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Latest DAL/NWA arbitration debates

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jetflier

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Posts
718
As you are aware, the DAL proposal calls for a separate aircraft type for the DC9 FOs.

For me, the highlight of the day was Mr. Katz last questions for a DAL rep. It went something like this;

Katz: Captain ________, you are an MD88 captain. Is that correct?

DAL Rep: That is correct, sir.

Katz: What does it say on your license?

DAL Rep: A310, B767/757, Uh......DC-9.
 
It really is no big deal it is the way the handle aircraft that are the same type but with big differences.
We do the same thing with the 767-400 and the 767,757,767-300ER.
We also did the same with the 737-200, 737-300 and the 737-800.
DAL feels that going from a DC-9 to a MD-88 or 90 leg to leg would be too much. I agree.
 
What's the point. The 737 is a common type rating but the 737-200 paid less than the -300 and a whole lot less than the -800. Same type rating though.
 
The 75/76 pays the same...but the sizes are much different.....Sounds like the DC9 drivers are getting treated differently.....
 
The 75/76 pays the same...but the sizes are much different.....Sounds like the DC9 drivers are getting treated differently.....

So are the MD-88 drivers, the MD-90 pays more, so are the 747-200 drivers, the 747-400 pays more. Some one call a lawyer, I smell a lawsuit.:laugh:
 
Yeah, the -9's should be a separate bid. NO reason to jump from ship-to-ship. I think airlines have typically separated that type.

When DAL had -9's in the past, had they started top operate the '88's? DAL may have already had both on property. If so, were they separate?
 
The 75/76 pays the same...but the sizes are much different.....Sounds like the DC9 drivers are getting treated differently.....

Yep, you'd better notify your buddies. This has millions written all over it for you. Plus, it may land you on the Delta list. Why not try?
 
I think that even the FAA would have issues with you going from a non-FMC platform to a FMC platform, leg by leg. There is a lot of issues with that.
 
-9/-88 transition

When DAL had -9's in the past, had they started top operate the '88's? DAL may have already had both on property. If so, were they separate?

Same type rating, but they were always separate categories, and only instructors maintained currency in both. When we first got the -88, it wasn't really "glass". FMS wasn't ready for installation yet, so the CRT screens only worked in arc and rose modes. After installation, only LNAV was authorized, and after a while, VNAV was given the OK.
 
As you are aware, the DAL proposal calls for a separate aircraft type for the DC9 FOs.

For me, the highlight of the day was Mr. Katz last questions for a DAL rep. It went something like this;

Katz: Captain ________, you are an MD88 captain. Is that correct?

DAL Rep: That is correct, sir.

Katz: What does it say on your license?

DAL Rep: A310, B767/757, Uh......DC-9.

The cockpits are pretty different, even to someone who has never flown either. I guess the 742 and the 744 are the same too, right? Was this really a highlight? Maybe for you guys. I thought our guy RH did a great job comparing the the 767ER to the A330. Essentially he looked at old records, found out Airbus based the A330 off of the 767-300ER, and looked a Delta specs to see what missions our 76ERs do vs how NWA used the A330, and even looked at how many ultra long haul crewed flights we had vs NWA. A lot of your A330 flights have two man crews, whereas most of our 76ER flights have 3 man crews, and some have 4 man crews (none of yours do). Shouldn't than mean something? Maybe you aren't using your A330s to their max ability? Then, he looked at our pay scales on each pre-DCC. Wow, I think they are identical...... hopefully the arbitrators do too...the A333 is a bit bigger, but it looks like the missions are the same....(thanks to you guys not using it the way it could be used, more often)



Delta's B-767 ER and Northwest A-330 are
11 identical aircraft based on real world data."

Again, the first article,
6 rather than go through the whole thing on page
7 two of the article, it is exhibit page three.
8 It just talks about how when Airbus was
9 designing the A-330-200 model, that it was
10 targeted at the Boeing 767 ER whose range
11 capability was greater than any previous
12 Airbus twin-engine aircraft.

So that when Airbus was designing
14 the airplane, they were designing it to
15 compete with the 767 ER.

A. Right. The bottom line is that the
9 767 average rate is $171.70. For the A-330
10 it's 163.50. And again both within the same
11 neighborhood of each other

So we asked Delta management as
9 they were coming up with the combined schedule
10 that was going to come into effect, I think
11 the first load is in January, what performance
12 data did they use to try to figure out which
13 airplane can accomplish which route.
14 So they gave us a list that is
15 displayed on page 11. And what they gave us
16 was the actual seat count of the aircraft and
17 the range that's based on a full passenger
18 load with appropriate payload corrections
19 based on the mission.
20 Q.


the maximum seat count multiplied by the
3 maximum range to come up with a maximum
4 available seat mile for the airplane.
5 Again, the chart raw data is shown
6 there as it came from Delta management


And obviously we've highlighted
3 there the four legs that Delta does that are
4 double augmented flights. And the A-330 does
5 not do any double augmented flying.
6 As you go down the list for
7 Northwest, you see at the very bottom they do
8 fly the A-330 as part of the Norita hub on
9 shorter range legs that have two pilot crews.
10 When we get to the bottom of the
11 page for the 767 ER, we are still looking at
12 9.9 or 10 hour legs that require three crew
13 numbers.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Last edited:

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