Latest on UAL recalls

[250scp]

Gents,

Need some tutoring...for those going on mil leave when receiving the recall from UAL, whats the big deal in choosing your domicile/equipment? Does it affect you if you're still 3+ years away from returning and, if so, do you have an opportunity to "rebid" as you get closer to your actual return date?

As we (finally) get to the bottom of this list, as I understand it, the domiciles being offered are ORD/DCA on the 737/320 fleet. By taking one of those options now, do I penalize myself later when I return at a later date and miss out on a 767?

School me, please.

 

[Andy]

I'm sure this has been posted, but I can't seem to find it. Are there a number of retirements coming up at UAL or is it a younger pilot group a la Delta?

Retirements using the 1 July 2006 Seniority list:
2006 141 (1 Jul and later)
2007 263
2008 234
2009 231
2010 201
2011 167
2012 228
2013 245
2014 237
2015 270
2016 331
2017 307
2018 381
2019 355
2020 463
2021 506
2022 506
2023 575
2024 574
2025 538
2026 560
2027 408
2028 300
2029 226
2030 153

Retirements are ~4% per year. In spite of what you read about advancement occurring due to growth, retirements are a very significant part of advancement at United. Current growth rates are running 1-2%. Expect growth rates to increase with new aircraft orders. Needless to say, any growth would die with a merger.

 

[Andy]

Gents,

Need some tutoring...for those going on mil leave when receiving the recall from UAL, whats the big deal in choosing your domicile/equipment? Does it affect you if you're still 3+ years away from returning and, if so, do you have an opportunity to "rebid" as you get closer to your actual return date?

As we (finally) get to the bottom of this list, as I understand it, the domiciles being offered are ORD/DCA on the 737/320 fleet. By taking one of those options now, do I penalize myself later when I return at a later date and miss out on a 767?

School me, please.

If the music stops, you're going to remain sitting in the same seat. A merger would result in the music stopping.
If you're able to rebid after three years into a widebody position, no problems. Personally, I don't see this 3 yr freeze as lasting all that long after newhire classes start.
As for waiting, if you're near the bottom of the list, you likely won't get a 767. If you've bypassed and wait until you're on your last chance, you could be very junior in your class.

 

[250scp]

Thanks Andy.

Understand the equation changes if a merger happens or, more likely, the retirement age gets bumped to match the new ICAO standard of 65 that goes into effect next week.

My question should have been better worded; is there any benefit to bidding a domicile or equipment if you have no intention of returning for another 4 years? Why have others been concerned with what was available in their class if they intend on going on mil leave? Thanks.

 

[C5 Guy]

Recall Update - 20 November 2006

Here Is The Latest:



To all furloughees,

United has announced the second and third recall classes of 2007. Offers of recall have been made for a 22 January and a 5 February 2007 recall class since the last “Recall Update”. There were 145 initial recall offerings made, plus an additional 17 pilots coming off of recall bypass for these two (2) recall classes. Recall has been offered down to seniority number 8516 (DOH 18 February 2001).

The following are the recall statistics as of 17 November 2006:

As of the 6 November 2006 recall class:
Recalled - Active Status 576
Recalled – LOA 354
Bypassed 795
Resigned 22
Retired (over age 60) 2
Deceased 2

Total Pilots remaining on Furlough/Furlough Bypass 1216


Including the 4 December 2006, 8 January, 22 January and 5 February 2007 recall classes:
Total Offered Recall 2029
Total Furlough Status 139 (have not been offered recall)
Total Responses to date 1945
Recalled - Active or Accepted 654 33.6%
Recalled - LOA or LOA upon return 466 23.9%
Bypassed or Verbal Bypass 803 41.2%
Resigned 22 1.1%

Based on the current statistics, we believe that initial recall offers will be made to all United furloughees by a March 2007 recall class offering. The company has indicated that it plans to recall between 20 and 40 “active” pilots a month through the spring of 2007, though no further class dates have been announced.


UALMEC Furlough Coordinator

 

[Andy]

My question should have been better worded; is there any benefit to bidding a domicile or equipment if you have no intention of returning for another 4 years? Why have others been concerned with what was available in their class if they intend on going on mil leave? Thanks.

I don't see much logic in holding out for a particular domicile if you're going to be on mil leave for more than a few months. You can snag a lateral to your desired location in vacancy bids. Well, unless SEA is your desired domicile.

I will be on mil leave until spring 2009 - return to United for a year, and then back on mil leave for another three years.
I was originally offered a 25 Sep class date. I bypassed, hoping to get a 767. I am now in the 22 Jan class; #3 in the class. I may be able to get a 767; maybe not. I don't care the domicile because I will be able to lateral to another domicile between now and spring 2009. The aircraft was the only reason why I chose to delay recall. If I don't get a 767, I will get a 737; I'll be hoping for a bump off of the 737 before I return to United - I figure that the 737 will be phased out in the next few years and replaced by all airbus aircraft.

If United picks up hiring, I'd also expect the seat freeze to disappear for those wishing to get off of LCO aircraft. I'm not counting on it, but I wouldn't be surprised to see you be able to carry your training committment forward. Otherwise, there will be 767s available to newhires. That will really torque off returning furloughees.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

I have a few questions for anyone "in the know".

1. Anybody have information on the seniority of the most junior line holders at the various domiciles and their hire dates? In particular, looking for IAD, ORD and JFK...but the others would be nice to know too!

2. How does the short-call/long call reserve work?

3. Are uniforms paid for? Do we get new ones upon return? I think my old uniform has shrunk quite a bit in the past four years. What about a uniform allowance and/or dry cleaning?

4. What is the pay during training?

5. Where do we stay while at TK?

6. Do we have to buy the leather jackets, or are they provided?

7. Is the PBS used for all fleets now? How do you bid (on the internet from home or on Unimatic)?

8. Is the retirement contribution now up to 16% in lieu of the next raise?

9. Does the 737 still fly out to the west coast?

10. Is Michael Richards crazy?

Thanks for all the help.

Looking for a class the middle of next year...or sooner!

GP

 

[Andy]

I'll take a stab at a few of them.

2. Log on to Ualmec.com and go to this thread: http://www.ualmec.com/showthread.php?t=1350
Go to post #41 from Brad Hunnewell and click on the link. It is fairly detailed. If you don't have access to ualmec.com, let me know & I'll PM you the document.

3. If you were not issued new uniforms prior to being furloughed, you'll get new ones at no cost. If you got a partial issue of new stuff, you'll get the remainder due to you. How did your old uniforms shrink?

4. It's based on your equipment bid. IIRC, it's 2.8 hrs/day, but don't quote me on that.

6. They're optional; you'll have to buy it.

8. Still being voted on. I'm hoping that they go with 16% contribution rather than a payraise.

9. SEA - good luck. :laugh: Also currently flies out of DEN, ORD, DCA.

 

[Huggyu2]

So the MEC wants to put the 1% into the retirement fund vice a pay raise. Why? I haven't seen anything explaining the advantages of this.
Caution: thread drift. If anyone answers this, maybe it should go onto a new thread.

 

[Peanut gallery]

Junior man is turned on for furloughed folks

Just go to the your ALPA website and click on the Furlough options the junior man data is current as of 9/2006 soon to be updated.

 

[ualgrizz]

So the MEC wants to put the 1% into the retirement fund vice a pay raise. Why? I haven't seen anything explaining the advantages of this.
Caution: thread drift. If anyone answers this, maybe it should go onto a new thread.

Taxes!

 

[Powda5]

Junior Pilot to Receive Recall Offer: Seniority #: 8516 Hire Date: 04/18/2001​

Anyone know if possibly that class date is off? Maybe 8516 was a Jan or Feb '01 class? I saw it on Skynet Lite and didn't think they had even gotten to 3/01 furloughees yet... ​

 

[Huggyu2]

I took a look at the ALPA 2006 Seniority list, and you are CORRECT! 8516 was hired 18 Feb 01. Looks like a big type on SkyNet.

 

[Gordo]

Word is the class sizes are increasing for Jan 22 and Feb 5. People in the Feb 5 are being moved up to Jan and additional people are being added to the Feb 5 class. The list should be exhausted for the first run through very soon.
Like I tell my kids, "Make good decisions."

 

[Andy]

The 5 Feb class has 20 pilots. Talked with DEN flight Ops yesterday. Was told they would get to me for a 2nd callcack in 2-3 months (#8015).

DUDE! I've kiilled too many brain cells; I don't remember ya. I'm 8004. Definitely not a wallflower during our classes.
I talked to Brett, 8003, not too long ago. He's been flying contract in sandland but will likely return. 8005, 'The Brain', will likely not return; he's flying for SWA.
Whatcha been up ta and how will I remember ya?

Frats,

Andy

 

[rudedog]

So the MEC wants to put the 1% into the retirement fund vice a pay raise. Why? I haven't seen anything explaining the advantages of this.
Caution: thread drift. If anyone answers this, maybe it should go onto a new thread.

Pro: Easier to negotiate a 1% pay raise later than a 1% increase in B Fund.
Tax deferred.

Con: 1% pay raise would result in .15% increase in B Fund, so total 1.15% raise. Hurts those who already max out retirement contribution.

 

[Puppy]

DUDE! I've kiilled too many brain cells; I don't remember ya. I'm 8004. Definitely not a wallflower during our classes.
I talked to Brett, 8003, not too long ago. He's been flying contract in sandland but will likely return. 8005, 'The Brain', will likely not return; he's flying for SWA.
Whatcha been up ta and how will I remember ya?

Frats,

Andy

Andy,
I was paired with Marcus during training (two retired AF guys matched up as FO-FO, trying to figure out the PF/PNF break-out of cockpit duties). It was a struggle. Marcus was the F-111 guy; I was the F-4 guy. I'm flying contract ops right now for the USAF; great job but limited benefits...thinking about saying "no" to the 2nd recall. Anxious to see what shakes out with the merger stuff...

Randy

 

[Andy]

Andy,
I was paired with Marcus during training (two retired AF guys matched up as FO-FO, trying to figure out the PF/PNF break-out of cockpit duties). It was a struggle. Marcus was the F-111 guy; I was the F-4 guy. I'm flying contract ops right now for the USAF; great job but limited benefits...thinking about saying "no" to the 2nd recall. Anxious to see what shakes out with the merger stuff...

Randy

I understand your dilemma. I'm going to take as much mil leave as possible - I plan on taking 6 years total. I'll have to return in '09 for a year due to the current AF Reserve rule which allows you to be on man days 1095 out of a 1460 day rolling calendar.

 

[pb4ufly]

I'm a 5 Mar 01 hire and just received a FedEx package from Elk Grove, IL, today...(4 Dec 06)

 

[hyflyt560]

I've heard the Jan and Feb classes will be split with about 50% 757/767. Any truth to the rumor. And, related to that, I wonder if when they start hiring, if the 3 year freeze might get reduced?!

Puppy, where are you flying contract ops...if you can say? I'm flying with the Army down in Bogota and we see a TON of various contract flying going on. Interesting place to say the least.

 

[Andy]

I've heard the Jan and Feb classes will be split with about 50% 757/767. Any truth to the rumor. And, related to that, I wonder if when they start hiring, if the 3 year freeze might get reduced?!

First Jan class - 20 with a 320/737 split.
22 Jan class - increased from 20 to 30. Even split of 767/320/737.
Future classes - Were supposed to be 20; we'll see. Likely heavy weighting with 767s.

Freeze - I wondered the same thing. Not unless ALPA forces the company to reduce the freeze by not allowing any newhires to go to international 767s. I'm not counting on any freeze reductions.
I'll be in the 22 Jan class, immediately going on mil leave. I deferred from the 25 Sep class. I was told a few weeks ago (before it went to 30) that I was #3 in the class. I'm probably around 8 or 9. I'll take a 767 on paper; no loss for anyone actually attending class.

For those keeping count, the 5 Feb class is the one that is currently being called. There are now less than 50 pilots who have not yet been offered recall. Expect the 5 Feb or second Feb class to be the bottom of the recall list.
We'll have to see how many accept recall on the last chance. No matter, I'll stick with my guess that United will see newhire classes fall 07.

 

[Puppy]

I've heard the Jan and Feb classes will be split with about 50% 757/767. Any truth to the rumor. And, related to that, I wonder if when they start hiring, if the 3 year freeze might get reduced?!

Puppy, where are you flying contract ops...if you can say? I'm flying with the Army down in Bogota and we see a TON of various contract flying going on. Interesting place to say the least.

Hyflyt560,
I'm at Tyndall AFB, flying MU-2s in support of Air Battle Manager schoolhouse (Weapons controllers). We fly 2v2 intercepts, with GCI help from student weapons controllers. Group of retired fighter pilots having fun.
Puppy

 

[hyflyt560]

Hyflyt560,
I'm at Tyndall AFB, flying MU-2s in support of Air Battle Manager schoolhouse (Weapons controllers). We fly 2v2 intercepts, with GCI help from student weapons controllers. Group of retired fighter pilots having fun.
Puppy

Man, I wish I would have "scored higher on the test!" You guys (AF, Navy, USMC) have all the fun...and the cool call signs and special terms. What do I get? PAT 123 is about it in the call-sign department. At least in the fixed wing world we're not wearing the 2-piece, cammo flight suit...yet.

John

PS Despite the joking, glad to be serving in the Army.

 

[Powda5]

Received recall via Fed Ex for 2/5/07. I am a 3/12/01 hire... believe it or not, still deciding!

 

[Gordo]

Received recall via Fed Ex for 2/5/07. I am a 3/12/01 hire... believe it or not, still deciding!

What seniority number are you? How many are left on the list?

 

[acroflyr]

With a March 12, 2001 DOH, that only leaves around 100 numbers left to the bottom of the list. They'll be going back up by the February or March classes.

 

[Andy]

What seniority number are you? How many are left on the list?

I've seen as low as 8611 offered 5 Feb class. 8655 is the ball.

 

[Powda5]

I'm 8555 EXACTLY 100 off the bottom......

 

[Guppydriver]

Does the 8655 include the guys that were terminated with recall rights? There were a group of guys that had not finished at TK or had not finished OE.

Guppy
2/5 recall class; LOA

 

[Huggyu2]

I don't know, but #8655 on the ALPA list was hired 6 August 01. In fact, there are 9 pilots on the list with a 6 Aug date. Since they are on the list, they are good to go. The class prior to them was July 9. I don't think there was a Sept class that actually showed up, so I would guess that this includes everyone.
I seem to remember that at UAL, it didn't matter if you had finished TK or OE. At AAL, however, I heard that it DID matter. Although I believe AAL said they would offer employment to these guys irrespective of their policy.