Latest at Flexjet?

[Nolife]

That's one thing I always hated about the last day rules. First of all it should be "get you home in 14 hrs." Second, forced OT due to a long duty day and not enough flights to get you home should result in OT pay and a compensatory day off. Also if you're getting home before midnight but beyond 16 hrs you should get OT pay and still be able to continue home. It's not the pilot's fault ops planned your last day so tight.

I heard form several guys I've met on the road that forced OT on go home days are up this year.

Flex is still a great job but it could always be better and more equitable for pilots. We need more bases.

 

[ArtVandalay]

I won't say I'm against more bases but, it won't solve any problems; for the company that is... More bases just means someone in the office will have to think harder and actually plan something when it comes to airlining home. They can't even get us good airline now with only a handful of bases, I can't imagine what would happen if we had 25.

The bottom line is that they will ONLY open a new base if it benefits them, not us.

 

[johnsonrod]

Open up more bases after the furloughees are recalled and you will attract better pilots when growth comes down the road. There are plenty of highly-qualified pilots living on the West Coast who don't want to commute to Denver.

Do you guys have any new aircraft (or replacement aircraft) arriving this year or next?

 

[Flex-ible]

Do you guys have any new aircraft (or replacement aircraft) arriving this year or next?

Next new product is the Lear 85 in 2012 or 2013.

There are plenty of unsold shares on the planes they already have - several of which seem to be mothballed. Hopefully there will be enough business to get more of those back this year.

Bombardier just announced net biz jet sales for the last quarter: 6. Worldwide. A lousy six planes! So much for the economic recovery.

 

[DUATS]

The bottom line is that they will ONLY open a new base if it benefits them, not us.

So another hypothetical.

CAB (or whatever it's called now): We want more bases, and better first and last day rules.

MGMT: OK, you can have 5 more bases, first day start times no earlier than 0600 (instead of 0500), and last day no more than 14 hours (instead of 16) and we'll get you home by 2300 (instead of 0000).
But in exchange, no more four day rotations. 5-6-7 days only.

Whatcha think of that?

 

[DirtyBeech]

Next new product is the Lear 85 in 2012 or 2013.

There are plenty of unsold shares on the planes they already have - several of which seem to be mothballed. Hopefully there will be enough business to get more of those back this year.

Bombardier just announced net biz jet sales for the last quarter: 6. Worldwide. A lousy six planes! So much for the economic recovery.

Maybe we should get into the Census business. Lots of jobs in that I hear.

 

[ArtVandalay]

So another hypothetical.

CAB (or whatever it's called now): We want more bases, and better first and last day rules.

MGMT: OK, you can have 5 more bases, first day start times no earlier than 0600 (instead of 0500), and last day no more than 14 hours (instead of 16) and we'll get you home by 2300 (instead of 0000).
But in exchange, no more four day rotations. 5-6-7 days only.

Whatcha think of that?

Like I said, I could care less about bases so, you're dangling that in front of the wrong person. Secondly, you're asking me about things that will never happen so, why should I answer to a no one? Are you assuming I don't like 6 or 7 day rotations?? How do you know I'm not working 7 now by "choice"??? This cat isn't buying what you're not selling.

 

[DUATS]

Like I said, I could care less about bases so, you're dangling that in front of the wrong person. Secondly, you're asking me about things that will never happen so, why should I answer to a no one? Are you assuming I don't like 6 or 7 day rotations?? How do you know I'm not working 7 now by "choice"??? This cat isn't buying what you're not selling.

You are right, I'm not selling; I'm just making the point that Flex mgmt doesn't have to do anything - and won't do anything - unless they get something back. I know some guys who love the 4 day trips, and would probably not want to trade them for anything.

If Flex ever got a union (which I don't think is going to happen) the supporters would probably be surprised that they can't just walk in with a list of demands and walk out with exactly what they want.

 

[Nolife]

If Flex ever got a union (which I don't think is going to happen) the supporters would probably be surprised that they can't just walk in with a list of demands and walk out with exactly what they want.

You miss the point of unionizing. It not," I want more bases so lets form a union." The point is to have a seat at the table that management has to respect. Of course it's a give and take but right now its all take and no give with respect to a few details of the working conditions.

BTW... I talked to an options guys last week and he said since the contract was signed management/labor relations have been good.

 

[DUATS]

You miss the point of unionizing. It not," I want more bases so lets form a union." The point is to have a seat at the table that management has to respect. Of course it's a give and take but right now its all take and no give with respect to a few details of the working conditions.

BTW... I talked to an options guys last week and he said since the contract was signed management/labor relations have been good.

Nolife, I think we agree. But I am pointing out my belief that some guys think it WOULD BE all take and no give if there was a union. If mgmt and employees work together, with or without a union, the company is better off. Right now, there seems to be sentiment that Flex mgmt is not working with the employees. If that sentiment grows, perhaps a union drive will be successful in the future and the seat at the table will be forced upon management.

In my opinion, Management would be wise to give the employees a real voice at the table - to strengthen the company, expand the business, and perhaps bring back some of the 85 sooner rather than later.

 

[Praetorian]

So another hypothetical.

CAB (or whatever it's called now): We want more bases, and better first and last day rules.

I think it's so funny you think this "CAB" of yours is going to bargain on your behalf.:laugh:

Oh, and with a first contract it is all take, since you have nothing your management can't take away at the stroke of an email now.

 

[Nolife]

Nolife, I think we agree. But I am pointing out my belief that some guys think it WOULD BE all take and no give if there was a union. If mgmt and employees work together, with or without a union, the company is better off. Right now, there seems to be sentiment that Flex mgmt is not working with the employees. If that sentiment grows, perhaps a union drive will be successful in the future and the seat at the table will be forced upon management.

In my opinion, Management would be wise to give the employees a real voice at the table - to strengthen the company, expand the business, and perhaps bring back some of the 85 sooner rather than later.

I agree with you however I do want more bases so lets form a union.:beer:

 

[netjetwife]

You miss the point of unionizing. It not," I want more bases so lets form a union." The point is to have a seat at the table that management has to respect. I took the liberty of highlighting that because it's spot on! Of course it's a give and take but right now its all take and no give with respect to a few details of the working conditions. And isn't likely too change without the pilots taking the initiative, unfortunately.

BTW... I talked to an options guys last week and he said since the contract was signed management/labor relations have been good.

NJA folks saw the same thing start happening in 2005, with steady progress after the contract was signed. It all goes back to RESPECT, but I don't think it's a matter of having to. It is just a natural by-product of standing up for your rights, showing that you have other skills (such as negotiating) aside from flying the planes, and demonstrating your talent at organizing big projects like a card drive. And that's just the beginning. If you end up with contract directed joint committees then your pilotgroup's abilities can really shine! You can have the reward of directly participating in the projects, programs, decisions etc that affect your career and family life. And enjoy the respect that comes from working with the company as partners.

Regardless of the path you guys choose, I wish you and your families well.
NJW

 

[Dooker]

NJA folks saw the same thing start happening in 2005, with steady progress after the contract was signed. It all goes back to RESPECT, but I don't think it's a matter of having to. It is just a natural by-product of standing up for your rights, showing that you have other skills (such as negotiating) aside from flying the planes, and demonstrating your talent at organizing big projects like a card drive. And that's just the beginning. If you end up with contract directed joint committees then your pilotgroup's abilities can really shine! You can have the reward of directly participating in the projects, programs, decisions etc that affect your career and family life. And enjoy the respect that comes from working with the company as partners.

Regardless of the path you guys choose, I wish you and your families well.
NJW

That all sounds great, but so much work. Is there like a website or an app or something where we can just fill in all the junk we want and then just submit it and then it forms a union for us? Maybe something like Turbotax, except for unions?

If there isn't something like that then somebody should make one. That'd be killer.

 

[netjetwife]

Well unfortunately it's not that easy... But rest assured there are pilots w/leadership skills who will answer when the call goes out. After all we're talking about a group of professionals who are widely viewed as problem solvers with a well-deserved reputation for facing challenges head-on. That further explains why management comes to respect an organized pilotgroup and finds that it is, indeed, not only entirely possible to form a good working relationship with the pilots---but more advantageous to all involved in the long run.