Legacy Bashfest - Bring it on!

[Silver Wings]

Silver wings--Did you actually read the article before you posted it?

.......

I'd even rush to the defense of the Legacy if it was the focus of a similar article.TC

Yes I read the article, and broadly I agree with you.
The point was that this thread has unfairly labbelled the Legacy WSCoD...... when there are over 6 million hours of expereince with the airframe and not a single fatality. If you consider the fatalities with the CRJ/Challenger combination then you have a meanginful statistical difference !

Are Legacy/ERJ pilots safer than Challenger/CRJ pilots ? I very much doubt that.

Are the conditions of operation of the Legacy/ERJ and Challenger/CRJ so very different ? Answer no.

So logically the only differing variable is the aircraft. Hence the discrepancy in safety performance could reasonably be infurred as being due to the aircraft.

Or pure bad luck. But that's a lot of bad luck and it's beginning to push the limits of credibility.


Personal opinion, the Challenger/CRJ is probably no different to any other certified aircraft, and is quite safe when operated and maintained correctly.....howver the Legacy/ERJ has achieved a proven 'best in class' position in this regards by keeping a clean sheet over a very long time and lot of flying..........

Hence the reaosn why it is so wrong to put the WSCoD label on the airframe.

Heregoes, why not rename it the 'Whistling **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**can of Safety'......

Doesn't quite have the ring to it does it though ?

 

[Silver Wings]

Silver wings--Did you actually read the article before you posted it?

The Ebersol plane had brake problems in Florida... The article said it landed in Palm Springs. Is there a Palm Springs, FL?

Since when did anybody in the USA have a sense of geography ?
This is a journalist as well....... you can't expect miracles.

 

[murfdawg998]

all people should be well-versed in geography, IMHO...but pilots should definitely know a thing or two about it!!

so what is this thread about again?? oh yea...WSCoD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Silver Wings]

all people should be well-versed in geography, IMHO...but pilots should definitely know a thing or two about it!!

so what is this thread about again?? oh yea...WSCoD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I only wish your comments were true, but last summer I watched B52's from US bomb the wrong airfield....I was at Farnborough aishow...and they bombed Blackbushe..... oops....and that's with GPS I presume. (Blackbushe...small prvincial airfield....Franbough ...major Internalional airshow in prgoress on much bigger field). And it wasn't for the first time either. So you can't always agree with pilots.....on Geography.....

and reading your final post looks like you can't trust pilots like you on being able to tell a WSCoD from the aircraft with the best safety record (hrs flown vs. 3 dead) ever built........either. (In case you didn't know the ERJ series with over 6 million hours an no fatalities has the best record of any I've seen to date anyway.).

 

[Gulfstream 200]

There should not be any fatalities when you fly a WSoD between Newark and Cleveland for 6 million hours.

Heck, a 9$/hr chimp can do that. Cont. Express proves that point.

Is using "death" in WSoD maybe a little exaggerated?...yes I suppose...but the point is the aircraft is really a Piece of $hit. Its noisy, it rattles, its uncomfotable, it has lame perf #'s, etc...all the qualaties a bizjet is not supposed to have - and for someone to come here and attest to how its going to compete with GV's etc....well, he's going to get it!

To please the PC crowds maybe we should change it to simply "Whistling $hitbox"???

 

[banned username 2]

Basically LAGacyDriver (i.e. Skull-One) came looking for a fight and got a good old fashioned a$$-whoopin' handed to him...

 

[GVFlyer]

There should not be any fatalities when you fly a WSoD between Newark and Cleveland for 6 million hours.

Heck, a 9$/hr chimp can do that. Cont. Express proves that point.

Very Funny! Still laughing!

(What happened to G-Unit and Fiddy-cent?)

GV

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Very Funny! Still laughing!

(What happened to G-Unit and Fiddy-cent?)

GV

Fiddy be back, just tied up at the moment slappin some ho's over on the fractional board...

....

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

So Ace, does that mean you work for a company with three nearly sequentially serial numbered GIVs?

Nope. GV.

Ace

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Ace,

You're wrong to call GVFlyer stupid (as in Keep it Simple Stupid) because he uses a different writing style than you do. You come off looking petty. I like his posts; I think they're informative and entertaining. He gives me an insight into aircraft certification and manufacturing that I wouldn't otherwise have. I suggest that if you don't like his posts, don't read them.

As for me, I'll keep reading his posts and those of the other pro's like FalconCapt.

-SkyGirl-

I'm glad you like his posts - keep reading and keep learning.

If you look (not to closely) at my KISS remark, it had a little next to it. Cheeky, get it. Obviously all of us that have thousands of hours in Gulfstreams have something of value (most of the time) to say, not just the ones who make the longest and most frequent posts. GVFlyer has a lot to say about ALL airplanes and takes the time to make some pretty interesting posts for us all to read. I commend him for that. And also for knowing everything about the Gulfstreams <---(did you see the face?)

Ace

 

[GVFlyer]

I only wish your comments were true, but last summer I watched B52's from US bomb the wrong airfield....I was at Farnborough aishow...and they bombed Blackbushe..... oops....and that's with GPS I presume. (Blackbushe...small prvincial airfield....Franbough ...major Internalional airshow in prgoress on much bigger field). And it wasn't for the first time either. So you can't always agree with pilots.....on Geography.....

How did you happen to be at the Farnborough Air Show - manning the Legacy static display perhaps?

GV

 

[cosmotheassman]

This post has gotten way too long. look at the topic then click last page and read. Absolutely nothing to do with the topic. lmao

 

[LegacyDriver]

Sorry this took so long...


GV I will gladly rebut the FO commentary you cited.

Comparing the first five Legacy jets (N525CW, etc.) to those being built now (N809SG, N825SG being the last two delivered to my knowledge) -- the LEGACY II -- is like comparing a G-IV to a G-IVSP. They are substantially different.

The facts that differentiate N525CW (Legacy I) to current-build Legacy IIs (N825SG, etc.) are the following:

__________________________

1) Engines - Legacy I = A1P
Legacy II = A1E (Substantial changes in thrust and SFC between the two).

__________________________


2) Aerodynamics - Legacy I has: Windshield Wipers, standard air inlets for avionics bays, etc., standard RJ unfaired wheels, and a lack of gap seals (among other things).

Legacy II - No wipers, Faired main wheels, intake doors for avionics compartments etc. that close in flight to reduce drag, and gap seals for all control surfaces.

__________________________

3) BOW - Legacy I weighs over 40,000 lbs empty (N525CW is close to 41,000 lbs).

Legacy II weights under 40,000 lbs. (N825SG weighs under 39,400 BOW, a figure that continues to go down with each airplane as they learn how to do it better).

__________________________

4) Fuel - Legacy I had a different center fuel tank and tank system. Fire suppressing foam was installed in the tanks that later proved substantially beyond the requirements for the job.

Legacy II, based on this information, removed a large amount of fire suppression foam from the center tanks resulting in an increase in fuel volume available. The resulting fuel increase is anywhere from 800-1200 lbs depending on how you measure it.

__________________________

These changes, among others, make the current production airplanes a significantly different animal than the first five built. The AOM lists them as different machines.


The range on the Legacy II is superior to the I by a substantial margin due to the changes listed above. The first five airplanes, now operating at Flops, are not representative of new-build airplanes. The performance is well beyond 3,200-3,500 NM with the Legacy II. When FL410 comes the range will be even more. NY-London and back is no sweat even with headwinds.

I don't know what else I can say. I am repeating myself here.

Also, with the exception of the wing crunch for taxi the first five Flops jets have been flying in excess of 135 hours/month with a 99.5% reliability rate...

 

[semperfido]

jeez, i am sure that if i was in your position i would be promoting it as well. BUT, give it a rest already. it will have its niche. just not with the people that can and do own Gs and Gexs. maybe with the hooters of the world. apples and oranges.

 

[LegacyDriver]

jeez, i am sure that if i was in your position i would be promoting it as well. BUT, give it a rest already. it will have its niche. just not with the people that can and do own Gs and Gexs. maybe with the hooters of the world. apples and oranges.

But you are so wrong here... Some people are leaving the G-IV world for the Legacy. I flew a guy on behalf of my boss last week and he said he switched from a G-IV to a Legacy and he doesn't regret it one bit. "You just can't find a more affordable airplane than this one. The acquisition cost alone is reason enough to go with it. It could be a little taller in the cabin but that's a minor quibble." We talked for fifteen minutes about it and the guy has no regrets leaving the IV for the EMB.

He may not be the rule, but a sale is a sale. Come on...if the Legacy weren't a threat to Gulfstream and Dassault then the vitriolity in this thread would be gone.

People don't become rich by wasting money. If a Legacy will do the job for them for less money then the prudent person will buy it. It's that simple.