, and paste it on this board to make us look like sh!t. I work at GIA. I know what goes on here. I am not a regional pilot who bought my job. I earned it with time and service. I am not playing pilot. I am a flight crew member in a 121 operation.
Now, about the Fast Track Captain thing. We are against that because it IS buying a job. That is PFT. It is taking away the oppurtunity to have permanent hire first officers which is a well paid position. I make more money that most first year CRJ first officers and I drive a little 1900. It is also taking away the airline's right to select the finest and make them permantent hire.
Rumple, it doesn't matter how much time you have, it's the effort put forth and the quality of training. Military pilots have 200TT or so when they get thier FA-18 to go to work in. We do 60 hours of sim training prior to entering the cockpit of the beech.
Most of you must be pretty p-o'ed at life to bash us GIA guys. Go bust on someone who deserves it. Maybe the managment at your airlines that are treating you like poop or running your company into the ground. I'm happy with my job and the way I got here. I feel that it was all very well worth the penny and the time. I'm not sitting on my a$$ pumping fuel anymore. Since I went through the F/O program I have had 3 employement OFFERS from regional airlines. How many have you had?
Now get off this board, you are pathetic.
The_Russian
Low Level Pilot
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2003
- Posts
- 2,574
canyonblue
Everyone loves Southwest
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 2,314
The_Russian
Low Level Pilot
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2003
- Posts
- 2,574
The_Russian
Low Level Pilot
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2003
- Posts
- 2,574
For those of you who would like to stay near the subject, this man says it well:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=43619
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=43619
The_Russian
Low Level Pilot
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2003
- Posts
- 2,574
bluesideup1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2002
- Posts
- 179
How do you block individual posters so they don't waste my time with flame bait? The Russian and her diatribe will be the first and only. Even Lowecur hasn't joined this club he at least can make me laugh with his ever pressing belief that the EMB will take over world. But seriously how do you do it?
bluesideup1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2002
- Posts
- 179
The_Russian
Low Level Pilot
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2003
- Posts
- 2,574
I guess "flamebait" is the term used on this forum to describe things people don't want to hear. Grow up. People on this forum need to hear all sides of the story, not just the ones that are easy on the ears. If you read my other posts you will see that I am a very objective poster and do my best to not direct any facts or opinion towards any specific person or group of persons. I do not appreciate libel, slander, or being labeled because you don't want to hear some truth to the matter. I remember people doing that in kindergarten.
You see....Comrade....the problem is .....you are spewing forth opinions and stating they are "truth" when in fact, as entitled as you are to your opinion, you cannot fathom that possibility that you might be wrong. You can shake your fist at the industry and say that " it's not fair", but at the end of the day nothing will change. You seem bent on pointing out that others are "picking" on you, but, look at your tag line. "get out of my sight". You bring it on yourself.
Now ..back to the issue.. de-regulation and SWA vs. the world. I realize that these are corporations. They are in business to make money. If they do not make money they do not stay in business. SWA has been good at making money. Others, lately, have not and are going to LABOR ( yes ....as hard as it is to face...we are very skilled and specialized labor) and pay, quality of life etc. has gone down.
Bottom line is... SWA has got a very big bag of marbles and it looks like they are ready to play.
Now ..back to the issue.. de-regulation and SWA vs. the world. I realize that these are corporations. They are in business to make money. If they do not make money they do not stay in business. SWA has been good at making money. Others, lately, have not and are going to LABOR ( yes ....as hard as it is to face...we are very skilled and specialized labor) and pay, quality of life etc. has gone down.
Bottom line is... SWA has got a very big bag of marbles and it looks like they are ready to play.
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