Latest on skywest/Coex

[Skyward]

To all the SkyWest pilots who think that XJT pilots should have to interview you need to get over yourselves. You are not god’s gift to the airlines. Corporate culture, please. XJT pilots will have to interview and it will go something like this: Here’s your wings, training starts XX/XX/XX, nice to have you aboard. The reason XJT pilots will not have to formally interview is because that is what your management agreed to, so am I correct in assuming they don’t care as much about you precious corporate cultures as you.

 

[Mookie]

Skyward...

you don't get your wings here until after you pass.

by the way, the way the bidding looks, there are going to be plenty of guys already here wanting to go to IAH, so the x-jet guys will probably be sent somewhere else. just a heads up. California coast or IAH in the summer, tough call.

 

[mckpickle]

Ok now this crap has to stop.

1. Any flying that Skywest will do out of IAH is our flying that is being used in a semi whip-saw fassion. It is not flying that we USED to do. The flying to ILE for example was canceled this month to give the 90 day grace period to allow Skywest to move in. THESE ARE OUR ROUTES! WE built them up. We provided good customer service to OUR passengers and now WE are being replaced so that management may find a cheaper way. Just because you make more than our 120 rates means nothing. The aircraft are cheaper. I would have no problem with this if we were still taking all our jets and using them on new routes but we are not. The contracting out of our flying is CAUSING our pilots to be unemployed. Bottom line.

2. Since the above stated reason our pilots SHOULD be given FO seats. GIVEN, not offerend to interview. The situation is slightly diferent than furloughed AA pilot coming to you for work. Why aren't you willing to accept this. You guys are getting upgrades. You guys are getting new routes and growth. So whats the problem?

3. Some of our pilots WILL be a little slow in training. Many havent touched an airplane in 18 months. So you wanna screw them out of a job because YOUR part of the reason they are not working? Heck I dont fly for 2 weeks and I'm rusty. So dont judge lest ye be judged.

4. Now this is just some friendly advice and by no means a threat. Please don't take it as one. But your welcome in IAH is going to be lukewarm at best. Might I sugest that you don't pi$$ in your own pool by ailienating yourselves further. If you guys keep the up the

To make sure there is some commitment to be a reliable and dedicated employee.

or the..

To make sure there is no outspoken "sense of entitlement". Of all the personality traits I have dealt with as a pilot, this one gets on my nerves - fast

...retoric than you will start a fight and I dont think anyone wants that.

Be happy for the growth your getting and the captain seats. Lets work together to give CAL passengers the best product possible and employ some pilots. Keep talking like this and you will find yourselves taking a bite of our sh1t sandwich. And 90 people will not win against 600 really pi$$ed off Express guys.

 

[embdrvr]

The contracting out of our flying is CAUSING our pilots to be unemployed. Bottom line.

Pickle,
I'm confused. I thought mainline flowback caused most of your furloughs. Which is it? 300 guys on the street due to loss of flying to four cities formerly served by EMB's or poorly negotiated flowback?

 

[Bako Cap]

You guys are funny,

1. I guarantee all CoX furloughs will have to do a FULL interview.

2. I think all CoX furloughs will want to resign their seniority.

3. I believe that all CoX furloughs will be some of the most motivated individuals at Skywest.

4. I know that all Cox furloughs will recieve a very warm welcome from all of us at Skywest.

5. I know that none will want to go back.

I've worked for other Union airlines and I'll tell you that management has figured out that they can do what they want when they want. Go ahead grieve it, they don't care. What, are you guys going to do? strike? because your guys had to do a little, totally straightforward interview. This is a nonevent. Quit making such a big deal about it. Move on.

Your folks are going to love it here and will be well taken care of.

As far as "your old routes", it stings a little at first (like the first time I saw Comair in SLC) but you will get used to it. Hub diversification is the regional/major airline management wave of the future. Nothing we can do about it. If you plan to take out your emotions on fellow pilots who have no say in the process, you're a weak minded fool. Grow up.

 

[skywestdrvr]

CALM DOWN MCPICKLE!!!

You need to relax. People that are working for SkyWest that are posting on this board are only communicating what our VP of Flight Ops Brad Holt communicated to the SkyWest Pilot group. That was that all of your pilots would be interviewed like any other pilot has been interviewed. I sure hope you don't walk into the interview process with your current attitude if the process is what we are being told. You won't last long enough to sit down.

I and everyone else on this board also have seen what you have posted about what your union reps have said. You and Skyward are really getting heated up over this. The tone of your posts are very confrontational to say the least, especially talking about fights in IAH. I don't think that is very professional at all. We are not Freedom Airlines or anything of the like. We just take pride in our airline and what we have here. I am not trying to say that you don't have pride in yours so lets not go there.

If it was your flying then your company would have pulled out your brasilias and had you guys flying them. It is not your flying. We have also put up with that kind of stuff over here on the west coast with air wisconsin. They took over some of our routes but we didn't threaten fights and stuff like that anywhere in our system. But the routes aren't really ours if you see the big picture. United did that.

Continental wanted someone flying those routes and I don't know why your company isn't flying it. They got rid of the props and maybe they didn't want them back. Don't act like SkyWest owes you anything. Take your argument someplace else. SkyWest didn't kick you off those routes. Your company chose to get rid of props and look where that left your company. If you don't like what your company does, apply elsewhere. I have a good friend who is based in SBP that worked for COEX and now is very happy at SkyWest. He has some seniority built up and it seems you are wasting time waiting to be called back and that upsets you.

Make a move. Quit being mad at everyone else and be responsible for what you have chosen to do in life. Your life is the result of the decisions you have made. The same goes for my life and everyone elses.

I am not trying to be confrontational at all. I just am trying to get the point across to you that we have been told one thing and your pilots have been told another. We believe our people and you believe yours. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Just don't threaten fights and offer nibbles of your sh1t sandwich.

And 90 people will not win against 600 really pi$$ed off Express guys.

Sounds like you are representing 600 really pi$$ed off Express guys. Don't ruin it with that attitude. Our interview people watch these boards. Take that for what it's worth. I wish you the best but please don't let this get out of hand.

 

[mckpickle]

First let me ask you a question. If you had been a wholly owned and help to build the "Brand" you fly for would it make you feel any different? I suspect it would. We have been sold off and shafted. Flowbacks have caused us to loose some pilots but we would have more back now if WE were doing the flying that CAL wants to farm out.

Now I understand we are both getting different info from our respective companies/unions. WHat is really pi$$ing me off here is the Skywest guys attitude. You guys are getting a whole lota somin' fo nuttin. Try to be a little sensitive to the fact that in this race to the bottom we are getting the shaft here and you guys adamantly upset that we might not have to go through the same interview that you had is silly. Plus all the interview advise and telling us the "no one is going to leave Skywest to go back when recalled" Come on get over yourselves.

Now this crap doesn't effect me at all. I am in the top 25% at express. I have a guaranteed spot at CAL. What bothers me is the "brand" management. Management is doing it and you guys could really give a sh1t. All you care about is making sure a bunch of express guys have to go through the same process to be worthy to sit in one of your airplanes. Get the FUK over it. I have tried to be civil here but every time I ask a LEGITIMATE question some skywest jacka$$ wants to argue over whos flying it is. And to just tell us its not ours. Well until a year ago my paycheck said CONTINENTAL AIRLINES.

Like I said your welcome will be lukewarm at best. And these attitudes are going to REALLY pi$$ us off. So relax with your bad selves and try to be a bit accommodating. Don't walk into someone's home and tell them how much better your house is and that mine is trailor park.

I would understand if just one or two guys felt this way. But it seems like many Skywest guys who post here are militant and I have no idea why. Throw us a freakin bone here.

 

[JBcrjca]

Very well said, Skywestdrvr. Mckpickle and Skyward keep bringing up the same old arguments time and time again. "OUR FLYING", and "we won't interview", etc. Maybe someday it will sink in that Xjet doesn't own that flying and that interviews are needed to weed out the bad attitudes. SkyWest pilots don't think they're 'Gods gift to the airlines' as Skyward put it...but with hostile attitudes like those two have, I'd rather not see them work here. But for the nice guys with a good attitude, welcome aboard! As far as who to believe, it's a matter of he said/she said...but I tend to believe what our VP of Operations has stated rather than believe what some union reps are saying. We're just beating our heads against the wall here, really. Just my humble opinion.

If anyone has a bad attitude, it seems to be a select few Xjet guys, not the SkyW guys. Granted, a few SkyW guys have made some cocky-sounding posts. But militant?? Again, I'd point the finger at the select few Xjet guys. Mckpickle is the one making veiled threats about 90 vs 600...now who's the militant one? Cripes, we all need to go out and get a life, step away from the computers.

 

[hawkowl88]

just the beginning

I had a management type in my jumpseat the other day who strongly hinted that the IAH Emb120 flying is just the beginning. Apparently CAL mainline has hinted to Skywest they aren't very happy with their current arrangement. Since the current contract is up in 2004? Skywest may have the opportunity to grab the entire route structure. Then who's flying will it be??

Enjoy.

 

[OOramperpilot]

My $.02 worth.

Okay, I'm just a bag slinger right now building my time so my caveat is "what do I know." But this is what I've heard from our crews and internal pubs from our management.

Please, any of you OO guys that know something I don't, chime in here. I talk to a lot of crews based on my desire to get into the right seat of one of the beautiful Brazilain babies (sorry, I may be crazy but I think the EMB has sexier lines the the CRJ, just my opinion) but.....

If you work for XJT, you will have a normal full on interview, and based on the results, if you get hired, you will get tacked on to the bottom of the list. Standard practice here is that you resign your seniority number when you come to work for us, but it's been pretty clear that will not be the case for XJT guys. I'm just telling what I have read and heard.

It will not be a meet and greet, here's your wings, kiss on the left cheek, kiss on the right cheek, sign of the cross and you are on your way into one of our birds interviews. Study our gouge, come with a good attitude, and you will do fine. You will be welcomed with open arms, given the inermost darkest secrets of our best overnights, and I promise you, on my ramp, get a bug wash and lav dump on every turn plus a sample of our snack baskets that I secreted away just for you.

Contrary to popular belief, in my opinion, our crews are some of the best I have ever met. They don't hold grudges, for the most part don't have time to deal with politics in their quality of life, and are very non judgemental. They evaluate you as a person based on what kind of face you put forward to them.

As for the "we own this flying" question, well I just go by whose tags are on the bags to determine that. Pretty please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't all the flying that has been proposed to SkyWest been flying that is no longer done by XJT? I'm asking here just to be educated, not to stir the pot.

I do know that when we did CO flying before ( and if you are unaware, we were CO Connection in Lax for just over a year around '96) it was a very good experience for me. The CO ground folks I dealt with on various issues were extremely polite, and willing to politely educate us on the way CO does things, and it was a mighty refreshing experience after being treated like a red headed stepchild by Delta ground folks.

Bottom line is, I look forward to seeing some of you XJT guys on my ramp. I love the difference in perspective and being given the opportunity to be exposed to a different way of viewing things.

I love you man!

OOramperpilot

 

[NEDude]

To all the Skywest pilots:

If you keep reading these boards, you will get the impression that you will not be welcomed by the XJT pilots. Here at Commutair a lot of us read the same rhetoric about us showing up in CLE - "Those used to be our routes...You're expanding at our expense...you will not be welcomed here...that is our flying...etc". Realize that what you read on the boards represents a VERY small minority. Our experience in CLE over the last few months indicates that XJT pilots really are a pretty good bunch. We have been treated well by them and have had no problems. Mainline guys have been great as well. The problems XJT pilots have is with their management, not with us. Most of them know that. Most of them also realize that the reason they have guys on the street is not because of management, Commutair or Skywest, it is because of their flow-through agreement that they wanted in their contract.

Anyway, do not get too worked up about what a few disgruntled people say. I don't think you will have any problems with starting service in IAH. Also - welcome to the Continental Connection family.

 

[trans2fly]

Wow, there definitely are some heated elements here. I hope that the SKYW folk who go to IAH aren't gonna be greeted like mpickle says, that wouldn't speak well for XJet. But whatever...

Couldn't y'all XJet types direct your anger where it belongs, at your management? The flying SKYW will be doing is AT RISK and is flying that y'all don't do anymore. Therefore, to say that you don't have to interview doesn't make sense. To say that it's "your" flying also doesn't make sense, your management gave it up. Being given a preferential interview should be looked on as favorable under this scenario, dontcha think?

Bluto and Bjet- talked with my buddy again yesterday and he said that only 6 or 7 FO's have bid for IAH. With the 45 number having been thrown around here for crews there, I would think that any XJet types who pass the interview will soon be flying outta IAH. Just FYI...

 

[145EXR]

"I had a management type in my jumpseat the other day who strongly hinted that the IAH Emb120 flying is just the beginning. Apparently CAL mainline has hinted to Skywest they aren't very happy with their current arrangement. Since the current contract is up in 2004? Skywest may have the opportunity to grab the entire route structure. Then who's flying will it be??

Enjoy."



interesting....3 members of the board of directors of cal are on the xjet board of directors,,,in addition cal is selling most of the xjet stock to cal stockholders,,,all the cal publications commend xjet on making regional airline of the year....i would not take too much from your management type that was in your jumpseat...in addtion xjet has exclusive rights to jet feed till 2006, not 2004.


after 2006 im sure there will be other jet aircraft in our hubs, but since cal has signed the leases to xjet on 274 145s, with options for 100more, i doubt they are gonna dump xjet completely.

 

[Bjet Driver]

Bluto and Bjet- talked with my buddy again yesterday and he said that only 6 or 7 FO's have bid for IAH. With the 45 number having been thrown around here for crews there, I would think that any XJet types who pass the interview will soon be flying outta IAH. Just FYI...

Trans-

Thanks for the update. If I do end up with you folks, it looks like I may have to commute. IAH would be best bet, but anything works for me.


As far as interviewing goes, we can only wait and see. But I'm sure many XJT guys will have the same attitude as mine.............

I'm not pissed off about having to interview. I will do that.

We just want to be back in the skies.........

 

[KFFA]

mckpickle,

What are your feelings about flying for a non-union airline? You need to talk to some Comair and ASA dudes about sharing hubs. Its not easy at first but deal with it. If you can't stand us there in IAH and you and your buddy's do things to screw with us and compromise my passengers then we will have to meet out back JK I am only kidding!!! But really, this indusrty it not the same as it was 2 years ago. You guys thought that this would never happen to you but now that Commutair and now us are starting to move in well its time to grow up and say welcome to IAH. We have done it for Comair and ASA in SLC. How come I remember some of you guys bragging a few months ago and how great it was to be all Jet??? By the way we really are nice guys and gals, we have great looking fa's and we really have pride in our company.

 

[Fred_IP]

Updated bid numbers

Bluto and Bjet- talked with my buddy again yesterday and he said that only 6 or 7 FO's have bid for IAH.

Just for those keeping count:

The bid closed Sunday night, May 25. The count as of Friday, May 23, from the Skywest EMB Captain upgrade/transfer list, is about 19 who request "ANY" for a domicile and about 16 who want to specifically go to IAH. So that's 35 for the 44 or so Captain slots opening at IAH. That said, there will be a handful of the "ANY" guys who might change their mind if offered IAH and get seat locked for 6 months. And some of the IAH guys are transfers, not true upgrades.

In the end, I would suspect about 30 of the IAH Captain positions to be current Skywest Pilots (mostly FO upgrades from the CRJ). The remainder of the 14-ish Captain and all FO positions will be Skywest poolies and COEX pilots. It's anyone's guess as to who be Captains first ("off the street"), although I woud expect experience in the EMB or significant PIC hours might give one an edge at the remaining 14 or so Captain positions.

So once the EMB positions are filled, then the remainder of the COEX and poolies will be going to the CRJ as FO's. Skywest is still looking to gain 2-3 CRJs per month through Feb 04. Beyond that, it's anyone's guess, but I would suspect Skywest to continue to grow with 70 or 90 seat CRJs, perhaps 737s in some markets.

There are EMB classes in June and July, and more afterwards (dates unknown). The first class in early June will have approx. 10 students in it. The goal is to have approximately 35 crews in place by October. By December, there will be approximately 44 crews there.

Good luck to all. And to all COEX guys coming to Skywest -- keep a chin up and keep a positive attitude. Good luck to those poolies too. It'll be worth the wait!

Fred

 

[Obi-Wan]

I understand that the Xjet guys are bitter that SKywest is flying routes they used to. Used to being the key words. It is what it is...

Some people are and they should be, not because its skywest but as the result of our flying going to another company. You will be angry as well when Comair does additional expansion in the west and Mesa gets more UAL routes. That’s just wave of the future. As far as Skywest doing more flying for CAL in the future, there is a definite possibility. There is also a strong possibility of Coex doing flying for DAL and NWA. Skywest people are not going to get the cold shoulder in IAH and express is not losing all its flying. CAL is very happy with our product and has expanded the contract to 2006 and will renew in the future. This whole pissing contest on the net is nothing new. As far as the interviews go, we will see. I have two friends in the pool that got the job without doing the sim. I'm sure it’s up to Skywest mgt to decide how the interview process will go. We just have to wait and see.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Hey,
Your flying, our flying their flying, some flying, BLA,BLA,BLA.
You really need to get over this feeling of entitlement for your own good. You, me and every other pilot gets paid by the hour. Your company makes money, do you get paid more than your contract allows for? Your company looses money do you get paid leaa than the contract?
The above "FLYING" is owned by the company and it's shareholders, period, dot, end of sentence. I do not care personally where the pax comes from, nor do I care where they go. That is between the company and them.
I can tell you for a fact that if you come to SKYW with a good attitude you will do well. If you come with a bad attitude and slip by the interview/meet greet process, you will still have to do probationary pilot evals and a whole year is a long time to fake a good attitude. I know for a fact that just completing a year is no guarantee of keeping your job, your evals by line CPTS as well as your off prob P.C. then interview with your chief pilot must be successfully completed. We are not afraid of letting people who are not fitting into the "culture" go find a more suitable place of employment after a year.
In summary:
Good attitude-Welcome
Bad attitude-You are wasting your time.
OLA
PBR

 

[trans2fly]

Re: Updated bid numbers

The bid closed Sunday night, May 25.

In the end, I would suspect about 30 of the IAH Captain positions to be current Skywest Pilots (mostly FO upgrades from the CRJ). The remainder of the 14-ish Captain and all FO positions will be Skywest poolies and COEX pilots.

There are EMB classes in June and July, and more afterwards (dates unknown). The first class in early June will have approx. 10 students in it. The goal is to have approximately 35 crews in place by October. By December, there will be approximately 44 crews there.

Fred [/B]

Hey Fred- I got an e-mail from my friend at OO; the bid actually closes Tuesday morning, and it is expected that more bids will have come in by then. Definitely not "all FO positions" will be poolies and COEX pilots, as at least 7 have bid IAH already. The next EMB classes are scheduled for July, not June, though your size number is correct. From what I hear, all captain positions will be SKYW types, as the opportunity to upgrade will be too attractive, and the majority of the FOs will be Coex.

As others have said, we'll see...

 

[Fred_IP]

I got an e-mail from my friend at OO; the bid actually closes Tuesday morning, and it is expected that more bids will have come in by then. Definitely not "all FO positions" will be poolies and COEX pilots, as at least 7 have bid IAH already. The next EMB classes are scheduled for July, not June, though your size number is correct. From what I hear, all captain positions will be SKYW types, as the opportunity to upgrade will be too attractive, and the majority of the FOs will be Coex.

You're right about the bid close. It WAS to end on Sunday, but I think they extended it late last week because of the holiday. It will be announced Thursday at noon -- two days later than was in the original message from Skywest. Also, I did NOT look at the FO bid list -- yes, 5 of them want to go to IAH.

Like I said, about 35 Skywest pilots currently desire and are qualified to upgrade/transfer to IAH. Skywest needs 44 crews in IAH. To fill the 9 or so remaining left seats, Skywest management will probably then evaluate its remaining Skywest pilots. Management will determine on a case by case basis to see who's MOST qualified to waive certain requirements to upgrade into the left seat. For example, if they have an FO who has 2000 total hours with 500 in the EMB, they might waive their 1000-hour "in type" requirement. Then they MIGHT hire Captains "off the street," to fill any open Captain position, if the candidate is exceptionally qualified. But I would think SKW would prefer to make Captains out of their own pilots.

As far as class dates, actually, there is a class scheduled for June 16, then July 2. I would think they need to add several more classes to meet the goal of 35 crews by October.

There's also CRJ classes June 2, June 11, June 19 and July 24, for inquiring minds who want to know.

Fred