Latest on UAL recalls

[Yuppyguppy]

have not heard that

 

[Sonny Crockett]

I was just told by another UAL pilot that our freeze for recall has been dropped to 2 years. Has anyone else heard this? I've been away from my computer for a few days.

NOT YET but I think it is in the AIP.

BTW- My vote is a BIG FAT..........NO

I already gave enough....no mas!

 

[Yuppyguppy]

...NO!! to the AIP

 

[Andy]

The 36 month freeze does not change in the AIP. It does reduce maximum freezes to 48 months.

Why the opposition to the AIP? I don't see a lot of gives in it; the pilots are getting a LOT of takes.
Our leverage is that UAL is short pilots going into the summer. The company wants temporary relief in order to get through the summer. In exchange for the temporary relief, the LCO rules get thrown out.
I read the TA and think that it's reasonable. I'd like to hear why you guys are opposed to it.

 

[Sonny Crockett]

The 36 month freeze does not change in the AIP. It does reduce maximum freezes to 48 months.

Why the opposition to the AIP? I don't see a lot of gives in it; the pilots are getting a LOT of takes.
Our leverage is that UAL is short pilots going into the summer. The company wants temporary relief in order to get through the summer. In exchange for the temporary relief, the LCO rules get thrown out.
I read the TA and think that it's reasonable. I'd like to hear why you guys are opposed to it.

Oh-man where do I begin?

1. No pay raises.
2. Vacation still 2.8 a day
3. Floor raised to 65 hours instead of the 50
4. Increase in flying for all WB pilots
5. NO Furlough Longevity

THE LIST GOES ON AND ON....WHY SHOULD WE GIVE ANYTHING TO THESE BOZO's running this company?????




the COMPANY IS short. They want this so they will not have to put out more bids esp. in the Widebody fleets. I say we need to say NO!

I have GIVEN enough....NO MORE GIVE BACKS!

 

[Andy]

Oh-man where do I begin?

1. No pay raises.
2. Vacation still 2.8 a day
3. Floor raised to 65 hours instead of the 50
4. Increase in flying for all WB pilots
5. NO Furlough Longevity

THE LIST GOES ON AND ON....WHY SHOULD WE GIVE ANYTHING TO THESE BOZO's running this company?????

the COMPANY IS short. They want this so they will not have to put out more bids esp. in the Widebody fleets. I say we need to say NO!

I have GIVEN enough....NO MORE GIVE BACKS!

The only give back that you've listed is item #3, and that's been mitigated to allow people to drop trips down to 50 hours. ... there is a caveat; if you remain below 65 hrs, you will lose vacation time until you have 65 hrs of credit time.
There is no recourse for the company if you have no vacation time left; your line would remain below 65 hrs. And from what I've heard, the company has been forcing guys to sell back leave.

#1 - Minimum guarantee is increased by 5 hrs; I'd consider that to be a raise.
#2 - No change; remains the same whether or not the TA passes.
#4 - Increase in flying for WB pilots is temporary.
#5 - No change; remains the same whether or not the TA passes.

On the other hand, there are some MAJOR gains for the LCO. We can get those back now or use negotiating capital during C2010 to get the same work rules for the LCO and WB crews.

The only giveback that I see is #3, and that doesn't effect many pilots. I think that it would be very easy to get the floor lowered again when we go through a recession/decrease in block hours.

In all, I see this as a pretty good deal. And FWIW, I'm holding 767FO but will be on mil leave for another 5+ years.

 

[C5 Guy]

Unbelievable!!!!!!!!!!

AP
UAL CEO Paid $39.7M in 2006
Monday March 26, 7:28 pm ET
By Jeremy Herron, AP Business Writer

United Chairman, CEO Gets Compensation Worth $39.7 Million in First Year Out of Bankruptcy
NEW YORK (AP) -- The chairman, chief executive and president of UAL Corp., parent of United Airlines, received compensation worth $39.7 million in 2006, the company's first year as a standalone company after emerging from three years of bankruptcy protection.


The lion's share of Glenn Tilton's remuneration came in the form of stock and option awards granted in February, including an award the Chicago-based company valued at $20 million when it was issued Feb. 2, one day after UAL emerged from court-protected bankruptcy.


Tilton received subsequent awards worth about $18 million over the next four weeks. He was paid a base salary of $687,083, received $839,028 in non-equity incentive plan compensation and was granted other

 

[Huggyu2]

I realize that this is only a TA, and that full contract negotiations won't occur for a couple of more years. OK.
However, for me, raising the min from 50 to 65 hours is a bummer. I hope to have the flexibility to drop to 50 hours when (if) I come back.
I hope they address the issue of "what happens if you don't have vacation left, and you drop below 65 hours". Without it being layed out, I'd be curious to see what the company's expectations would be.

 

[Andy]

My bad. I should've read closer. If you don't have enough vacation time, you can't drop below 65 without company concurrence.
I see this as an easy takeback when the company needs to reduce block hours.

This is what's listed in the TA:



LOA 96-01 Schedule Flexibility

1-b No pilot will be permitted to drop a trip if it reduces the projected value of his line below fifty (50) credit hours, without Company concurrence.

For a pilot who completes the month with less than sixty-five (65) credit hours, as a result of pilot-initiated trip trading (including voluntary unpaid drops outside of the automated trip trading system), the minimum number of whole vacation days at 2.8 hours per day necessary to restore the pilot’s credit to at least sixty-five (65) hours will be reduced from his available vacation from his next year’s accrual. Next year’s accrual is that vacation
earned in the current year to be taken in the following year; except that any reduction made between December 1 and May 1 shall be reduced from vacation earned in the following vacation year.

For an unpaid leave that is preassigned, the sixty-five (65) hour threshold described above shall be reduced by 2.8 hours per day. For an unpaid leave that results in trip drop after line awards are published, the sixty-five (65) hour threshold described above shall be reduced on a one-for-one basis for any credit hours in the trip drop. For example, if a pilot is awarded an 80-hour line and drops a 16 hour trip, his 65 hour threshold is reduced by 16 hours to 49 credit hours.

If, from May 1 through November 30 of any year, a pilot’s vacation earned or to be earned in the current vacation year has six (6) days or fewer remaining, or if, during December 1 through April 30 of any year, a pilot’s vacation to be earned in the following vacation year has six (6) days or fewer remaining, the pilot will not be permitted to drop a trip if it reduces the projected value of his line below sixty-five (65) credit hours, without Company concurrence. This sixty-five (65) hour restriction will return to fifty (50) hours
on the following December 1st.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

How bout the 66.7% pay increase??

 

[Sonny Crockett]

How bout the 66.7% pay increase??

Exactly!

Tilton is getting his....and we get $%#@

 

[Sonny Crockett]

This pretty much sums it up....

I would agree with you IF it came with 1:3.5 rigs like DAL has AND 3:15 per day for vacation like DAL has. Going from lookback to 1:4 is no real prize at all. Allowing to go below 65 ONLY if we give vacation at 2.8 per day is COMPLETELY CONCESSIONARY along with just about every other aspect of this agreement. I don't think you grasp what we're saying here. It's not what we're getting rid of, it's what we're reverting to. You made the statement, "This has nothing to do with the 2.8. When we get 2.8 increased, this will increase too." Well, come back with a TA that has 2.8 increased. Come back with a TA that has 1:3.5. Do that and we're getting somewhere, then it's an agreement that both sides get and give. Right now we give and the company gets. Why? Because what we're reverting to is no better than what we have.

I agree that Skynet TT will determine trip trades from here on out and that it has nothing to do with this agreement. What I also know is that in the 33 years my father worked here the ONLY time he saw his quality of life deteriorate was when they went to 1:3.5 from 1:3. I also know that the only time I say my quality of life deteriorate (due to nothing I did) was when rigs deteriorated further to 1:4.

Although this agreement ALLOWS for more efficiency, it does not PENALIZE the company for being innefficient. Until I see that, I'm not giving them a thing.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

39.7mil where is my barf bag??

 

[Huggyu2]

I see this as an easy takeback when the company needs to reduce block hours.

Has there been an "easy takeback" in the last few years? If the company is pushing for this now, it's obviously a big issue for them. I do see the company's point: it keeps them from having to hire as many pilots, getting more productivity out of the ones they have. But that's probably one of the biggest QOL issues for me. I'd rather negotiate on other issues, not this one.

 

[Andy]

How bout the 66.7% pay increase??

That's not grounded in reality. Gotta take what you can get. We're getting some stuff permanently in exchange for (mostly) temporary gives.

 

[Andy]

Has there been an "easy takeback" in the last few years? If the company is pushing for this now, it's obviously a big issue for them. I do see the company's point: it keeps them from having to hire as many pilots, getting more productivity out of the ones they have. But that's probably one of the biggest QOL issues for me. I'd rather negotiate on other issues, not this one.

You can bet that the company will be more than willing to drop the floor back to 50 when we're fat on pilots. ... and that day will come again.

 

[Wino]

NO, they won't. You will never get that back.

They will simply recall/hire less, and it will be on a permanent basis. Career progression will stagnate, based on the fewer bodies.

Its a huge give, that you won't be able to get back, and it is MOST important for flexibility in people's lives. Now if they want to give the pay rates from the previous contract in return for that... well that is a different animal.

There is NO SUCH THING AS AN EASY GIVE. Everything that is "easy" is costing you something else.

There is no such thing as a TEMPORARY give either, just like taxes, once in place you never get rid of them. Don't believe me? Look at taxes on the turnpikes/bridges etc....

Wino

 

[Andy]

There is no such thing as a TEMPORARY give either, just like taxes, once in place you never get rid of them. Don't believe me? Look at taxes on the turnpikes/bridges etc....

So when it says in the TA that those temporary gives expire Oct 07, they really won't expire? Um, OK.

 

[Huggyu2]

So what does happen after Oct 07? Will there have to be a new TA?

 

[spinup]

No, that provision is in this TA.