Legacy Bashfest - Bring it on!

[LegacyDriver]

C'mon now. You are really embarassing yourself. There are some very experienced pilots on this board, some who were involved in the flight tests that produced the "outdated articles and performance numbers".

There is nobody on here involved in the testing of the Legacy... In any case that would be irrelevant since the Dash TWO version of the Legacy has a number of refinements that improved its performance significantly over the Dash One.

Also the peformance numbers are based on 270/.63M and I do not fly that profile if I am going for range. I climb at max rate through FL250. This amounts to major fuel savings over the book values (based on existing RJ climb profiles).

 

[fokkerjet]

Here's a comparison to help stir the pot a little:

TEB to OAK, SFO as an alternate. 325 lb payload (1 passenger plus luggage and crew luggage), optium routing and altitudes per JetPlan. Max fuel, except GV, I used 5000 lb landing fuel.

EMB - 5+37, 13429 burn and FL350, step 390 3+00 hrs into flight. M.78 cruise (max allowed in JetPlan), and 4387 lbs remaining at alternate. Max passenger load for this flight could be up to 10.
F2TH - 6+00, 9216 burn and FL430, step 470 3+15 hrs into flight. M75 cruise (in order to land with 2000 lbs), and 2265 lbs remaining at alternate. Max passenger load for this mission could be up to 4.
GV - 5+24, 14,480 burn and FL430, step to 470 1+00 hrs into flight. M83 cruise (standard cruise for us), and 5000 lbs remaining at alternate. The max passenger load for this flight could be up to 16 (really 19).

Looks like the Falcon could be in trouble here

 

[JetBlast2000]

And you're basing this on your experience in any of the types being compared or on the rantings of a Legacy salesman and demo pilot? Oh, that's right, you've never flown a jet before. So you believe Silverwings and LegacyDriver over the dozens of experienced corporate pilots, with types, that have told you the Legacy is a POS. I bet they're paying you top dollar, too.

I’m not bashing anything. I can’t wait to fly the Legacy. No a/p will ever please every pilot. Some characteristics are better than others. Jet = better than TP! At this point I’m willing to give all you fools a little leeway. No matter what info is posted here, you bet your a$$ I’m verifying it. I’ll obviously know a bit more when I’m done with class and have a few hours under my belt. As far as all this:

EMB - 5+37, 13429 burn and FL350, step 390 3+00 hrs into flight. M.78 cruise (max allowed in JetPlan), and 4387 lbs remaining at alternate.
F2TH - 6+00, 9216 burn and FL430, step 470 3+15 hrs into flight. M75 cruise (in order to land with 2000 lbs), and 2265 lbs remaining at alternate.
GV - 5+24, 14,480 burn and FL430, step to 470 1+00 hrs into flight. M83 cruise (standard cruise for us), and 5000 lbs remaining at alternate.

Sure it’s a fun debate, but I couldn’t give a rat’s a$$ at this point. I’m just glad to have a job.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Here's a comparison to help stir the pot a little:

TEB to OAK, SFO as an alternate. 325 lb payload (1 passenger plus luggage and crew luggage), optium routing and altitudes per JetPlan. Max fuel, except GV, I used 5000 lb landing fuel.

EMB - 5+37, 13429 burn and FL350, step 390 3+00 hrs into flight. M.78 cruise (max allowed in JetPlan), and 4387 lbs remaining at alternate. Max passenger load for this flight could be up to 10.
F2TH - 6+00, 9216 burn and FL430, step 470 3+15 hrs into flight. M75 cruise (in order to land with 2000 lbs), and 2265 lbs remaining at alternate. Max passenger load for this mission could be up to 4.
GV - 5+24, 14,480 burn and FL430, step to 470 1+00 hrs into flight. M83 cruise (standard cruise for us), and 5000 lbs remaining at alternate. The max passenger load for this flight could be up to 16 (really 19).

Looks like the Falcon could be in trouble here

Two things: Legacy goes direct to 390 (I do it all the time) and will got direct to 410 when we get the go ahead.

Also, apparently GV goes direct to 510. You need to adjust your numbers some.

I would be curious to see the GIV numbers...

 

[semperfido]

Also, apparently GV goes direct to 510. ...

Wrong, maybe with approx 9k of fuel left (off top of head)

 

[banned username 2]

Here's a comparison to help stir the pot a little:

TEB to OAK, SFO as an alternate. 325 lb payload (1 passenger plus luggage and crew luggage), optium routing and altitudes per JetPlan. Max fuel, except GV, I used 5000 lb landing fuel.

EMB - 5+37, 13429 burn and FL350, step 390 3+00 hrs into flight. M.78 cruise (max allowed in JetPlan), and 4387 lbs remaining at alternate. Max passenger load for this flight could be up to 10.
F2TH - 6+00, 9216 burn and FL430, step 470 3+15 hrs into flight. M75 cruise (in order to land with 2000 lbs), and 2265 lbs remaining at alternate. Max passenger load for this mission could be up to 4.
GV - 5+24, 14,480 burn and FL430, step to 470 1+00 hrs into flight. M83 cruise (standard cruise for us), and 5000 lbs remaining at alternate. The max passenger load for this flight could be up to 16 (really 19).

Looks like the Falcon could be in trouble here

I don't see any trouble... KTEB - KOAK, KSFO alternate...

Falcon 50EX - 5+29, 11,732 burn and FL390, step 430 0+45 hrs into flight. M82 cruise and 3,150 lbs remaining at alternate. Max passenger load for this mission could be up to 9. (Could land with 3,800 lbs if departed full fuel)
Runway Required (15°C, no wind): 4,420 ft, 2nd Segment Climb OEI: 6.3%

Falcon 900EX - 5+27, 12,280 burn and FL390, step 430 3+00 hrs into flight. M82 cruise and 3,000 lbs remaining at alternate. Max passenger load for this mission could be up to 12 (well really 19). (Could land with 8,720 lbs if departed full fuel)
Runway Required (15°C, no wind): 3,990 ft, 2nd Segment Climb OEI: 9.3%

 

[semperfido]

GV - 5+24, 14,480 burn and FL430, step to 470 1+00 hrs into flight. M83 cruise

most people i know would fly this @ m85 in a g5 plus most g5s probably don't carry 16 pax

 

[fokkerjet]

Both the Falcon and Gulfstream are in our fleet, so I used our BOW's, SOP and configurations......I have no idea what's correct or not with the Legacy; the BOW came from Embraer's website, and performance was from Jeppesen.

Falcon 2000 - Runway Required (15c, no wind): 5,830 ft, 2nd Segment Climb OEI: 3.9%.

Since you say the data is wrong, why don't you contribute with the Legacy's correct numbers...........

In this example, the Falcon is at max gross with 4 passengers, the WSofD is at about 96% with 10, and the Gulfstream is somewhere around 80% with 16......GVFlyer could provide much better data, but I believe the G350 would come in at around 98%, but that's with 16 passengers still.

 

[GVFlyer]

most people i know would fly this @ m85 in a g5 plus most g5s probably don't carry 16 pax

Although normal cuise fo the G550 is M 0.85, the jet burns 7.7 percent less fuel at M 0.83. With the current high fuel prices some operators have elected to cruise at M 0.83 to save fuel. Gulfstream provides cruise charts for M 0.80, M 0.83, M 0.85 and M 0.87, with 8 passenger ranges of 6,750 nm, 6,500 nm, 6,000 nm, and 5,000 nm respectively. You're right, statistics show that the average passenger load for the GV/G550 is six, but I think Fokkerjet was showing a maximum capability for the fuel burn as oppossed to a normalized pasenger load..

GV

 

[semperfido]

Although normal cuise fo the G550 is M 0.85, the jet burns 7.7 percent less fuel at M 0.83. With the current high fuel prices some operators have elected to cruise at M 0.83 to save fuel. Gulfstream provides cruise charts for M 0.80, M 0.83, M 0.85 and M 0.87, with 8 passenger ranges of 6,750 nm, 6,500 nm, 6,000 nm, and 5,000 nm respectively. You're right, statistics show that the average passenger load for the GV/G550 is six, but I think Fokkerjet was showing a maximum capability for the fuel burn as oppossed to a normalized pasenger load..

GV

i agree with that