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Let the whip begin...PCL vs. CJC

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Grinder10 said:
This was sent out today:

The final award in the ongoing scope arbitration is expected by weeks end. While the details are still not available for dissemination the arbitrator’s decision is very favorable for ALPA. A full analysis of the decision should be available by next week.
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to pcl pilots?
from alpa?
 
Awesome news...

V1

Oh!!! I will sleep so good tonight.......
 
vectorvictor said:
I would be in favor of a blended seniority list with respect to date of hire. It would be fair for everyone involved, both companies are pretty young.

VV
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You guys wanted nothing to do with helping the pinnacle pilots. You said that our scope did not protect us and that we were just going to have to deal with it and get over it. We were just going to have to be OK with us buying you guys shiny new airplanes. And shunned our pilot groups right by voting out our union, in an attempt to block a seniority merger. All to protect your fast upgrade and explosive future growth. And as a collective group, you said that you did not want to waste 2% of you salary.

Now you here that our union and OUR union dues have accomplished what you guys said it could not, you want us to be fair and give you DOH. No F-n way.

Over the last year, what has your pilot group accomplished to be fair to the pinnacle pilots. What have you guys accomplished to help us with our LEGAL, CONTRACTUAL rights.

You have done nothing, and you should ask for nothing.
 
Smarta$$ said:
You guys wanted nothing to do with helping the pinnacle pilots. You said that our scope did not protect us and that we were just going to have to deal with it and get over it. We were just going to have to be OK with us buying you guys shiny new airplanes. And shunned our pilot groups right by voting out our union, in an attempt to block a seniority merger. All to protect your fast upgrade and explosive future growth. And as a collective group, you said that you did not want to waste 2% of you salary.

Now you here that our union and OUR union dues have accomplished what you guys said it could not, you want us to be fair and give you DOH. No F-n way.

Over the last year, what has your pilot group accomplished to be fair to the pinnacle pilots. What have you guys accomplished to help us with our LEGAL, CONTRACTUAL rights.

You have done nothing, and you should ask for nothing.
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Are you referring to Victor Vector specifically, or are you speaking to the CJC pilot group as a whole?

If you DO think that everyone over here didn't support PNCL ALPA you are mistaken...we lost the vote, but we only lost by 4 votes.

As previously stated, not all of us over here are MEM tools, that have no clue about the industry. If youre gonna push for a staple job...go for it, my QOL can't get much worse, but youre not gonna make any friends, and when we are stapled to the bottom, you will be purposely installing a divided pilot group.

:bomb:
 
LanceAir said:
Are you referring to Victor Vector specifically, or are you speaking to the CJC pilot group as a whole?

If you DO think that everyone over here didn't support PNCL ALPA you are mistaken...we lost the vote, but we only lost by 4 votes.

As previously stated, not all of us over here are MEM tools, that have no clue about the industry. If youre gonna push for a staple job...go for it, my QOL can't get much worse, but youre not gonna make any friends, and when we are stapled to the bottom, you will be purposely installing a divided pilot group.

:bomb:
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You know, I am just pissed. I don't know Vector victor from anyone else. I just know that in the last year, CJC pilots have accomplished nothing to help us in our fight. If you have been around these discussions over the last year, you would see that most told us that we had no rights. That they would and should get all the shiny new airplanes that we bought for colgan. And that they didn't want to waste their 2% until things started to go dad for them in the future. In other words, they wanted to get all the growth for the forseeable future and then when the whipsaw pendulum started to swing the other way, they would them vote in a union. They wanted nothing to do with a seniority integration. But now that they see that our dues have put them in a disadvantage, they want us to be fair.

I wish thier was a way to be fair to 49%. But I don't feel like rewarding those that made every effort to keep us from what is rightfully ours.
 
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I have been around these threads for the last year, I just dont post very often...

Youre right, there were flamebaiter's from the CJC side saying that they didnt want to vote in the union for all sorts of stupid reasons, I have to deal with those exact same people all the time. Some people don't want to lose their 2%, some people think that the colgan's are gonna take care of them(even with the stockholders) and some actually admitted that they "just dont like unions"...

but as I previously posted, installing a divided pilot group will only hurt "US" down the road.
 
Smarta$$ said:
Now you here that our union and OUR union dues have accomplished what you guys said it could not, you want us to be fair and give you DOH. No F-n way.
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I don't think what anyone gets will be up to you or CJC. An arbitrator will decide. It will be interesting for the arbitrator to look at career expectations. Pncl has jets; CJC does not. CJC has a shorter upgrade than PNCL. Each side has something different. Pncl is buying the Q, but CJC was given the flying by CAL. Without the latter, there is no need for the former.
 
How can it really be "whipsawing", when both places suck to work there to begin with....
 
FO 4 Life said:
I don't think what anyone gets will be up to you or CJC. An arbitrator will decide. It will be interesting for the arbitrator to look at career expectations. Pncl has jets; CJC does not. CJC has a shorter upgrade than PNCL. Each side has something different. Pncl is buying the Q, but CJC was given the flying by CAL. Without the latter, there is no need for the former.
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This is assuming that Colgan management puts up a fight for their pilots. If management chooses not to incur the time lost or money spent on arbitration they will give alpa what they want. Without a Union management speaks for the Colgan pilot group.
 
Thanks pinnacle pilots for being right and looking forward to bending Colgan guys over. Thank goodness there is one pilot group out there who is just and right. congrats!!!!
 
Suupah, I cannot believe that you are going to believe what a few anonymous morons post on this board.

The Pinnacle MEC has been on record for a long, long time that any integration would be done in fairest manner possible to all participants. Translation: DOH or percentile based. Either way, no one in ANY position of authority has talked about bending anyone over. The only ones actually talking about that are a few loud-mouthed hotheads who don't have any influence.
 
suupah said:
Thanks pinnacle pilots for being right and looking forward to bending Colgan guys over. Thank goodness there is one pilot group out there who is just and right. congrats!!!!
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We warned you and told you to get a union. You guys said you didn't need one. I am glad I pay my 2%.
 
From a different board,
"It was announced tonight that the company has violated our scope clause section 1.2.f (i believe) and is required to comply with this section by putting fences in place to protect pinnacle pilots jobs, and eventually merge seniority lists between pinnacle and colgan pilots."

So both sides get fenced to protect what each have and will merge the list after x number years. Sorry SmartOne, no staple.
 
FO 4 Life said:
So both sides get fenced to protect what each have and will merge the list after x number years. Sorry SmartOne, no staple.
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You're correct that there won't be a staple, but the list will likely be merged long before the "years" that you think. Probably late this year, or early next year. How the fences will be designed and how the seniority will be merged has yet to be determined.
 
All I can say is bring it on. I CAN'T WAIT to become one group and one voice with the PCL folks.

Hey - all you CJC new hires who are mad that the ALPA boogy man might come staple you to the bottom of the list and are mad that someone might rain on your party:

There are pilots out there you can thank for this situation. They voted NO last summer for ALPA. Ask your Captain (if he didn't come off the street) how it went down. The Tools out there know who they are. I know there are 49% of the colgan pilots out there who know what's up. To the other tools, we told you so. We told you so. WE TOLD YOU SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This b.s. has been going on so long, I don't know why on earth anyone doesn't get it.

Can't wait for the merger!! It will benifet both pilot groups immensley in many ways. Uncle Phil and our Buddy loose the ammo in their gun if we are one group.
 
Fred Rogers said:
All I can say is bring it on. I CAN'T WAIT to become one group and one voice with the PCL folks.

Hey - all you CJC new hires who are mad that the ALPA boogy man might come staple you to the bottom of the list and are mad that someone might rain on your party:

There are pilots out there you can thank for this situation. They voted NO last summer for ALPA. Ask your Captain (if he didn't come off the street) how it went down. The Tools out there know who they are. I know there are 49% of the colgan pilots out there who know what's up. To the other tools, we told you so. We told you so. WE TOLD YOU SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This b.s. has been going on so long, I don't know why on earth anyone doesn't get it.

Can't wait for the merger!! It will benifet both pilot groups immensley in many ways. Uncle Phil and our Buddy loose the ammo in their gun if we are one group.
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Bingo!!
 
Not that I would be sorry to see ALPA here, but I can't help pointing out how American this process became: They couldn't get what they wanted through a fair vote, so they use the legal system to go through the back door and impose their will. How Democratic of them.
 
cjcpilot said:
Not that I would be sorry to see ALPA here, but I can't help pointing out how American this process became: They couldn't get what they wanted through a fair vote, so they use the legal system to go through the back door and impose their will. How Democratic of them.
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How exactly is their legally binding contract a "back door?" They have a contract that's been in place since 1999, and they are simply enforcing it. This grievance has absolutely nothing to do with the representational vote that failed at Colgan. In fact, this grievance was filed before that vote even took place.
 
cjcpilot said:
Not that I would be sorry to see ALPA here, but I can't help pointing out how American this process became: They couldn't get what they wanted through a fair vote, so they use the legal system to go through the back door and impose their will. How Democratic of them.
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Back door? Arbitrator rules that Pinnacle violated their contract with it's pilots and you blame the pilots? Howabout Pinnacle management violating it's agreement with it's employees? Colgan pilots are just in the middle of it.

Pinnacle ALPA went to bat for it's membership, plain and simple.
 
cjcpilot said:
Not that I would be sorry to see ALPA here, but I can't help pointing out how American this process became: They couldn't get what they wanted through a fair vote, so they use the legal system to go through the back door and impose their will. How Democratic of them.
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dude, for real?
 
cjcpilot said:
Not that I would be sorry to see ALPA here, but I can't help pointing out how American this process became: They couldn't get what they wanted through a fair vote, so they use the legal system to go through the back door and impose their will. How Democratic of them.
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Seriously? If I was a Nun with a ruler...your knuckles would hurt.....


V1
 
We no longer are sitting at the craps table... we just up'd the ante...at a whole new game.

Game on!!

V1
 
cjcpilot said:
Not that I would be sorry to see ALPA here, but I can't help pointing out how American this process became: They couldn't get what they wanted through a fair vote, so they use the legal system to go through the back door and impose their will. How Democratic of them.
Click to expand...
Hate to rain on your parade, but this grievance was not put in place to force representation on you...it was put in place to enforce our scope language. If you don't want to join ALPA, then don't. You don't have to, regardless if you are on the PCL list or the Colgan list or a combined list.

Would you rather continue to be represented by Buddy Casey and his "Colgan Pilot Group"?
 

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