Look before you leap, NJASAP!

[B19 Flyer]

NJW,

WAVE OFF! WAVE OFF! WAVE OFF!




Don't respond, this thread has gone on too long as it is.

R,
265

Her husband is former Air Force, she has no idea what you mean. But she'll make something up like she always does because she's an expert and all, ya know?

As long as she wants to attack me, call me names and speak on behalf of other groups she has no part of (FLOPS) and take credit for work she has never personally done, I think there is a need to point out the facts. The only thing I can do is just place the reminder, that she is only a pilot's wife who is entitled to her opinion.
She only supports pilot unions, not the frac industry or any other facet of aviation because she doesn't understand it.

 

[brokeflyer]

Her husband is former Air Force, she has no idea what you mean. But she'll make something up like she always does because she's an expert and all, ya know?

As long as she wants to attack me, call me names and speak on behalf of other groups she has no part of (FLOPS) and take credit for work she has never personally done, I think there is a need to point out the facts. The only thing I can do is just place the reminder, that she is only a pilot's wife who is entitled to her opinion.
She only supports pilot unions, not the frac industry or any other facet of aviation because she doesn't understand it.

sniffle sniffle.....sorry im all out of tissues for you....lol

pathetic...lol

 

[B19 Flyer]

sniffle sniffle.....sorry im all out of tissues for you....lol

pathetic...lol

I would expect you to be out of tissues.

Nobody cries like a union pilot. :crying:

 

[Ultra Grump]

Back on topic - where the hell is Mooneymite? I'm still waiting for the answers to my questions.

 

[Mooneymite]

Back on topic - where the hell is Mooneymite? I'm still waiting for the answers to my questions.

I've been watching the thread. It seems to have gotten hijacked by certain shrill voices.

I posed a question about the wisdom of further fragmenting the power of labor and the thread turned into a platform for all sorts of peeves about organized labor. That wasn't the intent of my original post (does anyone even remember the original post?!)

There have been some thoughtful posts, but there's been a lot of static, too. I'd be interested in hearing how NJASAP plans on influencing labor legislation and court appointees. Organized labor has effected changes over the years that we benefit from today. How will we keep from being over-run if organized labor is further fragmented?

I'm interested in hearing what people think. I certainly don't have the answer...just questions. I've enjoyed the thoughtful posts on this thread. I think we need to slow down and understand the depth of what NetJets' labor leaders are proposing. They aren't necessarily doing the wrong thing; I just hate to see a mad rush to do what may be the wrong thing with 40 years of retrospect.

MM

 

[IDEtoNJA]

I've been watching the thread. It seems to have gotten hijacked by certain shrill voices.

I posed a question about the wisdom of further fragmenting the power of labor and the thread turned into a platform for all sorts of peeves about organized labor. That wasn't the intent of my original post (does anyone even remember the original post?!)

There have been some thoughtful posts, but there's been a lot of static, too. I'd be interested in hearing how NJASAP plans on influencing labor legislation and court appointees. Organized labor has effected changes over the years that we benefit from today. How will we keep from being over-run if organized labor is further fragmented?

I'm interested in hearing what people think. I certainly don't have the answer...just questions. I've enjoyed the thoughtful posts on this thread. I think we need to slow down and understand the depth of what NetJets' labor leaders are proposing. They aren't necessarily doing the wrong thing; I just hate to see a mad rush to do what may be the wrong thing with 40 years of retrospect.

MM

MM,

What did the disaffiliation of the IBT from the AFL-CIO achieve? Would it be of greater benefit to re-affiliate ourselves we the AFL-CIO; and by extension, with ITUC? Would it be of greater benefit to join forces within a "loose" affiliation amid different pilot groups in the US and abroad?

Just as yourself, I have more question then answers.

IDEtoNJA

 

[Mooneymite]

MM,

What did the disaffiliation of the IBT from the AFL-CIO achieve? Would it be of greater benefit to re-affiliate ourselves we the AFL-CIO; and by extension, with ITUC? Would it be of greater benefit to join forces within a "loose" affiliation amid different pilot groups in the US and abroad?

Just as yourself, I have more question then answers.

IDEtoNJA

Interesting. I'm glad you're asking those questions. They need answers...or at least we need to try to answer them.

I see this as kind of a "confederation vs centralization" type question. Is the labor movement morphing into a confederation and away from strong central control, or is it just "de-constructing"?

Which will be more effective in combating big business? Who will set the "game plan" for labor, or will we all pursue our own agendas independently?

I'd like to know if there even IS a game plan for the survival of labor as we know it.

MM

 

[IDEtoNJA]

Interesting. I'm glad you're asking those questions. They need answers...or at least we need to try to answer them.

I see this as kind of a "confederation vs centralization" type question. Is the labor movement morphing into a confederation and away from strong central control, or is it just "de-constructing"?

Which will be more effective in combating big business? Who will set the "game plan" for labor, or will we all pursue our own agendas independently?

I'd like to know if there even IS a game plan for the survival of labor as we know it.

MM

MM,

I think that organized labor as we have known it has been "de-constructing" for a long time!

IDEtoNJA

 

[realityman]

MM,

I don't believe there was a rush into this. Our leaders have been hinting for quite a while now that this was coming. Yes, it's happening now and the rank and file has much less time to think through it than our leaders did, but they are very receptive to questions and I don't think any of them would shy away from giving you the answers you seek.

Which of course makes me wonder why you're posting these concerns on FI. Our own message boards, as well as contact info for ALL our leaders, is on the union boards.

But back on point. I had some questions myself, but they've been answered. And like I said, this has been thought through for quite a while by our leaders. I don't think they're taking rash or hasty action.

There is a certain commonality to all labor in this country. That can't be argued. But there are enough differences between the different working groups that I don't believe any one group can represent them all. Heck, ALPA can't seem to represent the interests of both the mainline and regional pilots who are members. How are IBT supposed to support our needs vs., say, the airlines that they represent. As has been mentioned before, the airlines and their members are probably best served by supporting user fees, while the fractionals, charters, and pure 91 operators will be taking the opposite stance. How would IBT reconcile these differences in representation?

Just read our own message boards and the posts from our leaders and you'll see many many times where we've asked the IBT for assistance and it simply was never given, and no explanation forthcoming as to why they wouldn't help. Bill Olsen himself has said the IBT really doesn't even understand our part of the industry, and doesn't seem to have any desire to educate themselves about it. While pilots, truckers, mechanics, and such have many labor needs in common, there are simply too many differences in other areas of our needs for the IBT to be able to effectively represent us all.

True, it might be nice to have their political connections (do they honestly have any these days that are effective?), but I truly believe they need to start by showing they're receptive to our immediate local needs, before they can stand up for us on a national scale. So far, they've failed miserably on the micro scale and I personally have no confidence in them on the macro scale.

 

[Mooneymite]

MM,

True, it might be nice to have their political connections (do they honestly have any these days that are effective?), but I truly believe they need to start by showing they're receptive to our immediate local needs, before they can stand up for us on a national scale. So far, they've failed miserably on the micro scale and I personally have no confidence in them on the macro scale.

Realityman, your complaint is one I see time and time again. I think it is misplaced. I don't think the national headquarters has any mandate to involve itself with local issues. There are far bigger issues for "national" to deal with. Lobbying, influencing legislation, and matters of public policy are the business of national headquarters.

We do not want the national headquarters either fighting our battles, or sticking its nose into our business. We need a national organization to keep this country safe for labor, and to make it a place where a local union will have laws and judges which will create an environment where the locals can prevail.

It is up to US, to do our part on the local level.

The more that labor fragments, the less favorable the political environment will become and the less favorable the outcome of the local battles.

It is a vicious circle where the less effective the national unions, the more defection there is and the more defection there is, the less effective the national.

Is NJASAP part of the problem, or part of the solution? I'll tell you in about 60 years.