Look before you leap, NJASAP!

[B19 Flyer]

Realityman, thank you for your post.

I guess I have made my point that national representation is extremely important in the "big picture". Apparently you agree. I further agree that the IBT needs some significant changes if it is to fulfill its duties of representation.

Where I get confused is in the world of "He said/she said" between 1108 and IBT national. I read what Bill O. writes, I read what Hoffa writes and they do not jibe. As much as I trust and respect Olsen, I also know he is skilled at presenting "his-story" in a way favorable to his position. Hoffa is also "spinning the facts".

In most cases, the truth lies somewhere between the two advocates. I've had 40 years in aviation watching this stuff and I become more skeptical everyday. I've been lead astray by trusted leaders before who were doing their best, but they were just wrong. I should have asked more questions and demanded more answers.

You and I are in agreement in how we process our facts, but there is a difference in which facts we accept as the gospel. I am not discrediting what you say, but I'm not convinced the data you are using are "fact".

The good news is that I'm about done in this industry. The changes we are discussing will not affect me directly. I hope the crowd pushing for fragmentation is doing the right thing and it all works out. I really do. I only ask that we "look before we leap". There is far too much crowd following and thoughtless cheerleading to make me comfortable.

Look, forget the fact that it’s a union, let’s talk about basic business.

Every corporation needs horsepower one way or another. The money put toward IBT national gives 1108 horsepower if they need it. Once split off, they will lose that national standing with big brother. Netjets has Berkshire Hathaway. As an example, if something goes upside down, NJ has horsepower that no other fractional has.

There are too many unexpected things that can happen in aviation where a union feels that it is necessary to intervene. I say it that way, because in my opinion, air carriers the size of NJ can take care of their own, but when unions feel like that have to get involved, the best way to protect their pilots is to have all the resources available.

In good times it’s easy to believe that splitting away from IBT is a good thing because IBT wasn’t paying a lot of attention during the recent negotiations. Also, where everything is all fine and wonderful it is easy to believe that the “premium” that is being paid to IBT is wasted.

In fact, it’s an insurance policy that supplies the muscle that locally, NJASAP will never have. For the next 20 years, there may never be an issue that IBT national has to intervene in, but if there is an event, you realize how big a mistake that it was to need them and have them turn away laughing when you really need the help.

Splitting away from IBT is a huge mistake.

 

[Fozzy]

*yawn*

 

[netjetwife]

Yyyyaaaawwwnnn. Foz, that's contagious. Nudge me when something other than FUD is posted...

 

[gutshotdraw]

Splitting away from IBT is a huge mistake.

If B19 thinks it's a mistake, NJASAP is probably on the right track........

 

[netjetwife]

Not only are they on the right track, they're blazing a new trail in the frac industry. The majority of pilots posting here agree with NJASAP leaders that it's the right thing to do. Not to mention the 70% plus NJA pilots who have already voiced their determination to gain their independence by sending in cards and donations. For those involved in the collection, checking the mail isn't a chore--it's an honor.

A public thanks to each NJ pilot on the honor roll. 2000 of you so far...in just 3 weeks!! That's awesome! Your unity, camaraderie, and focus on the future is a source of pride that all NJ pilots (both A&I) can share. You do not need the Teamsters. You have one another, the support of your families, partnership with the Company, and the respect of your peers in aviation. Kudos to you all! NJW

 

[acaTerry]

quote]




Realtyman, you may not want to fund the truckers' fight, but you miss a very important truth: labor must stick together. .

This one line sums up the reason for NJASAP. Teamsters didn't stick with us, but was right there to take their money. To me this is like sending money to the bank and then not being allowed to withdraw it. My card is in.

 

[acaTerry]

She is entitled to her opinion and can say anything she wants, no matter how disrespectful it is to aviation professionals in the fractional as well as other aviation entities by her statements as to the method of which they have invested in their careers.
You are more guilty of that than ANYONE I have seen on this board.

I don't like unions from personal experience and have never seen a union do anything good for a company as a whole.
There's this place called NJA, heard of it?

She is nothing more than a pilot's wife. She hasn't invested in a career in aviation. She hasn't paid her dues, doesn't personally draw a paycheck and can only ride on the coat-tails of he husband.
This is particularly offensive. Any woman who goes through a career in aviation and sticks with her man is a gem. Having to be alone so many nights, be able to switch gears from head of household one week to settling back the next is not easy. Especially if you have kids. So she does not draw a check? BIG F-ING DEAL! Is that your measure of a human being? I rather like the idea that my wife raises decent, upstanding kids than chases money while the kids are out spraypainting walls and such. You must be divorced.

She writes pages to discredit my opinion of unions, yet when I point out facts and attitudes she has that are detrimental to the industry, she calls me names and says that I twist words. Not true.
You sound like a 4th grader crying to his teacher. Waah! NJW is picking on me!

See above...

 

[netjetwife]

Thanks, for sticking up for frac families, 'Terry. We have 3 kids and I do have to switch gears constantly. The lifestyle isn't easy and those frac families that are underpaid have it the worst. I can totally sympathize with them because a few years ago my husband was only paid 28K a year. Our frac families at the bottom of the ladder are hard pressed to make ends meet, much less be able to afford any breaks or treats to make the lifestyle easier. As a stay-home mom I'm in the most overlooked, under-respected class of workers out there. For the fudspinner to suggest that I don't respect non-pilot workers is total garbage.
Thanks again!
Netjetwife

PS The frac lifestyle requires kids to make a lot of sacrifices, too. Frac kids deserve to have one parent home with them full-time and as the children of professionals it damn well should be financially possibly. The fact that for many frac families it isn't is completely unacceptable. They deserve college-savings accounts, too. But how many of our underpaid frac pilots can put the money aside?

 

[cjs]

Thanks, for sticking up for frac families, 'Terry. We have 3 kids and I do have to switch gears constantly. The lifestyle isn't easy and those frac families that are underpaid have it the worst. I can totally sympathize with them because a few years ago my husband was only paid 28K a year. Our frac families at the bottom of the ladder are hard pressed to make ends meet, much less be able to afford any breaks or treats to make the lifestyle easier. As a stay-home mom I'm in the most overlooked, under-respected class of workers out there. For the fudspinner to suggest that I don't respect non-pilot workers is total garbage.
Thanks again!
Netjetwife

I feel like I'm watching one of those "Save the Children" infomercials. You and your husband made a CHOICE stick it out in aviation. Don't even try to compare yourself with someone who really is up s**t creek. Makes about as much sense as someone complaining about how hard it is to make a living polisihing turds. You knowingly walk into a lake of fire and want sympathy?

And what do you care what other people think about stay at home moms? Are you in it for yourself or your family? So much outrage, so much victimhood ..

PS The frac lifestyle requires kids to make a lot of sacrifices, too. Frac kids deserve to have one parent home with them full-time and as the children of professionals it damn well should be financially possibly. The fact that for many frac families it isn't is completely unacceptable. They deserve college-savings accounts, too. But how many of our underpaid frac pilots can put the money aside?

Nobody deserves anything they haven't earned. Who are you to decide what person A deserves over person B? You think pilots deserve more than A&P guys (pardon me, "support folk) because you're married to a pilot. Why the h*ll should anyone care what you think someone deserves?

Let them decide what they "deserve" when they negotiate their hiring package. If the company rejects it, either take your lumps or hit the road .. but don't drag anyone else into this BS.

 

[acaTerry]

I feel like I'm watching one of those "Save the Children" infomercials. You and your husband made a CHOICE stick it out in aviation. Don't even try to compare yourself with someone who really is up s**t creek. Makes about as much sense as someone complaining about how hard it is to make a living polisihing turds. You knowingly walk into a lake of fire and want sympathy?

And what do you care what other people think about stay at home moms? Are you in it for yourself or your family? So much outrage, so much victimhood ..



Nobody deserves anything they haven't earned. Who are you to decide what person A deserves over person B? You think pilots deserve more than A&P guys (pardon me, "support folk) because you're married to a pilot. Why the h*ll should anyone care what you think someone deserves?

Let them decide what they "deserve" when they negotiate their hiring package. If the company rejects it, either take your lumps or hit the road .. but don't drag anyone else into this BS.

Arrgh, methinks this clown needs the ole NJW boot